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[Virgilijus]

You have to remember that the other two are also wise men. Their actions and inactions speak volumes to the third.

 

[Delphiki]

Spoiler

All three men know that there are not two white hats. And so if any man can see a white hat he knows his own hat is blue. When Man A reaches this conclusion, he knows that neither Man B nor C can see a white hat.

And so Man A knows his own hat is blue.

 

[SideEffect001]

im back!! dont replace me!! im tired so ill catch up later ok!

 

[ixnayonthehombre]

13 People...3 or more of whom are Mafia or Independant.
We technically could afford to lynch off an inactive to prove ZMan's role, but I would be against it. On a Day 6, we really should be trying to lynch Mafia.
Vote:Tahj-Mach Ligolski also has a vote on him. Hopefully we can get a claim out of him...and secure one more person.

 

[Blind]

Spoiler

The wise man declares that his hat is white. Below is the long drawn out explanation as to why, and it gets kind of convoluted.

He knows that at least one person must have a blue hat, and sees two blue hats on other people's heads. This means his hat must be white. If his hat were blue, the other two men would be unable to conclude that their own hats were blue, and they would have to guess, defeating the purpose of the competition.

First off, the king said EITHER white or blue. Meaning that there has to be a white one. Since I could just be playing semantics here, I'm going to offer that as an alternative answer. Below is the one with a bit more thought involved.

In order to determine who is the wisest, the king would have to put the three on equal footing somehow. Otherwise, it would be a silly contest. If I asked three people to run a race to see who was the fastest, and started two of them off 100 meters from the goal and one of them 5 meters from it, it'd be dumb, right?

In order for them to be on equal footing, he must have a white hat. If he has a white hat, the other men will see a white hat and a blue hat. They, consequently, will conclude that their own hats must be blue.

This is because:

If I see a white hat and a blue hat and I have a white hat, that means that the guy with the blue hat has an unfair advantage. He would see two white hats and immediately know his was blue. This wouldn't prove him to be wiser than the other two, it'd just be idiotic. Therefore, my own must be blue in order that this contest make any sense at all.

So, in order for the other two men to have a line of reasoning that leads to them having blue hats, the first man (the unknown) must have a white hat.

Umm... jeez. I think I made that harder than it was supposed to be.

 

[Virgilijus]

Delphiki, you're close.

Blind, you are closer than you know. Though there doesn't necessarily have to be a white hat; only one blue is mandatory (though in this case it's atleast two).

I also have another good riddle after this one...

 

[Wave⁂]

yeah, ive heard the had riddle before, but the game/competition isnt eaxaclty fair....

 

[digitalmaster287]

I think I got it

Is it that the person who saw the blue hats (Man A) knew that if Man B saw a white and a blue hat, then after a while of thinking, Man B could conclude that since Man C didn't say anything, that his hat is blue because if Man C saw 2 white hats, then he would immediately call that his was blue. Since Man B did not do this, then it is clear that neither of the others saw a white and a blue hat and therefore, Man A's hat must be white.

 

[Virgilijus]

I think I got it

Is it that the person who saw the blue hats (Man A) knew that if Man B saw a white and a blue hat, then after a while of thinking, Man B could conclude that since Man C didn't say anything, that his hat is blue because if Man C saw 2 white hats, then he would immediately call that his was blue. Since Man B did not do this, then it is clear that neither of the others saw a white and a blue hat and therefore, Man A's hat must be white.

You're reasoning is right, but you got a little confused at the end. Man A's hat is blue.

A sees two blue hats, B and C. B (or C) begins thinking what color his hat may be. If he sees a white (A) and a blue (C) and C hasn't answered yet he knows his hat is blue (anyone who sees two whites knows there is atleast one blue and that it must be them). It's impossible for him to see two whites since we know there are two blues and only three people. So the only option left for him is to see two blue hats (A and C). However, knowing they both have blues doesn't help him; he could have a white. But, B and C's perspectives are interchangeable. And assuming they are both wise, have both come to the stalemated conclusion. A, also being in their predicament knows that they must be stumped because they both see two blues (one of those being him). So, he stands and says that he is wearing a blue hat.

If it's a little confusing, draw a diagram of the three men and see how it works.

 

[kirbyphreak]

falcoX will be replacing GotMink.
PIKACHUz will be replacing commonyoshi.
Checking if they want to replace now.

 

[camo-man]

Vote Count:

Ih8jamesbond - 1
Lance87

TahjMach - 2
ligolski, ixnay

It takes 7 to lynch.

Gonna prod soon.

 

[camo-man]

Sooo.... what about Bahamut? I still support my idea of the not-so-common restaurants being mafia.

 

[Wave⁂]

i dont get it. My 14 IQ brain isnt working.

 

[digitalmaster287]

Blah, I got confused in my own explanation and put white instead of blue

A father wants to divide his fortune to his two stupid sons. He devises a horse race where whoever's horse crosses the line LAST gets all the money. After many days and nights the sons don't know what to do because tis contest could go on forever so they seek the help of an old man. He said something to them and they ran to the horses and travelled at breakneck speed to the finish line. What did the old man tell them?

 

[Delphiki]

You're reasoning is right, but you got a little confused at the end. Man A's hat is blue.

A sees two blue hats, B and C. B (or C) begins thinking what color his hat may be. If he sees a white (A) and a blue (C) and C hasn't answered yet he knows his hat is blue (anyone who sees two whites knows there is atleast one blue and that it must be them). It's impossible for him to see two whites since we know there are two blues and only three people. So the only option left for him is to see two blue hats (A and C). However, knowing they both have blues doesn't help him; he could have a white. But, B and C's perspectives are interchangeable. And assuming they are both wise, have both come to the stalemated conclusion. A, also being in their predicament knows that they must be stumped because they both see two blues (one of those being him). So, he stands and says that he is wearing a blue hat.

If it's a little confusing, draw a diagram of the three men and see how it works.

That was the same conclusion I reached with my second guess:

My second guess was that all three have blue hats, and the one who answers correctly makes this assumption and then realizes that if that were the case no amount of inference could prove otherwise. This impossibility explains why no man can answer the question, so then by this he can assume (by a risk) that all hats are blue.



Perhaps you misunderstood, but that shows that none could reach a conclusion based on the hats they could see. Which means that Man A would, as I said, know he has a blue hat.

I also don't see why my third guess is incorrect either.


As fas as I can tell both my second and third attempts were both correct with valid reasoning which could be reached by the men. Can someone explain how they could be wrong?

 

[Delphiki]

Blah, I got confused in my own explanation and put white instead of blue

A father wants to divide his fortune to his two stupid sons. He devises a horse race where whoever's horse crosses the line LAST gets all the money. After many days and nights the sons don't know what to do because tis contest could go on forever so they seek the help of an old man. He said something to them and they ran to the horses and travelled at breakneck speed to the finish line. What did the old man tell them?

The first interpretation of this I heard involved a buggy race and a farmer. I got the answer before my roommate had finished reading the riddle. So I'll leave it for someone else.

 

[Virgilijus]

That was the same conclusion I reached with my second guess:

My second guess was that all three have blue hats, and the one who answers correctly makes this assumption and then realizes that if that were the case no amount of inference could prove otherwise. This impossibility explains why no man can answer the question, so then by this he can assume (by a risk) that all hats are blue.



Perhaps you misunderstood, but that shows that none could reach a conclusion based on the hats they could see. Which means that Man A would, as I said, know he has a blue hat.

I also don't see why my third guess is incorrect either.


As fas as I can tell both my second and third attempts were both correct with valid reasoning which could be reached by the men. Can someone explain how they could be wrong?

I was telling Digital Master that he got confused at the end of his explanation.

You got the answer right (blue hat), but the explanation is what is the most important. On your second guess, you didn't explain why he couldn't infer anything other than that they all have blue hats. Your third answer is really part of the explanation for why the second is actually true, just lacking some greater description. So both are right, just in pieces.

I'll save the answer to this riddle for some one else (the version I heard involved camels)...

 

[shiekmyster]

Bah im stumped..spolier please!

 

[Doraki]

Blah, I got confused in my own explanation and put white instead of blue

A father wants to divide his fortune to his two stupid sons. He devises a horse race where whoever's horse crosses the line LAST gets all the money. After many days and nights the sons don't know what to do because tis contest could go on forever so they seek the help of an old man. He said something to them and they ran to the horses and travelled at breakneck speed to the finish line. What did the old man tell them?

Spoiler

since it's the horses that are important and not the riders, they're trying to get each other's horse to the line first

I like Delphiki's sxplaination about Virgilijus's riddle where he says that the wise men have to have equal chances since the king wants to find out the wisest of them, so they must all have a hat of the same color, hence blue since there's at least 1 blue hat.

I know a bigger version of that riddle :

monks are living in a secluded place, and one particular day, some of them get a disease (more than 1)
A monk can see if another monk is ill, but can't know if he himself is ill or not.
They all have meals together at the same place, so they can see each other quite easily.
The rule is that if some day a monk finds out he's ill, he has to leave the community over the night, and noone may leave for another reason than knowing he's ill.

Of course, they can't talk to each other and they're all wise and always apply the rule.

Eventually, the ill monks always find out they're ill and they all leave on the same night. why ?

 

[Wave⁂]

digitalmaster287:

he tells them to switch horses.

 

[Virgilijus]

Doraki: It makes a great deal of sense to have the problem equal to each in most accounts, but the only essential think is the fair judgement of each man's situation. If a man is given a hard puzzle and another is given an easy one and they both finish at the same time a fair judgement would say that the man with the harder puzzle is the better thinker of the two. Granted, to take out what may be ambiguous judgements it is easiest to judge fairly if all aspects are the same. So the king doesn't have to make the riddle the same difficulty for each in order to decide for himself which is the wisest.

New Riddle:

Gordon is sitting at his circular table one night when the a strange figure appears before him. The stranger offers him a deal: if Gordon can beat him in a game then he will give him anything he wants but if Gordon loses he will be killed. The stranger then tells Gordon the rules of the game.
Each player has an infinite amount of pennies. They succesively take turns placing one penny at a time on to the top of Gordon's table. Neither player can stack pennies or move existing pennies while trying to place another one down, nor can they adhere them to the edges or beneath the table. The first player who cannot place a penny on the table without breaking the rules loses.
Gordon thinks the proposition through and says he will play and immediately moves first. Why is Gordon so sure he will win and where did he put his first move?

 

[Kujirudo]

Ow great, 2 of the players get replaced... Why is all of this happening?

 

[McRonald]

B: Battlefield 1942

 

[Rici]

Gordon is probably some kind of small creature(something like a mini-dwarf ), with small tables as big as pennys. So he puts his first penny anywhere on the table where it fully covers the table. Now the stranger cannot win anymore since you can't stack pennys.

 

[ligolski]

Get Freaking Active!

 

[Wave⁂]

uhh...doubt it...

does he know the size f the table?

wait....he puts it in the middle.

 

[Virgilijus]

Creative, but no. Gordon is a normal sized guy with a normal sized table...

Annoying: The dimensions of the table are unknown, but not preposterous. Why would he put it in the middle?

 

[digitalmaster287]

Ya I guess several people got the answer to my riddle. Virgilijus, I read your riddle somewher before so I'm not gona spoil the answer for others

 

[shiekmyster]

Spoil it for me. Thanks!

 

[Virgilijus]

I'll give you a hint:

Spoiler

The properties of the shape of the table are very important.

 

[Drab Emordnilap]

The shape of the table is irrelivant,

Spoiler

as long as it is symmetrical.

Gordon places a penny in the center of the table. Whenever Stranger-Dude places a penny, Gordon places one diametrically opposite.

 

[Virgilijus]

Correct.

Here is a new one:

In the middle of the desert there is a trail of clothing; four jackets, four shirts, four pants, etc. There are no footprints around any of the clothes. However, at the end of the line is a naked man. His neck is snapped and the around him is a small twig near his hand. What rational explanation tells how this odd scene came to place?

 

[digitalmaster287]

Arg thats a tough one

 

[EEvisu]

Correct.

Here is a new one:

In the middle of the desert there is a trail of clothing; four jackets, four shirts, four pants, etc. There are no footprints around any of the clothes. However, at the end of the line is a naked man. His neck is snapped and the around him is a small twig near his hand. What rational explanation tells how this odd scene came to place?

He came from a hot air balloon. They tried to lose weight by dumping their clothes, it didn't work. Eventually they had to dump a person

 

[Virgilijus]

And the twig?

 

[Kragen]

They threw that out too =P

 

[Xegony]

The assailants were hot so they took off their clothes. They then assaulted the dead person and snapped his neck. When they were done they swept the ground with branches they had brought to cover their footprints. One of the pieces of a branch broke off near the man.

Mystery solved.

 

[EEvisu]

That twig came from the balloon if you have ever been in one you know the basket you ride in is made up of a material thats twig like, I'm sure the guy tried to hold on when he got thrown off but could not.

 

[Virgilijus]

Close: they drew straws to see who would be tossed out. They broke off several pieces of the basket and the guy with the short straw was tossed out (he was not all to willing to go).

 

[Xegony]

I was close.