If the features in this game aren't enough for you, you're a spoiled gamer

[Thunderslf]

I'm sorry, but I'm absolutely appauled at the posts I'm seeing on this board. This game probably has THE most amount of awesome and fun features I have ever seen in a game, and I'm still seeing people complain about how some characters have similar movesets to other characters. I'll admit, Ganondorf was dissapointing, but Falco and Wolf look perfectly fine, and I don't mind Wind Waker Link's inclusion either. If you've seen Wolf's videos, he looks almost NOTHING like Fox besides the Landmaster tank. His A attacks are different (Last time I checked Fox doesn't HEADBUTT), most of his B attacks are different (You can change the direction of the foward-B attack), and his animations are completely different. Falco also has different combos and stuff too, but could be a little better. Also, take into context Wolf and Falco's speeds.

Wind Waker Link is complainable, but I think he's a welcome addition. His moves may be the same, but I think his speed makes up for it though. I don't mind Toon Link complaints though, they make sense. But Wolf and Falco are definitely beyond "Luigified". Ganondorf is also a bit dissapointing, but it's not that big a deal for me because 2 bad clones doesn't contradict all the other awesome characters and modes. How many games have you played that had over 35 playable characters (39 including the PKMN Trainer PKMN and Zero Suit Samus, who was proven to be able to be chosen from the character select screen actually), a Stage Builder, and a fully developed single player mode with 2 player co-op, beautiful CGI cutscenes, and a pretty decent story? I doubt you'll be able to name one.

The point of this post wasn't to tell people who are dissapointed not to be dissapointed, because they have every right to, but if you say things like "This game is a failure!" and "Sakurai didn't even try!" than you are, without a doubt in my mind, a spoiled gamer. There are PLENTY of fantastic characters to choose from, and there was tons of fan service put into the choices. Freaking SNAKE is in this game. Not to mention Sonic, Wario, Meta-Knight, King DeDeDe, and other fan favorites who were desperately wanted in Brawl. Just because every last character that you wanted didn't make it in doesn't mean Sakurai didn't try. I've never seen this much fan service combined with a top quality game to back it up before.

 

[Kittah4]

I dislike the term "spoiled". That implies that we've been treated like royal kings with Nintendos games recently, which we haven't really.

The fact is, we've looked at Brawl as a fairytale wonderland in which anything can happen (heck, I even think Sakurai said something to that effect in the Dr. Wright update) and now the reality comes crushing in on a lot of people.

Do you think it was wise for Sakurai to give three supposedly not-clones the same final smash, even Wolf?

Do you think it was wise for Sakurai to release the most surprising and fan-favored of all of the characters first, before the game came out?

Or how about Gandondorf still unrealistically copying off of Captain Falcon, whom he shares no kinship with.

People are disappointed because they were set up for a fall. Sakurai hyped up the good points of the game and left most of the shortcomings to be unlockable. Notice how no two starting characters share a final smash or are even semi-clones of each other.

I myself am not angry or upset anymore at anything other than the delay. However, with the multiple delays and incredible, unprecedented hype, it's easy to see why this game had such unrealistic expectations.

I think there would be far less whining if there was never even a dojo.

 

[GaryCXJk]

I think there would be far less whining if there was never even a dojo.

To the contrary. Now we at least know beforehand that Lyn, Samurai Goroh and Little Mac aren't playable.

 

[KaiserX]

I dislike the term "spoiled". That implies that we've been treated like royal kings with Nintendos games recently, which we haven't really.

The fact is, we've looked at Brawl as a fairytale wonderland in which anything can happen (heck, I even think Sakurai said something to that effect in the Dr. Wright update) and now the reality comes crushing in on a lot of people.

Do you think it was wise for Sakurai to give three supposedly not-clones the same final smash, even Wolf?

Do you think it was wise for Sakurai to release the most surprising and fan-favored of all of the characters first, before the game came out?

Or how about Gandondorf still unrealistically copying off of Captain Falcon, whom he shares no kinship with.

People are disappointed because they were set up for a fall. Sakurai hyped up the good points of the game and left most of the shortcomings to be unlockable. Notice how no two starting characters share a final smash or are even semi-clones of each other.

I myself am not angry or upset anymore at anything other than the delay. However, with the multiple delays and incredible, unprecedented hype, it's easy to see why this game had such unrealistic expectations.

I think there would be far less whining if there was never even a dojo.

There's also be less whining if you accepted your fate a bit earlier and got it over with...and didn't accuse NeoGAF of "corruption in its ranks" to justify several years worth of 100% correct leaks like some kind of new age vigilante git in order to stick your fingers in your ears to pretend it all wasn't true.

The 35 character roster was always known and it would've been way easier to swallow (fellatio joke here) if people like you just believed me and stopped getting everyone's hopes up.

Now, you can complain about Sakurai said this, Sakurai said that, or you can acknowledge the reality of the situation and try to have a positive outlook on it.

There's like, a grand total of TWO, maybe THREE characters that aren't in that should've DEFINITELY BEEN? Anything other than that would've been asking a lot.

Your "fantasy gaming paradise" wish already came true when he put in Sonic and Snake. If he left them secret, for REAL, maybe everyone would've been a lot happier about it right now since it would've been a pleasant surprise. But it was his choice to generate hype.

We have 39 seperate movesets, ZSS is selectable without a Final Smash, there's a word going around that Claus is an alternate costume of Lucas...

I mean, what else do you want? It's not like most of the characters people wanted are literally missing in action, they're just not playable.

Stop trying to turn this crap into MUGEN. If you want MUGEN, go play MUGEN. The rest of us will play a game with a good but not joygasmic roster that is actually fairly balanced and will enjoy ourselves while everyone else plays a crappy freeware program where you play as freaking Haruhi Suzumiya. There's a good roster, and then there's flipping overkill. Some people on this board...many people on this board...wanted pure overkill.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Gaming is evolving and many gamers have adapted to the new standards. Many of Brawl's features excel as you mention, like the music, stages, adventure. I'm not calling Sakurai being a total lazy douche bag but some things could have been better. I don't think I'm being spoiled if I did say that the Online is rather...mediocre - good at best compared to other games.

 

[Mikezor]

I agree with the title of this thread, but I feel the body of the reply had little to no coherence with the title.

 

[DarkDedede]

The mods should make one "Brawl Roster Love/Hate Thread" and sticky it, and then just lock the rest of them. Whether you're apalled and disgusted, or appalled and disgusted at those appalled and disusted, there really isn't any need to cluter up the forum because you think your opinion merits making another thread.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

It's not spoiled to say that Sakurai really could've done better with the roster. It's true, he really could've.

I'm not a spoiled gamer, I just let Sakurai get my hopes up like he was doing in all his Updates.

I probably would've acted differently though if more of the Characters were unlockable.

 

[Kittah4]

There's also be less whining if you accepted your fate a bit earlier and got it over with...and didn't accuse NeoGAF of "corruption in its ranks" to justify several years worth of 100% correct leaks like some kind of new age vigilante git in order to stick your fingers in your ears to pretend it all wasn't true.

The 35 character roster was always known and it would've been way easier to swallow (fellatio joke here) if people like you just believed me and stopped getting everyone's hopes up.

Your "fantasy gaming paradise" wish already came true when he put in Sonic and Snake. If he left them secret, for REAL, maybe everyone would've been a lot happier about it right now since it would've been a pleasant surprise. But it was his choice to generate hype.

It's hard to put your faith in text from a site I'd never heard before from people who's credibility had never been mentioned until the leaks had started. I won't appologize for my ignorance, because most of the supporters of the NeoGAFers were extremely arrogant and rude about it. Plus, to our knowledge the leak had not circulated in Japan. Is Japan so much more scrupulous that they can keep their mouth shut about the spoilers while in english speaking countries such info repeatedly flows forth?

I also don't believe I ever explicitly said the 35 was a lie, just that I felt it was unlikely to be true and that from all the hands the info was passed from there could have been untruth spread in any one of them, including Nintendo.

I'm sorry I couldn't believe in the NeoGAFers, but in truth I wouldn't have tried to rub anything in if they were wrong. I would have been happy that they were and left it at that.

If anything, I'd blame Sakurai for the backlash caused in all the leaking, because he obviously didn't leave the best for last (aka secret), and caused huge debates in Ness' availability with his choice of words (even in Japan, I'm assuming, thanks to SP's translation).

It's true a lot of people rejecting the NeoGAFers were in denial, but can you blame them? It's hard for me to do so, because it's almost indisputable that the characters known before the leak are better than the ones post-leak.

So yeah, I don't appologize to anyone arrogant about their being in the know (ShadowXOR and Serebii come to mind) or people who berate others for not believing in one text rumor over another.

 

[SolidSonic]

I haven't seen anyone call the game a failure (well, only one kid), or say that Sakurai didn't even try....

But I have seen people who make legitimate criticisms, be flamed by emotional 12 year olds who are devoid of any common sense. (no I'm not talking about you)

 

[TaurToph]

Dude, how can I say that.

I'm an Young Link fan.

I mained him in the first day I got melee and never mained anyone else.

And Zelda Majora's Mask is my favorite game ever.

So I, the Y.Link fan, say I WAS PRAYING to him to be Link's clone again. I mean, in 6 years i got used to his moveset as I'm used to walk. What would be of me if it was replaced? Just to make people that'll NEVER play as him happy?
Actually whats up with that ppl, what will change for them if Toon Link is a clone if they're not maining him? This is totally nonsense!
I applaud Sakurai for his decision...

And those are words from a Y.Link fan and mainer.

 

[sv3]

I think many of the 'competitive' players are definitely spoiled in that they jumped right into the current SSBM metagame, or something very close to it. It seems like none of them have ever experienced the way a fighting game (though I use that term loosely with SSBM) develops over time.

 

[Lucas_User]

I dont see how this game could NOT be amazing.

 

[Thunderslf]

The online definitely isn't the best it could of been, and that's what I'd consider a GOOD complaint. But if you think this game is utter garbage because of a few clones (Some of wish could even be considered new, like Wolf, bar his FS), that's not good. I think some people expected too much. I kept decent hype for this game, I only really expected 40 characters max, and didn't really believe Sakurai when he said clones were out. So in the end my I actually got (Almost) a better game than I expected, since I thought Falco would be exactly the same as he was in Melee, and when I first heard Wolf was in I thought he'd be a Fox clone, but he winded up being much different than I thought. Ganondorf is the only true dissapointment for me, I expected Falco and the like to be different, but Ganondorf to change his moveset completely. It's a little dissapointing, but when the game is chock full of so much stuff, it's just dust on your shoulder.

 

[Puffin]

Spoiled because we don't like how it's turning out? What are you talking about? We are the consumer; the creators should have actually listened to our sentiments when making the game. Instead, they made it for themselves. The consumer isn't spoiled. Stop being such a Nintendo fanboy.

 

[RedrappeR]

Spoiled because we don't like how it's turning out? What are you talking about? We are the consumer; the creators should have actually listened to our sentiments when making the game. Instead, they made it for themselves. The consumer isn't spoiled. Stop being such a Nintendo fanboy.

You're right, because Sonic, Dedede, Online Play, Stage Builder, Pikmin and Olimar, Wario... those guys TOTALLY weren't suggested by the fans.

Go look at your thread and play SF3. Now.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

There's actually one small feature that I wanted, which was that different stages have items and AT's that are specific to their stage, but whatever I suppose.

"But if you think this game is utter garbage because of a few clones"
Naw, clones are fine if they don't play exactly like each other. I'm sorry if Mortal Kombat or DBZ Budokai have evolved but some nooby friends of mine claim that each character is SO different lol. The roster isn't garbage, its just the unlockables are anti-climatic. I can still go back to Olimar/Pkmn/Sonic/Snake and remembering shouting "HOLY ****" at 12am waking up everyone at home =/. At the end, characters won't matter when it goes hardcore competitive, I remember looking forward to Mewtwo and Game and Watch, they didn't seem so important after... but I still love how they made each character... its so much better than thos half ***** fighting games.

 

[KaiserX]

It's hard to put your faith in text from a site I'd never heard before from people who's credibility had never been mentioned until the leaks had started. I won't appologize for my ignorance, because most of the supporters of the NeoGAFers were extremely arrogant and rude about it.

Arrogance and rudeness = instantly false, mirite? We told you they had years of credibility. You flat out ignored it. It's your own fault that you're so let down.

Plus, to our knowledge the leak had not circulated in Japan. Is Japan so much more scrupulous that they can keep their mouth shut about the spoilers while in english speaking countries such info repeatedly flows forth?

To our knowledge? How many Japanese sites do you visit? Do you speak Japanese? Almost no one here does or speaks it, so of course we wouldn't know anything. My favorite part, however, was when everyone trusted the Ridley "leak" simply because it was written in Japanese. Even though there was the giant word "RUMOR" in English over it.

JAPANESE = FACTS, GUISE, MIRITE?

I also don't believe I ever explicitly said the 35 was a lie, just that I felt it was unlikely to be true and that from all the hands the info was passed from there could have been untruth spread in any one of them, including Nintendo.

But you thought the mods would let them slip by.

El. Oh. El.

I'm sorry I couldn't believe in the NeoGAFers, but in truth I wouldn't have tried to rub anything in if they were wrong. I would have been happy that they were and left it at that.

How nice of you!

If you're implying we're rubbing it in, we sure aren't. Just annoyed that people are "taken by surprise" or "disappointed" or something to that effect when the evidence was there for a freaking month.

If anything, I'd blame Sakurai for the backlash caused in all the leaking, because he obviously didn't leave the best for last (aka secret), and caused huge debates in Ness' availability with his choice of words (even in Japan, I'm assuming, thanks to SP's translation).

And there is where we agree. Ness' availability, however, is irrelevant. For everyone happy he's there, there's that many people actually complaining because Lucas is a clone.

Yeah, how dare they add in a model change when so many flipping people are clamoring for them now?

"We want Ness!"
"Hey guys, Ness is in."
"WTF, HE SAID NO CLONES. NO NESS PLZ, LUCAS REPLACES HIM"

It's true a lot of people rejecting the NeoGAFers were in denial, but can you blame them?

Yes. Yes I can. Do you think I'm happy? Why can I acknowledge that this is true when the roster's kinda missing a few people it shouldn't? Oh right. Because my spine isn't jelly and I can accept something when it's as trivial as a bloody video game.

It's hard for me to do so, because it's almost indisputable that the characters known before the leak are better than the ones post-leak.

Better = True, mirite?

So yeah, I don't appologize to anyone arrogant about their being in the know (ShadowXOR and Serebii come to mind) or people who berate others for not believing in one text rumor over another.

But we explained, very vigorously, why it was true. We made it clear that the people in question were "IN THE KNOWN" for several years and were never wrong. Some people, not necessarily me, were even posting long, elaborate archives of the correct leaks they supplied and when they did. They even went so far as to explain that they had their own, well renowned sites and were backed by mod support when the mods heard what their sources were. But people flat out denied and ignored it.

From the absolutely FOOLPROOF argument of "well, uhhh, they could be wrong THIS TIME! Right...right?" to the hilariously absurd like "well maybe the mods are in on it! They'd totally alienate everyone minus two people for the lulz!"

This was denial in its most sad form yet. This wasn't cautiousness, this was people who didn't want to acknowledge the truth, and then had the audacity to even remotely complain after the fact.

Spoiled because we don't like how it's turning out? What are you talking about? We are the consumer; the creators should have actually listened to our sentiments when making the game. Instead, they made it for themselves. The consumer isn't spoiled. Stop being such a Nintendo fanboy.

The customer is always right...right?...hahahaha.

Gaming's a creative industry. It's not a freaking soapbox for people to get what they want.

Go to any major gaming community and it's full of self-absorbed and self-important twits like the rest of you. People are never satisfied. That's why game developers will never give much of a **** what you think.

EDIT: "David R. Ellis, you better put in the line "I've had it with these mutha****in' snakes" or else I'm not seeing your movie! ;_________;"

 

[Chaosblade77]

All things considered, most people have very few problems with the game. Those who do have problems misunderstand things that were not clear at first, for example, as soon as Wolf was seen in game everyone screamed clone after only seeing his FS, when in fact he isn't.

There are still clones that should not have been there, Ganondorf-the-semiclone is a great example. Toon Link is also a character I look down on. The whole "BUT THEY PLAY DIFFERENTLY!!!!!" argument held true for Melee clones too, so spewing that does little good.

Then the online, like you said, could have been better. I am happy with how the friends mode turned out though, a lot of people seem to overlook that and think With Anyone mode is everything. The last thing worth bringing up is how I feel the roster doesn't really make sense in terms of franchise representation. (Eg. Mother = Metroid? StarFox > Fire Emblem/Metroid? Zelda > Mario?)

Anyway, back to my point, there are several people that would not bring up their disappointments with the game if topics like this did not exist. I was quite disappointed at first, but after seeing all of these things in action I am fine with it all. I can't wait to play as Wolf for example.

Sort of hypocritical, but I wish people would stop complaining about the complainers, especially since there are so few people who are still opening complaining. Look at all of the active complaint topics, how many of them are recent? Most of them were made on the 29th/30th depending on where you live, and they sure aren't as active as they were.

there's a word going around that Claus is an alternate costume of Lucas...

Where is this? I have not seen it.

 

[Thunderslf]

Spoiled because we don't like how it's turning out? What are you talking about? We are the consumer; the creators should have actually listened to our sentiments when making the game. Instead, they made it for themselves. The consumer isn't spoiled. Stop being such a Nintendo fanboy.

A Nintendo fanboy? That's pretty funny, as I thought the GameCube was a disaster and much prefer the 360 (And a good PC) to the Wii. How did Sakurai NOT listen? He added a **** load of wanted characters (Dedede, Meta Knight, Olimar, ****ing SONIC, etc), improved the single player a great deal (Whether you like it or not, the majority of the Smash fanbase aren't tournygoers and think that a storyline featuring Nintendo characters working together to stop evil is awesome, such as me), gave us great stages (It's weird how Sakurai announced the most boring stages in the beginning, and the better ones are known only because of the leak), and if you don't like the stages, make your own stage with the stage creator. There was a **** load of work put into this game, just because every last detail wasn't catered to you doesn't mean they made the game for themselves.

If Nintendo begging 3rd party companies to include their characters in this game doesn't scream fan service, I don't know what does. You're acting like Sakurai did everything wrong just because of a few clones.

Naw, clones are fine if they don't play exactly like each other. I'm sorry if Mortal Kombat or DBZ Budokai have evolved but some nooby friends of mine claim that each character is SO different lol. The roster isn't garbage, its just the unlockables are anti-climatic. I can still go back to Olimar/Pkmn/Sonic/Snake and remembering shouting "HOLY ****" at 12am waking up everyone at home =/. At the end, characters won't matter when it goes hardcore competitive, I remember looking forward to Mewtwo and Game and Watch, they didn't seem so important after... but I still love how they made each character... its so much better than thos half ***** fighting games.

I know what you're saying. The final roster was a little underwhelming when I saw it, and it wasn't the best decision to release the two biggest characters (Snake and Sonic) so soon. That doesn't make the game any worse though, but the element of suprise just wasn't there.

 

[KaiserX]

Where is this? I have not seen it.

Nevermind. It was a red haired variant.

Technically Claus, but no mask, however.

 

[Rusty Shacklefurd]

The way I see it, almost every complaint I hear(including L cancelling complaints) could be easily directed at melee with only minor tweaks and still be true. Not enough characters! No Ridley/Krystal/Megaman etc! You can't completely remove lag from air attacks! OMG CLONES! Melee is crap, they're totally ripping us off, no excuse, NO EXCUSE!

Oh and guess what, everyone ended up loving melee!

It's not about being spoiled it's, about being stupid. Everyone hears there's a new SSB coming out and that it's gonna' be the best and that they're even paying attention to consumer input and all they hear is "NINTENDO IS NOW YOUR VIDEO GAME SLAVE THAT WILL LISTEN AND OBEY TO EVERY MINBNUMBING COMMENT ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE IN THE GAME AND WILL SET AND ACCOMPLISH COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC GOALS SO EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD WILL BE INDIVIDUALLY EXTACTIC ABOUT EVERY TINY INSIGNIFICANT ASPECT OF THE ENTIRE GAME AND EVERY CHARCTER IMAGINABLE WILL BE INCLUDED BECAUSE THE WORLD OF VIDEO GAMES IS LIMITLESS IN ABILITY AND CAN ACCOMPLISH EVERYONE'S WISHES OVERNIGHT!!! HEY, WE'VE ONLY BEEN IN THE BUSINESS FOR DECADES, WHAT DO WE KNOW? WE DON'T NEED SLEEP, NOT WHILE YOU HAVE ISSUES TO ***** ABOUT!!!"

 

[Kittah4]

Arrogance and rudeness = instantly false, mirite? We told you they had years of credibility. You flat out ignored it. It's your own fault that you're so let down.







But you thought the mods would let them slip by.

El. Oh. El.



How nice of you!

If you're implying we're rubbing it in, we sure aren't. Just annoyed that people are "taken by surprise" or "disappointed" or something to that effect when the evidence was there for a freaking month.

Yes. Yes I can. Do you think I'm happy? Why can acknowledge that this is true when the roster's kinda missing a few people it shouldn't? Oh right. Because my spine isn't jelly and I can accept something when it's as trivial as a bloody video game.



Better = True, mirite?



But we explained, very vigorously, why it was true. We made it clear that the people in question were "IN THE KNOWN" for several years and were never wrong. Some people, not necessarily me, were even posting long, elaborate archives of the correct leaks they supplied and when they did. They even went so far as to explain that they had their own, well renowned sites and were backed by mod support when the mods heard what their sources were. But people flat out denied and ignored it.

From the absolutely FOOLPROOF argument of "well, uhhh, they could be wrong THIS TIME! Right...right?" to the hilariously absurd like "well maybe the mods are in on it! They'd totally alienate everyone minus two people for the lulz!"

This was denial in its most sad form yet. This wasn't cautiousness, this was people who didn't want to acknowledge the truth, and then had the audacity to even remotely complain after the fact.



The customer is always right...right?...hahahaha.

Gaming's a creative industry. It's not a freaking soapbox for people to get what they want.

Go to any major gaming community and it's full of self-absorbed and self-important twits like the rest of you. People are never satisfied. That's why game developers will never give much of a **** what you think.

I still think NeoGAF is a sticking point. Imagine waking up to someone telling you theres a news association with a lot of credibility you've never heard of before, and that since they told you something you should ABSOLUTELY believe it, when its not coming from anywhere else but the "Tabloids" of the Internet (GameFAQs, Nyasnya, etc)

I'm pretty surprised no one appeared before the leaks happened and advertised the fact that if leaks came from anywhere, you could probably trust NeoGAF leaks. People like Nyasnya, who I think turned out to be absolutely right (they even said something about Snakes mine being offensive, and it changed. AFTER THE FACT of them showing it!) yet they got modded without remorse. I don't think that was neccesarily wrong.

Even with the NeoGAFers reputation and liklihood for being right, they still had no concrete proof. You didn't address the part where I claimed the sources could have been lying to them. James Earl Jones didn't even know Darth Vader was Luke Skywalkers father, and when reading those lines thought that Darth Vader was lying. You'd think with a game as arguably important as this, they would have let false information through reputable sources such as the NeoGAFers to cause more surprise when the truth came out.

What did the leaks gain the NeoGAFers anyway? if they were wrong, their accounts were supposedly forfeit (that would have sucked if they were lied to, eh?). if they were rigth, they earn the ire of tons of Smash fans just for being right. All they win is being able to chide others for knowing the information and being right, which is childish (not sayingt he neoGAF people have done this, but Serebii and ShadowXOR sure have)

 

[KaiserX]

I still think NeoGAF is a sticking point. Imagine waking up to someone telling you theres a news association with a lot of credibility you've never heard of before, and that since they told you something you should ABSOLUTELY believe it, when its not coming from anywhere else but the "Tabloids" of the Internet (GameFAQs, Nyasnya, etc)

So if there was documented evidence of that credibility, you should still throw it out? Keep digging, man. It's not going to get you anywhere. We proved they were credible. They now have more proof of that credibility.

I've never heard of them! Clearly it's wrong!

I'm pretty surprised no one appeared before the leaks happened and advertised the fact that if leaks came from anywhere, you could probably trust NeoGAF leaks. People like Nyasnya, who I think turned out to be absolutely right (they even said something about Snakes mine being offensive, and it changed. AFTER THE FACT of them showing it!) yet they got modded without remorse. I don't think that was neccesarily wrong.

Believe it or not, there's communities out there with more respect and credibility than freakin' SmashBoards. >< You will find Smashboards is the laughing stock of much of the internet, in fact. Biggest =! Best. You can complain about the chans, but we got lots of information from them. You can complain that we never heard (zomg!) of NeoGAF's two prophets, and yet they existed for a while and were right several times about several leaks.

You're not getting anywhere with this. The fact that you never heard of them doesn't change that they were right and we showed you how many times they were right. It wasn't just denial, it was denial of the most ruthless and grasping kind.

Even with the NeoGAFers reputation and liklihood for being right, they still had no concrete proof. You didn't address the part where I claimed the sources could have been lying to them.

I did address that.

I thought it was HILARIOUS. Really, really hilarious. No one would bet their accounts to be banned on potentially false information. No mods would back these individuals if they thought the sources they knew they got their information from could be incorrect. That's all the proof we needed, whether it was concrete or not.

Sometimes, you just need to go with common sense.

What was funnier was, a while back when I already said all of this, you said "they must be doing it for attention!," even though they simply gave the information and bailed. Then everyone ignored their OBVIOUSLY FAKE ZOMG roster on account of not being better than sex, and it was only a handful of people who actually woke the hell up.

James Earl Jones didn't even know Darth Vader was Luke Skywalkers father,
and when reading those lines thought that Darth Vader was lying.

He also didn't bet his job acting as Darth Vader that he wouldn't be. What the hell is your point?

You'd think with a game as arguably important as this, they would have let false information through reputable sources such as the NeoGAFers to cause more surprise when the truth came out.

It's time you learned the truth.

Sakurai is not a master of mind games. That's a silly misnomer given by the hardcore fanbase because they overanalyze his statements. He's not giving mindgames, misleading people, creating fake leaked copies with half the roster, or hiding the entire roster in the HTML code of the Dojo. He's not the second gunman in the Kennedy Asassination, he is not responsible for 9/11, and he is not the wife of Jesus Christ as hidden in various works of Da Vinci.

He's a game designer. He's a flipping GAME DESIGNER. He makes games. He does this so he can support himself, his family, and that is it. It's just his job. He doesn't give a **** if his game is leaked on the Internet. That's a reality of this day and age.

He doesn't CARE. There wasn't "fake information," and only a total git would ever truly believe there was for more than a few minutes. I entertained the possibility - once- and then realized "hey, who cares? People buy the game either way."

Look at some of these unlocking methods. Every secret character was going to be revealed from day 1. Meaning people who didn't buy it from day 1 would know anyway.

So why would he do that?

He wouldn't. You're just grasping. You were grasping. You will always be grasping until you accept that your expectations are abnormally high, were abnormally high, and will continue to be abnormally high until you realize that this is just a game made by some guy who makes games and the hype was created by you.

What did the leaks gain the NeoGAFers anyway? if they were wrong, their accounts were supposedly forfeit (that would have sucked if they were lied to, eh?)

That's why they wouldn't risk that.

if they were rigth, they earn the ire of tons of Smash fans just for being right.

Oh the folly of them for being verbally assaulted by 12 year olds for being right!

Who gives a ****? The rest of us appreciated the information. You were the ones who plugged your ears and sang.

All they win is being able to chide others for knowing the information and being right, which is childish (not sayingt he neoGAF people have done this, but Serebii and ShadowXOR sure have)

Oh, I won't disagree ShadowXOR was kind of a twit in his post. But Serebii did because people pissed and moaned back and forth that

1. He wasn't the real Serebii
2. He was A FILTHY DIRTBAG LIAR.

Both of which were equally amusing.

 

[Heflito]

Do you think it was wise for Sakurai to release the most surprising and fan-favored of all of the characters first, before the game came out?

I assume your refering to Snake? That wasn't Sakurai. If memory serves he found out about the game at the same time as us. He was aproached to do the game after the first trailer, featuring Snake.
But I do agree the Dojo was a bad idea. However the content is still good even if it was presented poorly. And again, all the hype was created by the fans so it's not nintendo, or Sakurais fault your all dissapointed. So I really think that all these complaining theads should close in favor of 1 sticky complain thread so we can focus on topics pretaining to the game content we are all looking forward to.

 

[ChicoPunk13]

I'm sorry, but I'm absolutely appauled at the posts I'm seeing on this board. This game probably has THE most amount of awesome and fun features I have ever seen in a game, and I'm still seeing people complain about how some characters have similar movesets to other characters. I'll admit, Ganondorf was dissapointing, but Falco and Wolf look perfectly fine, and I don't mind Wind Waker Link's inclusion either. If you've seen Wolf's videos, he looks almost NOTHING like Fox besides the Landmaster tank. His A attacks are different (Last time I checked Fox doesn't HEADBUTT), most of his B attacks are different (You can change the direction of the foward-B attack), and his animations are completely different. Falco also has different combos and stuff too, but could be a little better. Also, take into context Wolf and Falco's speeds.

Wind Waker Link is complainable, but I think he's a welcome addition. His moves may be the same, but I think his speed makes up for it though. I don't mind Toon Link complaints though, they make sense. But Wolf and Falco are definitely beyond "Luigified". Ganondorf is also a bit dissapointing, but it's not that big a deal for me because 2 bad clones doesn't contradict all the other awesome characters and modes. How many games have you played that had over 35 playable characters (39 including the PKMN Trainer PKMN and Zero Suit Samus, who was proven to be able to be chosen from the character select screen actually), a Stage Builder, and a fully developed single player mode with 2 player co-op, beautiful CGI cutscenes, and a pretty decent story? I doubt you'll be able to name one.

The point of this post wasn't to tell people who are dissapointed not to be dissapointed, because they have every right to, but if you say things like "This game is a failure!" and "Sakurai didn't even try!" than you are, without a doubt in my mind, a spoiled gamer. There are PLENTY of fantastic characters to choose from, and there was tons of fan service put into the choices. Freaking SNAKE is in this game. Not to mention Sonic, Wario, Meta-Knight, King DeDeDe, and other fan favorites who were desperately wanted in Brawl. Just because every last character that you wanted didn't make it in doesn't mean Sakurai didn't try. I've never seen this much fan service combined with a top quality game to back it up before.

with all due respect bro, the game does not live up to expectations. you are supposed to push the limits, especially with the amount of time and money that went into developing this game. when you have dissatisfied fans that feel that an OLDER game has more enticing features and deeper gameplay that's a bad sign. smash bros is a game that so many people play to tap into the continual evolution of gameplay and competitive element. so, when you take away options like lcanceling and wding that made the game so cool, that has to be seen as a tactical mistake.

i understand why these decisions were made, like a more robust single player, more mode selection, etc., but i think they misprioritized the two most crucial aspects of the game: #1 PLAYERS!!!! and #2 depth of gameplay. we were promised "no more clones" and the promise was not kept. the character list is underwhelming at best with 35 characters composed mostly of clones, combined characters and old names (24 as far as i can tell). but the worst part of the development process is to forsake the best possibility offered by the wii: competitive play. competition is what this game is all about, yet there is no online ranking system, even for those interested, matchmaking options are annoying and the gameplay was dumbed down rather than enhanced. and it's unfair to the competitive players who have offered so much support and excitement over the development process.

instead they focused development efforts on the single player mode, more modes and visual/ audio upgrades (more music, more costumes, better graphics, etc.). all these things are great, but i would have rather not sacrificed the character list and gameplay additions that could have been stellar. ultimately the most important thing for Nintendo is the bottom line and i'm sure they'll sell plenty of copies of this game, but it leaves the player wanting more and is a bit of a letdown. i hope they offer some form of online updating, if only to fix the character balance issues which will undoubtedly arise.

 

[KaiserX]

I assume your refering to Snake? That wasn't Sakurai. If memory serves he found out about the game at the same time as us. He was aproached to do the game after the first trailer, featuring Snake.
But I do agree the Dojo was a bad idea. However the content is still good even if it was presented poorly and so I really think that all these complaining theads should close in favor of 1 sticky complain thread so we can focus on topics pretaining to the game content we are all looking forward to.

The Dojo's a wonderful idea.

Little children that haven't had common sense and reality kicked into their stiff little necks is the problem.

with all due respect bro, the game does not live up to expectations. you are supposed to push the limits, especially with the amount of time and money that went into developing this game. when you have dissatisfied fans that feel that an OLDER game has more enticing features and deeper gameplay that's a bad sign. smash bros is a game that so many people play to tap into the continual evolution of gameplay and competitive element. so, when you take away options like lcanceling and wding that made the game so cool, that has to be seen as a tactical mistake.

i understand why these decisions were made, like a more robust single player, more mode selection, etc., but i think they misprioritized the two most crucial aspects of the game: #1 PLAYERS!!!! and #2 depth of gameplay. we were promised "no more clones" and the promise was not kept. the character list is underwhelming at best with 35 characters composed mostly of clones, combined characters and old names (24 as far as i can tell). but the worst part of the development process is to forsake the best possibility offered by the wii: competitive play. competition is what this game is all about, yet there is no online ranking system, even for those interested, matchmaking options are annoying and the gameplay was dumbed down rather than enhanced. and it's unfair to the competitive players who have offered so much support and excitement over the development process.

instead they focused development efforts on the single player mode, more modes and visual/ audio upgrades (more music, more costumes, better graphics, etc.). all these things are great, but i would have rather not sacrificed the character list and gameplay additions that could have been stellar. ultimately the most important thing for Nintendo is the bottom line and i'm sure they'll sell plenty of copies of this game, but it leaves the player wanting more and is a bit of a letdown. i hope they offer some form of online updating, if only to fix the character balance issues which will undoubtedly arise.

There is enough, you were not promised no more clones. Shut up.

 

[BowietheHERO]

i'm absolutely worn out on roster complaints

"ZOMGZ RIDLEY ISN'T IN!!??" he IS in, he's a BOSS!!!! which honestly is the only way I could see him. Come on, he's a huge skeletal pterodactyl that was a BOSS in every game he was in.

"zomgz *insert random 3rd party character no one's heard of or cares about* isn't in!!??"

come ON people, Sakurai put sonic and snake in and you flipped and thought that every single 3rd party character had a chance of making it in as a PC

*sighs* *remembers EGM's april fool's joke about sonic and tails being PC's in Melee* i must've played cruel melee for a year trying to unlock them

 

[Kittah4]

So if there was documented evidence of that credibility, you should still throw it out? Keep digging, man. It's not going to get you anywhere. We proved they were credible. They now have more proof of that credibility.

I've never heard of them! Clearly it's wrong!



Believe it or not, there's communities out there with more respect and credibility than freakin' SmashBoards. >< You will find Smashboards is the laughing stock of much of the internet, in fact. Biggest =! Best. You can complain about the chans, but we got lots of information from them. You can complain that we never heard (zomg!) of NeoGAF's two prophets, and yet they existed for a while and were right several times about several leaks.

You're not getting anywhere with this. The fact that you never heard of them doesn't change that they were right and we showed you how many times they were right. It wasn't just denial, it was denial of the most ruthless and grasping kind.



I did address that.

I thought it was HILARIOUS. Really, really hilarious. No one would bet their accounts to be banned on potentially false information. No mods would back these individuals if they thought the sources they knew they got their information from could be incorrect. That's all the proof we needed, whether it was concrete or not.

Sometimes, you just need to go with common sense.

What was funnier was, a while back when I already said all of this, you said "they must be doing it for attention!," even though they simply gave the information and bailed. Then everyone ignored their OBVIOUSLY FAKE ZOMG roster on account of not being better than sex, and it was only a handful of people who actually woke the hell up.

He also didn't bet his job acting as Darth Vader that he wouldn't be. What the hell is your point?

It's time you learned the truth.

Sakurai is not a master of mind games. That's a silly misnomer given by the hardcore fanbase because they overanalyze his statements. He's not giving mindgames, misleading people, creating fake leaked copies with half the roster, or hiding the entire roster in the HTML code of the Dojo. He's not the second gunman in the Kennedy Asassination, he is not responsible for 9/11, and he is not the wife of Jesus Christ as hidden in various works of Da Vinci.

He's a game designer. He's a flipping GAME DESIGNER. He makes games. He does this so he can support himself, his family, and that is it. It's just his job. He doesn't give a **** if his game is leaked on the Internet. That's a reality of this day and age.

He doesn't CARE. There wasn't "fake information," and only a total git would ever truly believe there was for more than a few minutes. I entertained the possibility - once- and then realized "hey, who cares? People buy the game either way."

Look at some of these unlocking methods. Every secret character was going to be revealed from day 1. Meaning people who didn't buy it from day 1 would know anyway.

So why would he do that?

He wouldn't. You're just grasping. You were grasping. You will always be grasping until you accept that your expectations are abnormally high, were abnormally high, and will continue to be abnormally high until you realize that this is just a game made by some guy who makes games and the hype was created by you.

That's why they wouldn't risk that.

Oh the folly of them for being verbally assaulted by 12 year olds for being right!

Who gives a ****? The rest of us appreciated the information. You were the ones who plugged your ears and sang.

Oh, I won't disagree ShadowXOR was kind of a twit in his post. But Serebii did because people pissed and moaned back and forth that

1. He wasn't the real Serebii
2. He was A FILTHY DIRTBAG LIAR.

Both of which were equally amusing.

My point with the Darth Vader thing is that people can be lied to. Why would they bet their account on possibly false information? If they had absolute faith it was true. Why would someone you're working for lie to you? Asked George Lucas. If James Earl Jones said George Lucas told him that Darth Vader was a liar about being related to Luke to the fans, they would have believed him, because he's reputable. But he was lied to. My only point is lies could have come from anywhere, from people you respect or trust or who give you a paycheck.

But like I've said earlier, I had always had room for the possibility that it was true, and though I was unhappy about it, I have made peace with it presently. But unlike others, I will not antagonize people with unrealistic expectations of the game, because I myself had them, and lots of events stirred them up, not the least of which was the Japanese "poll" and Sakurai's own methods of the Dojo. The hype of this game wouldn't be nearly as high without the dojo. People would have been completely clueless as to who would be in or out, and thus, the dojo wouldnt have been around for fans thoughts to fester about whether X or Y would be in the game or not.

 

[Chaosblade77]

with all due respect bro, the game does not live up to expectations. you are supposed to push the limits, especially with the amount of time and money that went into developing this game. when you have dissatisfied fans that feel that an OLDER game has more enticing features and deeper gameplay that's a bad sign. smash bros is a game that so many people play to tap into the continual evolution of gameplay and competitive element. so, when you take away options like lcanceling and wding that made the game so cool, that has to be seen as a tactical mistake.

Wish people would give Brawl some time before they said it is 100% less tactical than Melee and less enticing.

My god, the game has been out for TWO DAYS. TWO FREAKING DAYS. No one knows if there are any new advanced techniques yet, even without L-cancel, people will figure out other techniques.

i understand why these decisions were made, like a more robust single player, more mode selection, etc., but i think they misprioritized the two most crucial aspects of the game: #1 PLAYERS!!!! and #2 depth of gameplay. we were promised "no more clones" and the promise was not kept. the character list is underwhelming at best with 35 characters composed mostly of clones, combined characters and old names (24 as far as i can tell). but the worst part of the development process is to forsake the best possibility offered by the wii: competitive play. competition is what this game is all about, yet there is no online ranking system, even for those interested, matchmaking options are annoying and the gameplay was dumbed down rather than enhanced. and it's unfair to the competitive players who have offered so much support and excitement over the development process.

You were promised no more clones? How come the rest of us were not promised this.

Also, how on Earth is it "mostly clones?"

Falco - Semiclone
Ganondorf - Semiclone
Toon Link - I hear he is quite clonish
Lucas - Semiclone

Every other character is unique aside from those four.

Then you go back into gameplay depth that I commented on above.

instead they focused development efforts on the single player mode, more modes and visual/ audio upgrades (more music, more costumes, better graphics, etc.). all these things are great, but i would have rather not sacrificed the character list and gameplay additions that could have been stellar. ultimately the most important thing for Nintendo is the bottom line and i'm sure they'll sell plenty of copies of this game, but it leaves the player wanting more and is a bit of a letdown. i hope they offer some form of online updating, if only to fix the character balance issues which will undoubtedly arise.

The roster, while it could be better, is not bad. They added things to the game that would allow it to sell, huge advances in the single player and tons of new modes for multiplayer co-op.

Smash Brothers was never designed for competitive players, the competitive scene evolved from the casual game. The same will happen with Brawl.

 

[KaiserX]

My point with the Darth Vader thing is that people can be lied to. Why would they bet their account on possibly false information? If they had absolute faith it was true. Why would someone you're working for lie to you? Asked George Lucas. If James Earl Jones said George Lucas told him that Darth Vader was a liar about being related to Luke to the fans, they would have believed him, because he's reputable. But he was lied to. My only point is lies could have come from anywhere, from people you respect or trust or who give you a paycheck.

...But it's not the same thing as JEJ betting his job working as Darth Vader in the first place.

You completely freaking ignored that part.

But like I've said earlier, I had always had room for the possibility that it was true, and though I was unhappy about it, I have made peace with it presently. But unlike others, I will not antagonize people with unrealistic expectations of the game, because I myself had them, and lots of events stirred them up, not the least of which was the Japanese "poll" and Sakurai's own methods of the Dojo. The hype of this game wouldn't be nearly as high without the dojo. People would have been completely clueless as to who would be in or out, and thus, the dojo wouldnt have been around for fans thoughts to fester about whether X or Y would be in the game or not.

Ok, but that ignores that we explained without fail that it was almost 100% true and you made up new and absurd reasons that the sources were wrong. And still today make bad analogies that ignore half the situation.

And the Dojo was necessary for an outlet of information. Otherwise people would be crying endlessly due to the lack of information.

It was you and everyone else. It was your fault, not the Dojo's.

EDIT: And for anyone complaining about a lack of competitive content, please go away. Shut up, leave, go play another game for Koreans to exploit, because I'm sick and tired of you doing it to a fun game.

NO SMASH BALLS
WOLF ONLY
FINAL DESTINATION

 

[Your Hero]

You can't possibly be a spoiled video gamer, but you can get your hopes up from comments and ideas made from the creator of a video game to find out it won't happen.

 

[KaiserX]

You can't possibly be a spoiled video gamer, but you can get your hopes up from comments and ideas made from the creator of a video game to find out it won't happen.

Or you can vastly misinterpret or knowingly skew said creator's quotes in order to be what you necessarily demand so you can pretend it's the truth just so you can pretend that it's his fault when you didn't get your way.

See: "No more clones."

 

[Rusty Shacklefurd]

The Dojo wasn't a bad idea, the bad idea was the idiots thinking for no reason whatsoever that for every new character revealed there must be 10 more new characters being kept secret so even though all the updates freaked you out with remarkable win, when the game was released you got pissed because you kept deluding yourself into thinking there would be 100 characters and everything would be perfect and original and because you considered every rumor in your favour to be concrete proof of what the game would be.

 

[KaiserX]

The Dojo wasn't a bad idea, the bad idea was the idiots thinking for no reason whatsoever that for every new character revealed there must be 10 more new characters being kept secret so even though all the updates freaked you out with remarkable win, when the game was released you got pissed because you kept deluding yourself into thinking there would be 100 characters and everything would be perfect and original and because you considered every rumor in your favour to be concrete proof of what the game would be.

Aaaaand we're done.

 

[Thunderslf]

Sakurai said he was trying to get clones out of the game, and I think he did a good job. Considering the game had more total characters than Melee, and less clones. The only true dissapointments were Ganondorf and Toon Link. Atleast for me.

 

[SinisterLizard]

Spoiled because we don't like how it's turning out? What are you talking about? We are the consumer; the creators should have actually listened to our sentiments when making the game. Instead, they made it for themselves. The consumer isn't spoiled. Stop being such a Nintendo fanboy.

I just saw this and had to quote it. This is a point I made before, but people never listen anywhere. Anyway, we are the consumer; so we have every right to expect what we want and have high expectations. We're shelling out the money. They're making the profit.

 

[ChicoPunk13]

Wish people would give Brawl some time before they said it is 100% less tactical than Melee and less enticing.

My god, the game has been out for TWO DAYS. TWO FREAKING DAYS. No one knows if there are any new advanced techniques yet, even without L-cancel, people will figure out other techniques.


You were promised no more clones? How come the rest of us were not promised this.

Also, how on Earth is it "mostly clones?"

Falco - Semiclone
Ganondorf - Semiclone
Toon Link - I hear he is quite clonish
Lucas - Semiclone

Every other character is unique aside from those four.

Then you go back into gameplay depth that I commented on above.


The roster, while it could be better, is not bad. They added things to the game that would allow it to sell, huge advances in the single player and tons of new modes for multiplayer co-op.

Smash Brothers was never designed for competitive players, the competitive scene evolved from the casual game. The same will happen with Brawl.

well, i hope the depth of gameplay is there. i guess like you said, no use worrying about until the game's been released. as far as mostly clones, i can see how that was misinterpreted, but i actually said it's mostly clones and rehashes of older characters. i understand keeping the old guys and adding clones (i don't actually have a big prob with the clones), but i still believe the development efforts left something to be desired as far as the character list is concerned. not the end of the world though and i'll be holding off on the complaints until i've actually had a chance to play the game. i'm still pumped to play and that's the most important thing i guess.

 

[Your Hero]

Or you can vastly misinterpret or knowingly skew said creator's quotes in order to be what you necessarily demand so you can pretend it's the truth just so you can pretend that it's his fault when you didn't get your way.

See: "No more clones."

Actually I was referring to the character polls.

 

[KaiserX]

i'm still pumped to exploit the game and give strange names to these new "techniques"and that's the most important thing i guess.

Fixed.

Actually I was referring to the character polls.

You further my point. They weren't character polls. They were the number of times he referred to them in his blog.

Just another misconception.