If Miis were on a tier list where would they be?

[TheBardlyBard]

Id say brawler Top tier, Gunner high Mid, and swordsman bottom(Im sorry to all you guys)

Where do you guys think they would be?

 

[BigLord]

Too early for tier lists, IMO, but I'd say your listing is about as accurate as it could be ATM, heh.

 

[ArchmageMC]

Too early for tier lists, IMO, but I'd say your listing is about as accurate as it could be ATM, heh.

This. Esp if Brawler gets to keep Piston Punch

 

[T0MMY]

They are on tiers, and that's about where they stand on the Japanese tier list.

@ A ArchmageMC
Not sure what you mean by "gets to keep", is it just on loan or leasing it or something? haha

 

[BigLord]

He probably means "if it doesn't get banned". I honestly don't think it'll matter a lot, Helicopter Kick is a monstruous recovery too, ay @ Jigglymaster ?

 

[Jigglymaster]

The Japanese Tier list has exactly that, Mii Brawler in A tier, Gunner in C, and Swordfighter listed as worst. It can be assumed that they are including the mii fighter's customs.

This is my personal opinion.

Default
Mii Brawler: D Tier
Mii Gunner: D Tier
Mii Swordfighter: E Tier

With Customs
Mii Brawler: S+ Tier
Mii Gunner: B Tier
Mii Swordfighter: D Tier.

 

[ArchmageMC]

The Japanese Tier list has exactly that, Mii Brawler in A tier, Gunner in C, and Swordfighter listed as worst. It can be assumed that they are including the mii fighter's customs.

This is my personal opinion.

Default
Mii Brawler: D Tier
Mii Gunner: D Tier
Mii Swordfighter: E Tier

With Customs
Mii Brawler: S+ Tier
Mii Gunner: B Tier
Mii Swordfighter: D Tier.

If they reduce the knockback on that first hit of PP then Mii Brawler will sill be S tier, but yeah. I mean, Mii Bralwer has...

(Shortest/medium weight MII, pref female)
Kirby Air speed
Falco jump height
Smaller than Kirby hurtbox
Near Fox speed
Mario Utilt
Falcon Ftilt
Sonic Fsmash
Fox Usmash
Falcon/little mac jab
Mario/falcon Dthrow
ZSS flip kick but better due to going to neutral after going off an edge with the kick part
Better DK recovery with kill potential
Better lil' Mac upB with way better kill potential even without one inch
Better Raptor Boost
A transcended projectile (Same tier as Samus's Charge shot I believe)
Great aerials, but I'm unsure of what chars the aerials take after. I think its Falcon Uair, Mario Nair, Falcon Bair, Falcon Dair, and original Fair?


Only downsides are a smallish hitbox and meh grab range and sonic lightness.

 

[Jigglymaster]

If they reduce the knockback on that first hit of PP then Mii Brawler will sill be S tier, but yeah.
.

I'm not even talking about Piston Punch. It's Helicopter Kick that makes him S+ tier. He's only A tier with Piston Punch IMO. It's too situational and there are matchups that flat out beat this strategy, unlike Helicopter Kick which has no weaknesses. Also, there are a couple things wrong with what you said.

Mii Brawler has the fastest air speed in the game, kirby doesn't come anywhere close to that XD
Sonic's F-smash is a lot faster and harder to punish, unlike Mii Brawler's f-smash
Mii Brawler is actually middle weight, so he's a bit heavier than Sonic is, Heavier than Mario too.

 

[ArchmageMC]

I'm not even talking about Piston Punch. It's Helicopter Kick that makes him S+ tier. He's only A tier with Piston Punch IMO. It's too situational and there are matchups that flat out beat this strategy, unlike Helicopter Kick which has no weaknesses. Also, there are a couple things wrong with what you said.

Mii Brawler has the fastest air speed in the game, kirby doesn't come anywhere close to that XD
Sonic's F-smash is a lot faster and harder to punish, unlike Mii Brawler's f-smash
Mii Brawler is actually middle weight, so he's a bit heavier than Sonic is, Heavier than Mario too.

hm, good to know.

 

[Jigglymaster]

hm, good to know.

Let me explain to you with some greater detail. Piston punch is notorious for killing off the top early, but most of those kills come from the opponent being light and performing near the higher platforms. This strategy effectively becomes worthless on stages with no platforms and heavier characters. Even if you are fighting a lighter opponent on a stage with platforms, you actually have to get them to the top, and baiting isn't easy either if they know what you're trying to do, they can simply shark you from the bottom and time you out in a safe spot. So yeah, it can kill at 30%-40% if you get the situation right, but thats really hard. On average the move will kill consistently at 100%, though against some heavy weights you won't see them dying until their 150%.

Helicopter Kick on the other hand, is known for killing horizontally, it combos exactly the same as Piston Punch does except it does not need platforms to work and it does not need to only be on lighter characters. You'll find yourself easily killing with this move at around 80% consistently. You can kill earlier than that with it too but you won't have much trouble killing later. Even heavyweights will be flat out dead around 110% if they get hit by the move anywhere on the stage. Piston Punch is more of a gimmick that has its flaws, Helicopter Kick is just a move thats flat out strong.

 

[ArchmageMC]

Let me explain to you with some greater detail. Piston punch is notorious for killing off the top early, but most of those kills come from the opponent being light and performing near the higher platforms. This strategy effectively becomes worthless on stages with no platforms and heavier characters. Even if you are fighting a lighter opponent on a stage with platforms, you actually have to get them to the top, and baiting isn't easy either if they know what you're trying to do, they can simply shark you from the bottom and time you out in a safe spot. So yeah, it can kill at 30%-40% if you get the situation right, but thats really hard. On average the move will kill consistently at 100%, though against some heavy weights you won't see them dying until their 150%.

Helicopter Kick on the other hand, is known for killing horizontally, it combos exactly the same as Piston Punch does except it does not need platforms to work and it does not need to only be on lighter characters. You'll find yourself easily killing with this move at around 80% consistently. You can kill earlier than that with it too but you won't have much trouble killing later. Even heavyweights will be flat out dead around 110% if they get hit by the move anywhere on the stage. Piston Punch is more of a gimmick that has its flaws, Helicopter Kick is just a move thats flat out strong.

Yeah I understand the reasoning perfectly. It basically boils down to this

Piston Punch vs noobs
helicopter kick vs pros.

At anyrate, I'm more concerned on how many true combos Mii brawler has.

Also, is short/medium weight brawler the best would you say?

 

[Jigglymaster]

Yeah I understand the reasoning perfectly. It basically boils down to this

Piston Punch vs noobs
helicopter kick vs pros.

At anyrate, I'm more concerned on how many true combos Mii brawler has.

Also, is short/medium weight brawler the best would you say?

Piston Punch is also useful against lightweight characters who die to the One Inch Punch, if you don't mind doing that sort of thing. Kind of kills Jiggs at 0% on any stage making that matchup 100-0 in Brawler's favor.

Also some true combos Mii Brawler has

D-throw to Helicopter Kick (Up till 50% or so)
N-air to Grab (Lower percents)
D-throw to U-air (Up till 50% or so)
D-throw to F-air (Up till 50% or so)
Feint Jump Kick to Helicopter Kick (Have to edge cancel the Feint Jump)

F-air or U-air to Helicopter Kick might be a true combo as well but I have to test that out more.

Short/thin mii is the best, but for tournament standards its probably best to practice with default weight.

 

[Azazel]

I know that at ~55% on dedede, there's definitely enough hitstun for D-throw>F-air>Helicopter kick to combo doing a solid 30% and it kills.
I think in general at ~55% Mii brawlers aerials(B-air,F-air,U-air) give enough hitstun on to combo into each other (N-air,B-air,F-air,U-air) or into Piston Punch/helicopter kick, and with Mii Brawler's mobility they do!

1st hit of F-air > grab/F-tilt/U-tilt/Usmash/N-air/piston punch/helicopterkick/F-air/B-air/U-air/D-air
First hit or F-fair sends victims straight up and combos into pretty much anything, even D-air at high enough percent

Also ~35% D-tilt > Aerials/Up-special

 

[ArchmageMC]

why is Short/thin the best mii combo there jiggs?

 

[BigLord]

(Shortest/medium weight MII, pref female)
Kirby Air speed
Falco jump height
Smaller than Kirby hurtbox
Near Fox speed
Mario Utilt
Falcon Ftilt
Sonic Fsmash
Fox Usmash
Falcon/little mac jab
Mario/falcon Dthrow
ZSS flip kick but better due to going to neutral after going off an edge with the kick part
Better DK recovery with kill potential
Better lil' Mac upB with way better kill potential even without one inch
Better Raptor Boost
A transcended projectile (Same tier as Samus's Charge shot I believe)
Great aerials, but I'm unsure of what chars the aerials take after. I think its Falcon Uair, Mario Nair, Falcon Bair, Falcon Dair, and original Fair?

A few things/questions...
1 - why is female better than male? I thought they behaved the same exact way?
2 - Falcon's fTilts are a bit different than Brawler's fTilts... I'd call them Mario's, instead;
3 - Sonic's fSmash is WAAAAAAY better than Brawler's, heh;
4 - Better Raptor Boost? As a Falcon main, I'm sorry but I'll have to call horsecrap on that one... Raptor Boost has gone from okay-combo-starter to god-tier-punisher. It kills so early, it's ridiculous;
5 - Transcended projectile? Say what now?
6 - Aerials are very similar to Falcon's 64 aerial moves. They probably got it from there.

 

[ArchmageMC]

A few things/questions...
1 - why is female better than male? I thought they behaved the same exact way?
2 - Falcon's fTilts are a bit different than Brawler's fTilts... I'd call them Mario's, instead;
3 - Sonic's fSmash is WAAAAAAY better than Brawler's, heh;
4 - Better Raptor Boost? As a Falcon main, I'm sorry but I'll have to call horsecrap on that one... Raptor Boost has gone from okay-combo-starter to god-tier-punisher. It kills so early, it's ridiculous;
5 - Transcended projectile? Say what now?
6 - Aerials are very similar to Falcon's 64 aerial moves. They probably got it from there.

1. Female has a more slender frame than male. Due to the way Smash rigs hrutboxes to bones, this probably also very slightly reduces your hurtbox without changing anything else.
2. Fair enough
3. Jiggs mentioned that
4. It KOs at the same %, but when done in the air it KOs up instead of down
5. basically it'll clash with Samus's charge shot and megaman can't kill it with lemons. Plus its physical so no absorb shenanigans.
6. fair enough.

 

[Azazel]

why is Short/thin the best mii combo there jiggs?

Higher mobility

 

[Jigglymaster]

What he said, Brawler runs faster, jumps higher, and attacks faster meaning he can chain his up-tilts and up-airs more than he can already. Doesn't really suffer from the lack of range and the slight damage and weight nerf.

 

[CHOMPY]

Mii Brawler is not a bad character by any means. It has high mobility to avoid tons of grounded attacks. With high aerial mobility, they can be very difficult to hit. What I enjoy most about the Mii Brawler is as your landing, you can do a safe landing nair to rapid jab them in the face!

I also found they can counter Diddy pretty hard, due to the fact that Diddy depends too much on grabbing other characters to perform the dthrow follow-up combos. The bowling ball (neutural B) can gimp Diddy's jetpacks.

 

[Azazel]

don't forget super early kills. 60% d-throw > helicopter kick is insane

 

[CHOMPY]

Is the helicopter kick a custom move?

 

[Jigglymaster]

Is the helicopter kick a custom move?

It is, but Apex has allowed the use of 1111, 2222, and 3333 Mii Brawler. So 2222 Brawler is an actual legal character now w/ Helicopter Kick.

 

[ArchmageMC]

It is, but Apex has allowed the use of 1111, 2222, and 3333 Mii Brawler. So 2222 Brawler is an actual legal character now w/ Helicopter Kick.

Well thats nice. Ultimate Uppercut is still a good B move, and the Side B moves were the most flexible.

 

[Shakyy]

What I have discovered is Mii brawlers down throw, fair to fair to up B is guaranteed kill on fox between like 50% and 70%, got my friend with it twice he was not very happy as he said it reminded him too much of inescapable situations from Melee and PM.