If a synched pair of ice climbers grabs any opponent on any stage...

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

...on any part of the stage... how "garaunteed" is it that he will be chaingrabbed to death (if the ics reads the di perfectly), if wobbling is not used? Is it ALWAYS possible if you don't mess up?

Yes I have searched the forums, and the general answer seems to be yes, but the reason Im confused about the answer (and the reason im making this thread) is because when I see pro ICs fighting other pros in tourny matches where wobbling isn't allowed, I often see the pro ICs go for a smash rather then a fullfledged chaingrab. I'm probably missing something (maybe the ics werent fully synched, or they messed up, or nana did something stupid), but I just wanted to be sure. Thanks for any answers

 

[Kyu Puff]

First off, it depends on the character; you can't chaingrab the whole cast, aside from Wobbling and regrabbing (which only works 50% of the time unless you're near an edge).

As far as I know, the only inescapable chaingrab is the reverse d-throw d-air. Falcon and Ganondorf can't escape this with any kind of DI. The normal d-throw d-air (what Chu does on spacies) can be escaped through SDI. The d-throw and d-throw to d-smash can also work from 0-death, but it's easier to screw up than you make out, and it can be DI'd towards the ledge until escaped.

Chaingrabbing is useful to know, as long as you know what characters/situations in which to use it. If you see an IC player not chaingrabbing, it could simply be that they don't want to risk messing up. See this video for a good explanation of most chaingrabs.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Nice vid.
And thanks for your answer, it makes alot of sense considering how easy it is for nana to do something you don't want here to do whenever you're trying to do something that involves her (like complicated cg's). Atleast when I try to play IC's nana loves being a dumb ***** ha
BTW the regrabbing thing you're talking about, is that the popo dthrow->nana grabs->nana fthrow->popo grabs->popo dthrow->nana grabs->etc thing by the edge?

BTW, does this mean that the IC's are much better if wobbling is allowed? Some of my friends have been arguing about wether it should be alowed in tournies or not (and I can't really form an opinion since I have so little experience with the ICs), and the people who think it should be say "Well if you're grabbed by IC's you're dead anyway, so whhats the point of banning it?".
I mean it's obvious that a grab from the IC's is gonna do loads of damage regardless, but would you say that wobbling makes a huge difference or not?

 

[KirbyKaze]

ics haven't won anything in a year lol. it really doesn't make as big an impact as people make it seem. it helps but like... you don't get more than 2 synched grabs against a good marth, peach, fox, falco, etc anyways.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Off course it all comes down to how "grabbable" your foe is, and considering the fact that your opponent knows how dangerous a grab from the ic's is his highest priority if most likely to not get grabbed, making it rwal hard for the ic's player to grab them. And I also realize that the ic's don't become broken or top tier because of wobbling...

 

[1048576]

Itmakes them better, but it doesn't make them broken

 

[PB&J]

ics haven't won anything in a year lol. it really doesn't make as big an impact as people make it seem. it helps but like... you don't get more than 2 synched grabs against a good marth, peach, fox, falco, etc anyways.

just because they didn't whe n a major tourny doesn't mean anything and u can chain grabbing is very useful.so if u have the chance to use it..use it unless u know grab combos to death like i do alot but i chain grab when i feel like my oppenent can't smash di and against top pros i do alot of my own grab combos...so chain grab as much as u can but don't set ur whole game around it....what made me better was i train for 1 month with no chain grabs

 

[KirbyKaze]

Against people who can smash DI, who are intimate with the ICs as a character, and who understand how to DI their individual moves (like everyone knows how to do for Fox, Sheik, Marth, Falco, Falcon, etc) their chain grabs will not work unless they are an inescapable one. I agree wholeheartedly that basing your game around chain grabs is stupid, and you should be able to combo without them, though. Having said that, is beating people with bad DI really that hard?

Even with improvisation they do not consistently death combo without the wobbles against most characters. They can do improvised death combos from grab, much in the same way that Falcon can do death combos, but they're mostly escapable with proper DI.

 

[knightpraetor]

can someone explain to me where a marth/fox or whatever should be diing the various chaingrabs..my friends ask how to get out..and i don't know what to tell them.

you smash the DI the dthrow to dair Away and down i guess? and then try to spotdodge the followup grab?

and the dthrow to dsmash you smash DI away and jump out?

 

[Kyu Puff]

D-throw to d-air, DI away and then smash DI the d-air away.

D-throw to d-smash, I believe it's not escapable at correct percentages (with good DI chasing). Easiest way: DI towards the edge, and then off the edge. At a high enough percentage, you can simply jump out.

 

[KirbyKaze]

uhh if they're not escaping the d-throw d-smash wtf i swear that's escapable by marth and fox. marth by just di up and jumping and i thought if fox just di away you couldn't regrab?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Only at certain percentages, yeah.

Marth can escape every chaingrab regardless (other than d-throw at 0%). D-throw d-smash works on fastfallers at certain percentages. Fox, being the fastest faller when it comes to chaingrabbing, can only be chaingrabbed with d-throw d-smash at higher percentages. The reason people often relate the d-throw d-smash to Sheik is because she is the perfect target at low to mid percents. It's a shame the IC forums don't have a list of chaingrabbing percentages.

On a side note, the reason you sometimes see Chu chaingrab a Marth is because he catches them offguard. If they don't DI/mash properly then it's possible to chaingrab him with d-throw d-air or reverse dtdair. Mix chaingrabbing up with grab combos and you'll be able to chaingrab more successfully, even when it's escapable.

Sorry if this post makes little sense... I'm really tired. x.x

 

[KirbyKaze]

it makes sense.

i know you can cg fox/falco at higher %s with d-throw d-smash but i always thought at the really high %s it was superfluous to do so. then again i don't know how high, so if it starts at 70 i might add that to my game...

when does it start working?

and yeah, mixups are the key to making combos and cgs work in this game, etc.