If ____ Isn't Top/High tier, What's the point?

[DiasFlac]

Who are you and why should I not think you're stupid?

I can beat a bunch of people as Zelda in Melee. Doesn't mean Zelda is Top Tier material or that she isn't 4th or so worst in the entire game. They're just bad players. And so are you and the people you play against.

And since when does outwards appearances mean anything in fighting games? Sometimes, the big, slow and strong characters are Top Tier och High Tier (not in this case, though, you and your friends just suck).

Your taking what I wrote waaay to serious xD and how do you know I'm a "bad player"? I can't say your a good player or a bad player having not played against you yet. What is a good player in this game? No one really knows. Just because you beat someone that doesn't make you a good player that just means your better then that person but then that person may beat you the next match so maybe your even?

Anyways I still vote Bowser for top tier because his shell can reflect any projectile and block any attack. Not to mention his overall Bowserness. :bigthumbu

 

[Twin Dreams]

Your taking what I wrote waaay to serious xD and how do you know I'm a "bad player"? I can't say your a good player or a bad player having not played against you yet. What is a good player in this game? No one really knows. Just because you beat someone that doesn't make you a good player that just means your better then that person but then that person may beat you the next match so maybe your even?

Anyways I still vote Bowser for top tier because his shell can reflect any projectile and block any attack. Not to mention his overall Bowserness. :bigthumbu

Well, the fact that you joined in 2008 is a red flag that you are probably not that good. It means that Brawl is your first smash and possibly your first fighter, and even those pale to the fact that you may still not have even competed in tournaments! Even if you entered in tournaments, have you entered in regional? National? Inter-national?

To answer your question, "good" players and "bad" players are relative. So, by calling you a "bad player" Yuna was at least suggesting that you were in the bottom half of all people who play this game. (This would be the denotation of the word, imo, he was just calling you stupid.)

A better player isn't beating someone. You aren't considered better by beating someone or considered not as good if you lose to someone. A better player is someone who consistently wins. So, if Player A and Player B played to infinity. Whoever won more often is the better player. (You can't tell who is better from 1 or 2 matches unless the skill level is extremely different.)


To the note that Bowser should be top-tier...



Does anyone understand that tiers aren't derived from anything except tournament results? "I think X should be Y tier because of Z trait. " is an incorrect statement. What you should be saying is...

"I think X should be Y tier because he's one Z tournaments." Even then, those in the Smash Back room debate this. In honestly, I say they should be the only ones. Because it means that all the people talking are intelligent of tournament brake down according to characters, character mechanics, and game mechanics.


What qualifies your opinion against someone who has played for 10 minutes?

 

[WhiteWingDemon]

Well, the fact that you joined in 2008 is a red flag that you are probably not that good. It means that Brawl is your first smash and possibly your first fighter, and even those pale to the fact that you may still not have even competed in tournaments! Even if you entered in tournaments, have you entered in regional? National? Inter-national?

While I agreed with the rest of your post. I feel your assumption here is outright wrong. I only joined in 2008 but I've been playing smash since the first one came out. I've also played a multitude of other credible fighters such as Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, as well as a multitude of other fighters. I'm not saying that makes me good, (I think I suck at everything but SCII) but I am saying that it proves your assumption wrong.

 

[DiasFlac]

Well, the fact that you joined in 2008 is a red flag that you are probably not that good. It means that Brawl is your first smash and possibly your first fighter, and even those pale to the fact that you may still not have even competed in tournaments! Even if you entered in tournaments, have you entered in regional? National? Inter-national?

To answer your question, "good" players and "bad" players are relative. So, by calling you a "bad player" Yuna was at least suggesting that you were in the bottom half of all people who play this game. (This would be the denotation of the word, imo, he was just calling you stupid.)

A better player isn't beating someone. You aren't considered better by beating someone or considered not as good if you lose to someone. A better player is someone who consistently wins. So, if Player A and Player B played to infinity. Whoever won more often is the better player. (You can't tell who is better from 1 or 2 matches unless the skill level is extremely different.)


To the note that Bowser should be top-tier...



Does anyone understand that tiers aren't derived from anything except tournament results? "I think X should be Y tier because of Z trait. " is an incorrect statement. What you should be saying is...

"I think X should be Y tier because he's one Z tournaments." Even then, those in the Smash Back room debate this. In honestly, I say they should be the only ones. Because it means that all the people talking are intelligent of tournament brake down according to characters, character mechanics, and game mechanics.


What qualifies your opinion against someone who has played for 10 minutes?

Just because I joined in 2008 doesn't mean this is my first smash. LOL. I've been playing Smash since the start and I play loads of fighting games and I've played in many touneys.

You can't say I'm a good player or a bad player you have never played against me before. For all you know I maybe better then Yuna. Now I'm sure Yuna will be back to give lots of info why he "thinks" he's better then me but the fact that we still haven't played one another isn't going to make what he says mean much of anything. It'll just be his thoughts against mine.

I don't care for tiers but I don't care if others do. I'm not going to give my thoughts on why I think Bowser is top because I was joking. LOL. I find it even more funny how some of you actually think I was being for real about that.

I don't care if you all think me saying "so and so is top" isn't intelligent because once again it was simply a joke. Plus you guys do know that this is only a game right? I believe some of you are taking this way to serious. I mean the characters only exist that CD you put into your Nintendo console.

Tournaments are fun, this game is fun, forums are fun but some people take that away make it serious stuff. The fact that we're still going off a simply thing I said "Bowser is top tier!!" is what I mean by some people taking things to serious.

Go ahead and give your 80 reasons why you "think" your better then me but until we've actually brawl (which I don't see happening) their just thoughts.

Bowser Top Tier!! *runs*

 

[Twin Dreams]

While I agreed with the rest of your post. I feel your assumption here is outright wrong. I only joined in 2008 but I've been playing smash since the first one came out. I've also played a multitude of other credible fighters such as Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, as well as a multitude of other fighters. I'm not saying that makes me good, (I think I suck at everything but SCII) but I am saying that it proves your assumption wrong.

I was saying that the fact that he joined in 2008 is in an indicator to his unfamiliarity with competitive gaming. I did not mean this as a way of pointing out newbs, since I know that people can indeed view the boards as guests. I was merely saying that a lot of people have joined in 2008 who have not played competitively. Or competitively at high levels. After rereading my post, I guess I didn't make that clear, so my apologies on that.





As for Diasflac...


All you've said is that you don't take the game seriously. So you take it seriously enough to be a member of an online forum about it and troll people who take it more serious than you, but not serious enough to consider tiers to matter? I was merely just pointing out that better players will win consistently and that tiers are based off of tournament standings. You have not refuted either of these arguments and instead of backed off to the scrub's "I play for fun" defense. Are you suggesting that I don't play for fun? Taking the game "seriously" doesn't allow the people playing it to enjoy it? If that's true, are you saying that sports fans don't have fun when watching their teams play because they take those games seriously? (That isn't to mention the players, who DEFINITELY take the game seriously.)

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I can beat a bunch of people as Zelda in Melee. Doesn't mean Zelda is Top Tier material or that she isn't 4th or so worst in the entire game. They're just bad players. And so are you and the people you play against.

So just because they lost to a low-tier, they're bad players? Come on, I know you're smarter than that...that's just a ridiculous statement.

 

[Rayku]

I remember watching him in person playing Chu with Mewtwo in one of the top 8 fights. He almost won, too

 

[Crizthakidd]

you can become the best player in the world with a certain character as long as uve moastered him/her and know a lot more about the game then player B.

tiers are only right when both players are at the same lvl.

so if my and player B are the same im using a link and player B is marth and im 80% good and hes only 60% ill probably win unless i made more mistakes and he mindgamed me more.

its simple really but ull find that ONE guy who will pick that one odd character and become beast with him. prolly not top in world but def. up there.

 

[ShadowLink84]

actually you'll stil lprobably lose.
The difference has to be greater in order for Link to actual win.

 

[theGreatDekuTree]

you *******es need a cawk slapping, there is no tierlist anymore, any character can be played if the controller is skilled enough & knows how to use the characters attributes

suck a fat one, i get so tired of hearing you kids making up lies

 

[ShadowLink84]

you *******es need a cawk slapping, there is no tierlist anymore, any character can be played if the controller is skilled enough & knows how to use the characters attributes

suck a fat one, i get so tired of hearing you kids making up lies

I am probably older than you child.

Tier lists exist. ANY game in which DIVERSITY exists will have a tier list.
Your argument as been pwnt.

 

[Shaman]

lol the point of using them, is that if you can become really good with a low tier char
IE Chudat with the melee IC's...
well, just about everyone knows Chudat, hell I'd argue he's probably better known than allot of the other top players, just 'cuz he's the guy that took the Ic's to the top, or there abouts
gimpyfish would be another example, but he's probably more known because he is constantly commenting on the forum, than because he is a good player.
****, sorry for all the spelling/ grammar, I'm thinking in French, got a big exam coming up, peace

 

[DiasFlac]

I was saying that the fact that he joined in 2008 is in an indicator to his unfamiliarity with competitive gaming. I did not mean this as a way of pointing out newbs, since I know that people can indeed view the boards as guests. I was merely saying that a lot of people have joined in 2008 who have not played competitively. Or competitively at high levels. After rereading my post, I guess I didn't make that clear, so my apologies on that.





As for Diasflac...


All you've said is that you don't take the game seriously. So you take it seriously enough to be a member of an online forum about it and troll people who take it more serious than you, but not serious enough to consider tiers to matter? I was merely just pointing out that better players will win consistently and that tiers are based off of tournament standings. You have not refuted either of these arguments and instead of backed off to the scrub's "I play for fun" defense. Are you suggesting that I don't play for fun? Taking the game "seriously" doesn't allow the people playing it to enjoy it? If that's true, are you saying that sports fans don't have fun when watching their teams play because they take those games seriously? (That isn't to mention the players, who DEFINITELY take the game seriously.)

So you agree that Bowser is top tier then?

Also Yuna seems to think he's the best because he can beat "good players" with a "low tier Zelda" in melee and because of this I'm a "bad player"

I'm done here.

 

[RDK]

Wow. There are people actually arguing whether or not tier lists exist?

I have once again underestimated the Brawl Boards's stupidity.

 

[Lynkx]

I came 4th in Tournament using Link, the top two people used Marth and Sheik but I also beat a very skilled man when he used Marth...

What I'm trying to say is what Eriatarka said, tiers DO exist, but it doesn't mean instant win. It just gives the person who is using a top tier character the advantage

 

[Twin Dreams]

Almost everyone in this topic don't understand how tiers work.



Tiers are given from tournament standings. So, characters that constantly rank higher, are higher on the tier list. The BEST character in the game would be on the bottom of the tier list if no one entered any tournaments with him. Tiers are not based on how good an actual character is, it's based on who wins tournaments.


However, as tournaments approach infinity, the tiers will continue to be more correct. This would go as far to say that if everyone were of the same approximate skill, then picking a top tier character would give you a higher chance of winning.


So, to put this thread back on topic, "If X isn't Top/High tier, what's the point?"


IMHO, this is a game. Games should be fun. A lot of people will say, "I play for fun, you guys take this game too seriously." This is scrub, and a different philosophy. To have success in a game, you must enjoy it on some level. My point, to stop rambling, is that taking the game seriously and having fun are not mutually exclusive.

Now, do I HAVE to play a top/high tier character?

No. You don't. You'll just have to practice a LOT more. You'll have to get significantly better with that character. Even so, a lot of people develop more than one character. So, why not get a high character on the side?

If you want to choose a low tier character, go for it. Just be willing to work hard and to accept that you will lose often until you get significantly better than everyone else.

 

[DiasFlac]

whats a tier again?

 

[Andrex]

I am probably older than you child.

Tier lists exist. ANY game in which DIVERSITY exists will have a tier list.
Your argument as been pwnt.

Care to tell me what Mario Kart DS's tier list is?

 

[Corimon]

[deleted.]

 

[Corigames]

Wow. There are people actually arguing whether or not tier lists exist?

Yes, we have reverted back to this silly argument of tier existence.
Because, evidentially, everyone is equal in Brawl. Yoshi's can beat Marth and Donkey Kong can always beat a R.O.B..

Yeah, it's dumb isn't it?

 

[ellelaby]

So you agree with Bowser being top then?

No Bowser can't be top. He said that if a lvl 15 fights a lvl 15 (2 players of the same skill) and one of them uses a high tier character, then the one using the higher tier character will more likely win as they have more advantages/options.

If a lvl 17 fights a lvl 15, the lvl 17 has more of a chance at winning as his skill level is higher, even with Bowser.

 

[Corigames]

Care to tell me what Mario Kart DS's tier list is?

Honestly, everyone uses the Yoshi Egg kart because it's easiest to snake with. Snaking is an advanced tactic in Mario Kart where you exploit the game's engine inorder to go extremely fast by power sliding back and forth on straight-ways.

Try again smart ***.

 

[thesage]

Mango won the last major ssbm tournament with jigglypuff...

>_>

Tiers matter, but they shouldn't affect players. The players affect the tiers.

The tier list is basically an evaluation of a character's metagame and how well it usually places at tournaments.

 

[Giga Hand]

What kind of convoluted logic is this?

"We removed a few things... so now tiers don't matter."

An Yoshi will never be able to win against an equally skilled Marth in Brawl... unless the Yoshi plays perfectly and the Marth messes up repeatedly. That's a fact.

With less universal techniques that help bad characters become tremendously better (L-canceling made slow laggy characters playable), the game is more unbalanced. Wavedashing allowed almost everyone to punish certain moves. No wavedashing = Less punishing. Oh, did Marth just Fsmash you at tipper range? You're Yoshi? Too bad, no punish for you! You're Marth? Fair/Bair out of shield!

Tiers will always matter unless the game is almost perfectly balanced. And Brawl might or might not be more balanced than Melee but it's far from being perfectly balanced. Some characters will be useless. Why would anyone play them? For fun. But they wouldn't stand a chance in a tournament setting.

It's just life. If you want to stand a chance at winning a tournament or place well, then you'll have to tierwhore in some way (if not Top or High than at least "Not Bottom").

Loser. I have two words for you: Gimpy Fish. There was even a pro Mewtwo. Tiers don't matter as much as you think they do. It's very possible for a bottom tier character to beat a top tier one: it'll just happen like one quarter of the time.

 

[Corigames]

There was even a pro Mewtwo. Tiers don't matter as much as you think they do. It's very possible for a bottom tier character to beat a top tier one: it'll just happen like one quarter of the time.

You know who he is? He's Taj. #1 in AZ, best mewtwo player in the world. You know who he played in tournaments as? Marth, because he couldn't win as Mewtwo when in a serious match vs a good competitor. He only played Mewtwo for MM's, Friendlies, and against bad opponents. Things don't "just happen a quarter of the time," it takes skill to get bottom-tier characters to tournament level, something that even Taj wasn't comfortable doing.

 

[Giga Hand]

Well, the fact that you joined in 2008 is a red flag that you are probably not that good. It means that Brawl is your first smash and possibly your first fighter, and even those pale to the fact that you may still not have even competed in tournaments! Even if you entered in tournaments, have you entered in regional? National? Inter-national?

No, it means he joined in 2008, like me, who has been with Smash since the beginning. Join date means about as much as tiers, i.e. NOTHING! It's HOW you play that matters - A campy Peach destroyed Marth in Melee, whereas an aggressive Peach didn't stand a chance.

 

[Corigames]

I think you just proved his point.

 

[Giga Hand]

You know who he is? He's Taj. #1 in AZ, best mewtwo player in the world. You know who he played in tournaments as? Marth, because he couldn't win as Mewtwo when in a serious match vs a good competitor. He only played Mewtwo for MM's, Friendlies, and against bad opponents. Things don't "just happen a quarter of the time," it takes skill to get bottom-tier characters to tournament level, something that even Taj wasn't comfortable doing.

Yeesh. Touchy. I don't follow professional Smash, so don't blame me for being a little ignorant.

 

[Giga Hand]

The tier list destroys the game. If everyone followed it blindly like Yuna, the roster would shrink dramatically, making the game very boring. Noone would play it, and POOF! Smash is gone and Sakurai cries.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

I think that this goes for any character, but let me tell you my dilemma.
I've been playing with M a r t h since the game came out, and when I play with him... I usually win. I'm not being arrogant or cocky or anything... It is just that he is a broken character in my opinion. So I decided to take a different route. I decided to pick up P e a c h. In my opinion, she is much harder to play, so it is more rewarding to win.

But then this idea just dawned on me. She got Nerfed. Big time.

I understand that this is brawl, and we shouldn't be playing her the same as we did in melee. I don't think she is going to be High Tier again. So lets just say she is Mid tier.
Now... This may sound dumb, but I haven't seen a lot of Mid tiers make it very far professionally. Well, C. Falcon, yeah, XD S.S. ^^ But not a whole lot after that.
Sure there are good players that take up mid tiers, but... that brings up a whole new point...

How far can you possibly go with a Mid tier character? They are mid tier for a reason.
I guess the underlying question for this whole thing is.

Given ____ Isn't top/high tier, what is the point in trying to practice and get good, if you can't get as far as the characters above you?
If this made sense to anybody, help out. ^_^
Thanks for reading.

Stoopid april fools Joke. >.<
Smashboard filtering Ftl.​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

Different playstyles with different characters, match ups, counter picks, and just mixing it up in general. Especially in a game like smash bros where people's play styles are almost entirely different. Character match ups seem much more relevant in Brawl as well.

 

[Twin Dreams]

I'll try describing how tiers work again.


Tiers are decided not by the inherent abilities and potential in a character, but how well the character places in tournaments. So, if you had a tournament with all players of the exact same skill level, there would be a higher probability that the players with top tier characters will win.


So, whether a character is actually good or not is up to the player, the player must hone the skills necessary to beat higher tier opponents. You'll be fighting at a disadvantage.

 

[Eriatarka]

The tier list destroys the game. If everyone followed it blindly like Yuna, the roster would shrink dramatically, making the game very boring. Noone would play it, and POOF! Smash is gone and Sakurai cries.

There is no "blind following" of tiers. Why can't people people understand that some characters have advantages over others which therefore makes them the more preferable option in competetive play? I play as Kirby in Melee, because I like his playstyle, but I will get slaughtered aginst a good Marth every time because so many of Marths moves take priority over Kirbys. If I were to play against myself (ie. a totally even match of skill), my Marth would beat my Kirby every time because although I understand Kirby better, Marth just has better attributes, which add more to the benefits of raw skill.

But there is no reason why this would "destroy the game". The list of characters you can use in competitive play with a real hope of winning is certainly limited by some characters being better than others, but perhaps in Brawl we will find that there is more balance between the characters than in Melee and we will see the tournys become more of a mixed bag of characters. Although if one character emerges as a much better character than the rest in terms of speed/priority/power/comboing, then expect that character to become the tournament norm, just get used to it.

It doesn't mean the death of the other characters tho, you can still pick Yoshi if you're just playing for kicks against your friends and enjoy the experience. Remember that most people don't play Smash competitively and will still pick their favourite character, as opposed to the 'best' one.

 

[Yuna]

So just because they lost to a low-tier, they're bad players? Come on, I know you're smarter than that...that's just a ridiculous statement.

No, it's the fact that they're losing to a crappy character. They're bad. Either they're overall bad or they've only got experienced against the higher tiers, which also makes them bad (anyone with a low tier could **** them).

Zelda has pretty much nothing except Fair and Bair. If you're getting ***** by her, you're doing something cataclysmically wrong.

you *******es need a cawk slapping, there is no tierlist anymore, any character can be played if the controller is skilled enough & knows how to use the characters attributes

suck a fat one, i get so tired of hearing you kids making up lies

Yoshi, Samus, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf overwhelmingly disagree.

lol the point of using them, is that if you can become really good with a low tier char
IE Chudat with the melee IC's...
well, just about everyone knows Chudat, hell I'd argue he's probably better known than allot of the other top players, just 'cuz he's the guy that took the Ic's to the top, or there abouts
gimpyfish would be another example, but he's probably more known because he is constantly commenting on the forum, than because he is a good player.
****, sorry for all the spelling/ grammar, I'm thinking in French, got a big exam coming up, peace

IC's were never Low Tier. People just thought they were because for a long while, no one knew how to play them properly. Peach and Marth used to be Low Tier as well.

But then we discovered a whole bunch of things. The current tierlist of any game is based on what is currently known about all characters. If new things are discovered, then the list will change. At this very moment, things aren't looking very good for Ganondorf and Yoshi.

So you agree that Bowser is top tier then?

Also Yuna seems to think he's the best because he can beat "good players" with a "low tier Zelda" in melee and because of this I'm a "bad player"

I'm done here.

Reading comprehension seems to escape you.

You claimed Bowser is Top Tier because you can **** your friends with him. I countered with "Well, I can **** people with Zelda in Melee... doesn't make her Top Tier. It just makes my ***** opponents bad players."

You're a bad player because you think Bowser is Top Tier just because you are able to **** your friends with him. You're obviously new to competitive gaming in general if you believe the tierlist is decided by how well you can play a character vs. your friends. The tierlist is based on potential. If played to perfection or almost perfection, how will the characters fare against each other.

Not based on whether X-person can beat Y-person with Z-character. Azen could **** pretty decent to actually good players with Low Tier in Melee. He was unable to change the tierlist because of this, though, because he was never able to ever come close to winning a tournament with a Low Tier, though.

Wow. There are people actually arguing whether or not tier lists exist?

I have once again underestimated the Brawl Boards's stupidity.

You must not have been hanging around here a lot. It happens at least once a week.

I came 4th in Tournament using Link, the top two people used Marth and Sheik but I also beat a very skilled man when he used Marth...

What I'm trying to say is what Eriatarka said, tiers DO exist, but it doesn't mean instant win. It just gives the person who is using a top tier character the advantage

Link has an even matchup against Marth. His matchup against Sheik, I'm not so sure of. Are you a PAL player or an NTSC-player? That's pretty important as well. But overall, I don't think Sheik's got that huge an advantage on Link, especially not in PAL.

Individual matchups > Tiers. However, Tiers still exist.

Tiers are an overall look at how well characters fare against one another. A character can **** 95% of the cast yet have one unfavourable matchup against one Low Tier. Doesn't mean they aren't really, really good regardless.

Almost everyone in this topic don't understand how tiers work.



Tiers are given from tournament standings. So, characters that constantly rank higher, are higher on the tier list. The BEST character in the game would be on the bottom of the tier list if no one entered any tournaments with him. Tiers are not based on how good an actual character is, it's based on who wins tournaments.

Common misconception. Tiers are not based on tournament rankings alone. Sure, it plays a part (people might take a look at them), but people don't look at tournament rankings and make an algorithm based on that to determine the tierlist. The tierlist is based on overall potential.

For years, Ken won tournaments as Marth. However, Marth has never been better than 3rd best (now he's even 4th best). Sheik hasn't won many major tournaments in the past few years, yet she's still ranked above Marth, who's done better.

When was the last time you saw a Samus place high? Or a Ganondorf place anywhere (save for Eddie)? The Marios aren't played much at all, either. Meanwhile, Azen's placed Top 5 several times as low tiers but they have remained low tiers. Captain Falcon is the Top of Mid Tier... yet how many skilled Captain Falcons who always place high are there?

The Tierlist is based on overall potential. In a hypothetical situation of theory fighter, if two amazing players are playing against each other, how well should X and Y characters statistically fare? To base the tierlist on tournament placings, especially tournament placing alone, is not basing them on potential at all but at individual player skill.

At any time, there might be an inproportionate amount of good players as X-character despite the fact that the characters' potential isn't higher than Y-character who' ranked below them.

Care to tell me what Mario Kart DS's tier list is?

I haven't played MKDS but if it's like MKDD, then the Tierlist will be based on whose car is better (how fast it is vs. how sturdy it is against hazards and items) + which characters' specials are better. A tierlist for MKDS exists, even if it hasn't been written yet (or maybe it has). MKDD had a clear tierlist. People who wanted to win always chose certain characters + cars.

If Peach were to be, hypothetically, Bottom Tier, would you just drop her altogether after all the practice you've had and pick up a higher ranking character?

Tiers shouldn't determine which character you play as a whole. I, for one, can't look at a tier list, point to the very top one and think "I'll be good with them" and expect to be good. If a character I play was a low tier but I am most comfortable playing as, then so be it. I won't play my character to someone who I am uncomfortable with just because they are on the top.

Use tier lists as a guide, not a set-in-stone standard.

If Peach were to be Bottom Tier, there'd be a good reason for it. She'd be destroyed in almost all matchups (because Brawl isn't as balanced as GG where the Bottom Tiers can win tournaments). No matter how hard she worked, she would never be able to place higher than a certain point since that's when there'd only be skilled players left, players who'd destroy her because of her unfavourable matchups.

I'd give her up because she wouldn't be able to win, ever, unless the opponent screwed up or they happened to play a character that's a good matchup for her. This would be rare and I'd be consistently getting my *** handed to me in tournaments. If she's still fun to play as, then I might still keep her around for friendlies and to play against obviously lesser skilled people (like I did with Zelda in Melee).

But I'd never main her for tournaments. Because that'd be throwing money away.

The tier list destroys the game. If everyone followed it blindly like Yuna, the roster would shrink dramatically, making the game very boring. Noone would play it, and POOF! Smash is gone and Sakurai cries.

I don't follow the tierlist at all. I play whoever I think suits my style the most and who's the fun most. However, if I discover I'm almost always at a disadvantage, then I'll probably switch characters.

I would never take look at the tierlist and pick a High Tier/Top Tier character even if I dislike the way they play. This is why I've always played as Peach in Melee and never ever tried to get good as Fox, Falco, Sheik or Marth. My Zelda's better than my Sheik (she's my Low Tier).

Way to not follow any kind of discussion at all and make up inaccurate "facts" because reading comprehension eludes you.

GimpyFish has never won a major tournament or even placed high as Bowser (in Melee). That or I've missed some vital tournament results. Taj (the "pro" MewTwo player) has never placed that high with MewTwo alone, either. Players who play amazingly well as Low Tiers such as GimpyFish, Azen and Taj invariably lose once they reach a certain point in tournaments (they'll be lucky if they can make the Top 10) despite having the "Novelty Factor" on their side (a majority of players aren't used to fighting Luigi since few people play him well... doesn't mean he's Top Tier-material) or they switch out to Higher Tiered Characters once they have to face people playing characters who are really bad matchups for them or once they've just reached a point where only really skilled players remain.

Point me out to a single tournament where GimpyFish or Taj have ever placed Top 5 solely with their Low Tiers, please, and I'll give you 100 dollars.

You yourself admit to being ignorant of "professional" Smash. They why are you arguing aboutthings which require such knowledge? Really, people need to stop entering discussions about things they know nothing about.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

Yuna, why must you be so right?

You should seriously take a break though. You know that no matter how many times you tell them the truth, they'll just keep coming back for more. Pretty much the reason why I don't bother with tier arguments anymore.

 

[Phyvo]

Loser. I have two words for you: Gimpy Fish. There was even a pro Mewtwo. Tiers don't matter as much as you think they do. It's very possible for a bottom tier character to beat a top tier one: it'll just happen like one quarter of the time.

Yeesh. Touchy. I don't follow professional Smash, so don't blame me for being a little ignorant.

What do you expect when you try to support your argument with evidence about professional Smash, as subject you yourself admit you don't know much about? For someone to not tell you that you're mistaken would be surprising indeed. Why you think he was getting on your case and being "touchy" I don't know.

Yes, we have reverted back to this silly argument of tier existence.
Because, evidentially, everyone is equal in Brawl. Yoshi's can beat Marth and Donkey Kong can always beat a R.O.B..

Yeah, it's dumb isn't it?

What else could have happened though? When thousands of newbies join up because of brawl and don't know much about it, questioning of principles older posters find basic is bound to happen.

 

[Yuna]

No, it means he joined in 2008, like me, who has been with Smash since the beginning. Join date means about as much as tiers, i.e. NOTHING! It's HOW you play that matters - A campy Peach destroyed Marth in Melee, whereas an aggressive Peach didn't stand a chance.

I'm sorry, qué? A campy Peach might have faired pretty well against a Marth depending on both players' playing styles but in no way did a campy Peach destroy Marth... nor did it even make the matchup a favourable one.

The matchup isn't horrible, but in no way will camping help Peach destroy Marth, if the Marth is any good. When we talk about Tiers, we assume that both players in the game discussed are skilled and have knowledge or how to play against the other character.

When was the last time you saw an Amazing Peach destroy an Amazing Marth by camping?

 

[FrostByte]

When was the last time you saw an Amazing Peach destroy an Amazing Marth by camping?

Lolarmada.

Edit: Read the end of your post, nvm.