Iceblock Lock FAIL ?

[tomvanharmelen]

I posted a thread about Iceblock lock doing no damage at all in the general brawl board, but it got locked and it was better to go on with the thread here.
So, here it is.

Whenever performing the Iceblock lock, at a certain point the ice blocks % will diminish to lower than 1 %.
This happens because of the move becoming stale.
So far I guess is all known by all or at least many of you.
Now my question is:

Is the Iceblock lock still usefull after the Iceblock becomes completely stale ( like 5 blocks doing 1 % combined )

It seems after the point of 1 iceblock doing 1 % its use is just.. gone.

- it is not usefull anymore for racking up damage.
- it is not usefull anymore for spacing.

the first one is because it doesnt deal enough damage to even be of more use than jab...
the second one is because it will only get your opponent further away from you, for example..

you're standing at the right edge of FD and you use Ice block lock on your opponent, getting him/her all the way to the other end of FD, while in the mean time doing less and less damage because of the move becoming stale. furthermore you are losing the ability to use other attacks and leave yourself with less and less possibilities to keep control of that match/stock because the opponent is getting out of range.

So.. Is the Iceblock lock a failure because the IC's lack follow ups when out of range and the move becoming stale or not ?

 

[l!nk_aut]

i just use the lock to get my oppenent to the edge und then i run to him and try to nanameteor him.

it´s not useless

also u do a few ice blocks to build damage (until they get too stale) run to him and then grab and upsmash.

 

[FrozenHobo]

you mean against a wall? it's still useful in that it will keep doing damage... not a lot of damage, but still damage. by the time the staleness of the move kicks in they should have enough damage that a good smash attack will kill.

 

[tomvanharmelen]

Well no, not against a wall, against a wall you will still have all the options for spacing, attacking and planning available.

I meant specifically on stages that have more flat parts to use the ice block lock on.
On those, you won't have any other option than to just keep using those ice blocks till the opponent gets to the edge and can take control again

 

[B0mbe1c]

If you want you could try moving while IBLing, so you still have all your options.
Or, just do a chain of D/Fthrow -> Fair -> IB, grab and repeat.

 

[Kage Me]

But once they reached the edge, you'll have done some fair damage. Not to mention that a position near the edge is bad for anyone up against Ice Climbers, due to their grab-spike attack.

 

[JustNoOne]

What I love about Ice Block Lock is that it doesn't just rack up damage, but limits the options on where they can go. If they don't Smash DI the Ice Blocks, they will end up going to the edge, it's makes them move back and they can't do anything about it.... Unless they Smash DI the Ice Blocks that is, but even if they Smash DI the Ice Blocks, you still have a good understanding on where they will go and it kinda gives you a free hit.

It's not epic phailer that's for sure.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Huh, it stales to lower the damage?

The smaller the iceblock, the lower the damage by 1%.
The bigger the iceblock, the higher the damage by 3%.

As for 2%, that's for medium sized ones and they shrink fast to get 1%.

 

[tomvanharmelen]

they'll eventually get lower than 1%
i think it takes up to 5 ice blocks to deal 1 % at some point..


and at the person saying it's possible to move during the lock.. I've never seen anyone do that, that would probably cover all laws of the technique because then you'd be able to grab then when getting to the edge and finish it with a grab to meteor

 

[FrozenHobo]

a smart person won't be in an IBL long enough for the ice blocks to get stale. >_>

you usually get maybe 4 ice blocks on a stage like FD before they hit the edge and come back. the only time ice blocks would stale to the point where it would matter is on a walled stage like shadow mosses...

 

[tomvanharmelen]

Ive seen a video against a link on FD where it took like 5 blocks or so to do 1 damage... so no, it's possible..

It looks like it's better to use a few of them, then catch up on tyhe opponent while he's forced to stand up and then grab him..

 

[Melomaniacal]

As most people said, it's always useful for getting your opponent to the edge for an easy spike. Of course they could DI behind you, but I think everyone's first instinct is to get to the edge.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Ive seen a video against a link on FD where it took like 5 blocks or so to do 1 damage... so no, it's possible..

It looks like it's better to use a few of them, then catch up on tyhe opponent while he's forced to stand up and then grab him..

was it only five ice blocks? because then he was spamming them before he started the IBL. if it was part of a longer IBL then the guy was being an idiot and DIing into the chain. either way, they won't be in an IBL long enough for it to be that big of a deal. only IDIOTS get caught in one for more than 5 ice blocks, and, similarly, only and idiot would spam ice blocks and THEN put someone into and ice block lock.


its not a question of weakening ice blcoks because any ice climber with half an ounce of skill won't need to worry about it.

 

[K 2]

It's fun and it frustrates the heck out of your opponent, how is it fail?

Even if it takes 5 blocks to do 1% (it shouldn't unless they are ******** and DI towards the blocks), its still free damage.

Also, if your good, I think you can walk forward while IBL'ing. You can end with a smash or whatever.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Even if it takes 5 blocks to do 1% (it shouldn't unless they are ******** and DI towards the blocks), its still free damage.

thats what i'm trying to say: it shouldn't take that many unless its been going for a while or they've been spamming it.

 

[ignore the fire]

The ice block lock is not very practical.
The damage you give is close to the equivalent of a couple alt. throws.
Your opponent can tech the nana fair or smash DI to escape.
The only plus side to this is that it's an easy way to get to the edge once you've started the lock.
It's also very funny.

 

[legion598]

i personally never use the ice lock unless its on a character i find difficult to CG cuz theirs usually a better option

 

[tomvanharmelen]

The ice block lock is not very practical.
The damage you give is close to the equivalent of a couple alt. throws.
Your opponent can tech the nana fair or smash DI to escape.
The only plus side to this is that it's an easy way to get to the edge once you've started the lock.
It's also very funny.

Being able to grab a person means a stock lost for the opponent, so choosing between ice block lock and CG should be in favor of CG, at least i think so.

DI into the iceblocks should never be done unless you WANT the iceblocks to get stale, although i don't really see the advantage of that happening right now.

thinking about being able to move while using IBL, I think if you're not constantly doing that right, 1 simple button input error will cause the IBL to stop too early or you doing your side B which gives the opponent the chance to recover.

about that video.. I'm not even sure he was actually playing someone, I'll have to check that one in the locked topic in the general brawl boards and then put it back here.

 

[L_Cancel]

Well, in my opinion, the Ice Block lock does have it's uses, and almost always, I can follow the lock with a grab, and proceed to cg. A little, but overlooked benefit to the lock, is it helps to undecay your other moves.

 

[FrozenHobo]

its really nothing more than a showy way to piss off your opponent. plus once the get pushed to the ledge it forces them to approach which is very good for ICs.

otherwise its just for show.