Veng
Smash Ace
In my honest opinion I think they got a decent buff.
More damage, and one of the upper end Fsmashes.
More damage, and one of the upper end Fsmashes.
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IC = Nerf, or buff?
- Thread starter Veng
- Start date
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
Their u-smash and f-smash are some of the best in the game, though the d-smash has been worsened significantly. Jab-cancelling probably wouldn't be as useful with the lack of wavedashing, though I feel like it hasn't been removed, but is slower.
Blizzard is useless in grabbing now, but can actually be used as a short-ranged projectile and/or approach, and Squall Hammer is also a good approach now. Perfect shielding and shieldgrabbing are both easier, and we now have a new unescapable chaingrab which likely won't be banned.
Squall is sucky for recovery, but Belay is AMAZING. Lastly, for some reason, I feel like the Ice Climbers benefit from the increased character size and floatiness.
In all honesty, I can't make any case for them being buffed in Brawl, but as Brawl has a generally lower power level, their potential hasn't changed so much.
Blizzard is useless in grabbing now, but can actually be used as a short-ranged projectile and/or approach, and Squall Hammer is also a good approach now. Perfect shielding and shieldgrabbing are both easier, and we now have a new unescapable chaingrab which likely won't be banned.
Squall is sucky for recovery, but Belay is AMAZING. Lastly, for some reason, I feel like the Ice Climbers benefit from the increased character size and floatiness.
In all honesty, I can't make any case for them being buffed in Brawl, but as Brawl has a generally lower power level, their potential hasn't changed so much.
pixcalcis
Smash Cadet
You can still grab from a blizzard but it harder since it is harder to desynch. I think as a character, they are buffed up. Belay is so much better, I personally like the ice blocks now especially if you get in a stage with a dip in it as they will just keep going back and forth for so long now, squall hammer though not as good for recovery is much better to attack. Also, the new grab combo's are very promising and Nana's AI though still spotty, is much better.
However, though most of their moves have been buffed...the lack of wavedashing has killed their approach and pretty much, in my book, negates any advantages they may have had. Characters with long reach are harder to fight now in my opinion.
All in all, compared to the rest of the characters, Id say they are about in the same boat they were melee.
However, though most of their moves have been buffed...the lack of wavedashing has killed their approach and pretty much, in my book, negates any advantages they may have had. Characters with long reach are harder to fight now in my opinion.
All in all, compared to the rest of the characters, Id say they are about in the same boat they were melee.
Mosarani
Smash Cadet
Does no one else realize how gimped everyone else's throws are? In brawl you can neither kill with throws nor combo from throws (generally). Ice climbers can actually get kills directly from shield grabs with forward smash.
IC's needed wavedashing because otherwise they were one of the slowest characters in melee; this is no longer the case.
Up-b is drastically better and now two ice climbers can share a ledge. This, combined with the fact that now no one can carry nana across the stage ala melee falcon, is a considerable buff.
So IC's aren't the ridiculous infinite downthrow downair chaining wobbling wildcard that they were in melee, but they look to be on the plus side of the character midline.
IC's needed wavedashing because otherwise they were one of the slowest characters in melee; this is no longer the case.
Up-b is drastically better and now two ice climbers can share a ledge. This, combined with the fact that now no one can carry nana across the stage ala melee falcon, is a considerable buff.
So IC's aren't the ridiculous infinite downthrow downair chaining wobbling wildcard that they were in melee, but they look to be on the plus side of the character midline.
IronChief
Smash Journeyman
Nana smart now which makes them top teir.
GreenMarth
Smash Apprentice
i say they are buffed a whole bunch
they just have more PUNCH than they did b4 and the down B blizzard thing ***** now and even MORE when both of the hit it damage flys up =P
also i think they have seprate up B usages MEANING when nana takes it upon herself to NOT be an emo ***** and NOT kill herself she uses it for recoveries ... thats right she actualyl GIVES AN EFFORT now and they can both grab the ledge w/ up b Popo pulls up Nana to the edge and they both hold....and above all THE COLORS ARE COOLER! there's even one where theyre both the same color!
overall IC's are much more fun and stronger now and their moves do more damage and knockback...mostly knockback
~Bill
they just have more PUNCH than they did b4 and the down B blizzard thing ***** now and even MORE when both of the hit it damage flys up =P
also i think they have seprate up B usages MEANING when nana takes it upon herself to NOT be an emo ***** and NOT kill herself she uses it for recoveries ... thats right she actualyl GIVES AN EFFORT now and they can both grab the ledge w/ up b Popo pulls up Nana to the edge and they both hold....and above all THE COLORS ARE COOLER! there's even one where theyre both the same color!
overall IC's are much more fun and stronger now and their moves do more damage and knockback...mostly knockback
~Bill
billythegoat
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 212
THEY GOT BUFFED!!!!! FACT
they can still chain grab, but insted of it being depedent on having nana close to you and synched it now is preformed solo-popo(so-po), and instead of it working on about half to 2/3 of the cast it now works on everyone up to atleast 20 and on most people to 60. They'er down smash if sweet spotted will deal 44 damage and is full of win(fact: the sweet spot is if you and your opponents character modles are touching). Their blizzard has a bigger hit box AND more damage AND less lag AND more hit stun ftw. Their ice blocks have longer reach and more priority( it will destroy a fully charged aura sphere). Also their synched recovery is buffed. If all of this doesn't prove it then, you have not figured out how to make nana toad stool your enemys from the edge and you suck(fact).
they can still chain grab, but insted of it being depedent on having nana close to you and synched it now is preformed solo-popo(so-po), and instead of it working on about half to 2/3 of the cast it now works on everyone up to atleast 20 and on most people to 60. They'er down smash if sweet spotted will deal 44 damage and is full of win(fact: the sweet spot is if you and your opponents character modles are touching). Their blizzard has a bigger hit box AND more damage AND less lag AND more hit stun ftw. Their ice blocks have longer reach and more priority( it will destroy a fully charged aura sphere). Also their synched recovery is buffed. If all of this doesn't prove it then, you have not figured out how to make nana toad stool your enemys from the edge and you suck(fact).
Jellybelly
Smash Ace
For me It's the little things that I've noticed since playing the IC's in brawl.
Popo and Nana on the same ledge. This seems like such a small thing when in fact it was something that the melee Ice climbers would have killed for. Tether belay is amazing, It was very easy before to sacrifice Nana in exchange for a stock but now they just sweetspot the ledge.
I also like the fact that Nana in her effort to recover on her own will use her 3rd (though nearly useless) jump. In melee sometimes Nana could have saved herself with a 3rd jump but instead she fell. This in my eyes is another improvement.
Both squall hammer and blizzard feel better. Squall hammer just feels tighter, and it apparently has invincibility frames on startup. It's just a far better move offensively than it was before. I also feel that blizzard freezes more often than before.
I like d-air, I swear that move has some super armour frames on it. And the Ice climbers are
one of the only characters who can still effectively use throws, whether it be with chain grabbing or c sticking Nana (one my favourite strategies.)
I could list there nerfs but I've already written to much. IMO the IC's haven't really moved up a tier or moved down a tier. There still solid, mid/high tier characters.
Popo and Nana on the same ledge. This seems like such a small thing when in fact it was something that the melee Ice climbers would have killed for. Tether belay is amazing, It was very easy before to sacrifice Nana in exchange for a stock but now they just sweetspot the ledge.
I also like the fact that Nana in her effort to recover on her own will use her 3rd (though nearly useless) jump. In melee sometimes Nana could have saved herself with a 3rd jump but instead she fell. This in my eyes is another improvement.
Both squall hammer and blizzard feel better. Squall hammer just feels tighter, and it apparently has invincibility frames on startup. It's just a far better move offensively than it was before. I also feel that blizzard freezes more often than before.
I like d-air, I swear that move has some super armour frames on it. And the Ice climbers are
one of the only characters who can still effectively use throws, whether it be with chain grabbing or c sticking Nana (one my favourite strategies.)
I could list there nerfs but I've already written to much. IMO the IC's haven't really moved up a tier or moved down a tier. There still solid, mid/high tier characters.
Scala
Smash Ace
um, the dsmash has not been nerfed, you can do nearly 60 damage with it in ideal situations...
Shinku
Smash Champion
no more wobbles, big time nerf =(
The_Smash_Champ
Banned via Warnings
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2005
- Messages
- 397
I now main IC's because of their incredible buffs from melee. Their chaingrabs are easier to learn than before, and they have a chaingrab with every throw except the u-throw. The F-trhow is amazing and they can rack up damage quick. Their best killing mover is the F-throw to nana usmash. Its amazing how good they are. Popo can even chain grab by himself, wow how did that happen?! they can desynch too, and i personally think its good and bad. Good because its easier to desynch in the dash dance but bad because no more desynch from dodges. But whatever, you can still desynch->iceblock->run grab and start the combos.
Oh yeah, i dont recomend playing pikachu, diddy kong or metaknight with them, nana will get *****.
Oh yeah, i dont recomend playing pikachu, diddy kong or metaknight with them, nana will get *****.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Buffs:
1) Better recovery: both IC's can now grab the ledge at once, you can get much more height off of SideB, and UpB now sweetspots ledges.
2) Nana AI: she'll now use UpB and SideB to recovery when she's on her own.
3) Grabs: can still 0 to death people off of a single grab. Chaingrabs work on every character and cannot be escaped.
4) Approach: even with the lack of wavedashing their approach actually seems better since NeutralB and SideB got buffed, and you can do sheild dashes.
Nerfs:
1) Desynching: overall, it's just harder to desynch.
Pretty much I think the IC's are better than their Melee counter parts.
1) Better recovery: both IC's can now grab the ledge at once, you can get much more height off of SideB, and UpB now sweetspots ledges.
2) Nana AI: she'll now use UpB and SideB to recovery when she's on her own.
3) Grabs: can still 0 to death people off of a single grab. Chaingrabs work on every character and cannot be escaped.
4) Approach: even with the lack of wavedashing their approach actually seems better since NeutralB and SideB got buffed, and you can do sheild dashes.
Nerfs:
1) Desynching: overall, it's just harder to desynch.
Pretty much I think the IC's are better than their Melee counter parts.