I wanna try Project M, but...

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

WHEN DID I EVEN SAY THAT. I said that Brawl was simply a good game and that I like what it did for the series. But I never called it the best.

However it is my favorite simply cause I'm a semi-casual.

I was talking about Sakurai

 

[Eisen]

I understand where he's coming from. It may be unwarranted, but it's not "ridiculous" per se. I think some of you are taking it the wrong way.

Think of it like this: Would you be happy if someone came out with an even better Smash mod than Project M just before 3.0 and destroyed all the hype you'd built up? For people not immersed in our community, I'm sure it can be hard to accept at first that something might be more fun than a game they've been anticipating. It's like a huge buzzkill, in a way; like when someone retorts to your happiness of an accomplishment with "Well, guess what I did that was even better?"

This guy doesn't want his hype killed, that's all. Or at least, that's how I'm taking it. Personally, while I understand I don't quite sympathize. I love Project M, but I am sure there's something about Smash 4 I'll enjoy. Perhaps not as much or for as long, but still. We don't even know much of ANYTHING about the game yet, so it's hard to judge.

My perspective is that each game has something that others do not. Even if Project M is technically "Brawl but more fun/better", there are some people who prefer Brawl's physics and the horrid tiers and thus less matchups to learn, etc. It is also an "official" game, which attracts a lot more players than a mod might initially do. Thus, there's a social benefit to playing Brawl over Project M for some, though for others those benefits aren't enough to warrant playing it.

I on occasion play Brawl, though rarely. I find that despite its shortcomings, it's sometimes nice to mix things up. Smash 4 will likely be the same.

To the OP, it is essentially up to you to decide what is best. Have confidence in yourself, observe the facts and what each game has to offer, and then conclude as to how much desire you have for both in an honest assessment. Sometimes, while it may be hard, you may have to accept that one thing will not have the content that the other will.

So basically, if you really want to try Project M, do it. Keep an open mind for Smash 4, and wait for upcoming information on the game that may pique your interest. I just wouldn't hold expectations for something that isn't known much about. Nor would I assume that Sakurai will go out of his way to please certain players.

 

[LeeYawshee]

I was talking about Sakurai

Ah, I misunderstood. My apologies.

 

[Generically Epic]

I have this concern too, but Project M is most likely superior to all previous and future versions of smash.

 

[Saito]

I have this concern too, but Project M is most likely superior to all previous and future versions of smash.

Competitively.

I can't say the same for casually.

 

[Generically Epic]

Competitively.

I can't say the same for casually.

For casuals that belongs to brawl minus

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Can you not play a competitive game casually?

It was years before people figured out how scarily deep Melee was. In the meantime all the kids/teens were concerned with spamming Falcon Punch while hopping all over the place, as well as trying to hit EVERY. SINGLE. CREDIT at the end of Classic Mode to try to unlock Toad. I know I was in that group.

Plus lots of kids who played Street Fighter loved how hammy they could make everyone sound with their attack yells and such.

 

[Saito]

Can you not play a competitive game casually?

You can, but most of the time, the one that caters more to the casual crowd, ends up being the better game casually.

Most of the time.

 

[Brim]

This is most certainly a legitimate concern, for you. But, to be perfectly fair it's more than understandable to see why you'd feel this way. Smash 4 will be more stable than Project M in most cases, but competitively PM will typically be the preferred game, it depends, more or less, on which you want: a competitive game, or a fun game?
They can be both, but more often than not, they're usually one or the other, and to top it all off Smash was initially a party game compared to something that's a staple game of fighting tournaments.

 

[trojanpooh]

Think of it like this: Would you be happy if someone came out with an even better Smash mod than Project M just before 3.0 and destroyed all the hype you'd built up?

Why wouldn't I? Obviously I want to play the best game I can, I don't care where it comes from, I just want to play it. If a better game comes along it doesn't destroy the hype, it just transfers it to something else.

 

[Eisen]

Maybe that's the case for you, but it would feel very out of place for me to just give up Project M for a mod that was clearly superior, only because I've been immersed a deep part of this community for a while now. Not saying I wouldn't move on, but it would be pretty jarring.

 

[Saito]

I never forget the roots.

Sure I like Project M better than the other three iterations, but that doesn't mean I won't give them the time of day anymore. I'll still drop by to smash them on their own playground. Or get smashed. Whichever happens.

Just because an even better game comes out doesn't mean I can't go back and play the classics.

 

[Strong Badam]

Competitively.

I can't say the same for casually.

Other than SSE not working, what's wrong with PM casually? It has more characters and stages than Brawl, lol.

 

[Ginge]

The friends I play with for some reason do vBrawl for competitive play, and Project M for casual. I don't really get it....

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The friends I play with for some reason do vBrawl for competitive play, and Project M for casual. I don't really get it....

What sort of alternate dimensional hellscape do you inhabit

 

[Ginge]

They somehow started playing Smash Bros with Brawl. And prefer it to Melee. And prefer Melee to Project M. I guess they view it at the same level as Brawl- ? I honestly can't describe it. Because it makes no sense to me.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

They somehow started playing Smash Bros with Brawl. And prefer it to Melee. And prefer Melee to Project M. I guess they view it at the same level as Brawl- ? I honestly can't describe it. Because it makes no sense to me.

Brawl certainly got me into Smash and I enjoyed it a ton for that reason. However I was always dissatisfied with the massive disparity in tiers. While I *do* prefer faster gameplay that is more offensive and combo-oriented I wouldn't honestly give a crap about any of that if my character can actually take on the majority of the cast and have a decent shot at winning. So for that reason I can never really give Brawl the time of day anymore.

So yeah I'm confused as well lol

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I guess they view it at the same level as Brawl- ? I honestly can't describe it. Because it makes no sense to me.

Brawl-? *shivers*
Words cannot express my distaste for that thing.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The friends I play with for some reason do vBrawl for competitive play, and Project M for casual. I don't really get it....

Maybe they are like me and don't really care to get involved in it.

It's fun for sure, I'd play it over smash 64 anyway, I just don't really wanna get invested in it like Melee and Brawl.

I don't hate PM, I just don't really like it enough to wanna go deeper in it.

 

[Ginge]

The main problem was the lack of Project M players at my college while I was there. There'd be 50+ people at a Brawl tournament, but I'd guess around 10 of them had played Project M, 5 played it semi-consistently, and only 3 of us had it on our own consoles.

It's the main reason that basically every time Brawl was going on at the lounge on campus, I'd eventually get people to agree to load up Project M. Failing that, to load up Melee instead.

Edit:

@Red Ryu: I view it as something really fun to do. I'm not going to ever get competition level in it, but I just enjoy playing it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That's fine, but I do wonder with the friend part though.

What is it you don't get if they are your friends why they would play brawl tourney wise but not PM. Something just doesn't click, you don't get it. But I feel like you haven't asked them why they do.

 

[trojanpooh]

Maybe that's the case for you, but it would feel very out of place for me to just give up Project M for a mod that was clearly superior, only because I've been immersed a deep part of this community for a while now. Not saying I wouldn't move on, but it would be pretty jarring.

I was deeply immersed in the community of Melee before Project M came along. Again, I don't see what your point is. More good games is always a good thing. There's no reason not to want something better at all times.

 

[Saito]

Other than SSE not working, what's wrong with PM casually? It has more characters and stages than Brawl, lol.

Playing PM casual is amazing like any other smash brothers game. I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I just think that from a casual mindset it doesn't provide the best casual experience.

I'd probably say it has to do with the Stage changes and the Air dodge mechanics. While seemingly minuscule, a lot of people really seemed to like stages like the lava infested norfair and the "unpredictable" spear pillar. This could just be in my own town, but the people in this town are the only people I've had a chance to get reception from.

Air dodge mechanics seem to have better reception casually because they can dodge multiple attacks in the air, along with acting after dodging. This is again, in my own town.


I'm not being fair with my rating though. I haven't factored in Turbo mode yet. That is one of the most unique experience in a smash game ever. The problem is that I haven't had any casuals to play Turbo mode to see how much they would or wouldn't like it. So I can only make assumptions. (I think they would enjoy the mode greatly though.)

I also haven't factored in casuals that would probably love the game but are too stubborn to play it because "It's a mod."

This isn't to say that every casual likes Brawl over Project M either. Everyone has their own tastes as well. I know quite a bit of casuals that think that the PMBR should just take over development for all future smash brothers games.

Edit : This does not represent my own views. (Except maybe spear pillar, but I'd just stage expansion Saffron city back in anyway.)
I know for a fact that Project M is currently my favorite experience with Super Smash Brothers.

There's only one thing that can make it even better.

 

[Ginge]

That's fine, but I do wonder with the friend part though.

What is it you don't get if they are your friends why they would play brawl tourney wise but not PM. Something just doesn't click, you don't get it. But I feel like you haven't asked them why they do.

- One of the guys only plays Brawl. He barely even likes playing Melee, but he does it if it's what we're playing that day.
- One of the guys is like you. They're already invested in the Brawl and Melee metagames and don't feel like playing another. I think he's also said that it wasn't enough like Melee for him (but the last version he played with us was 2.5 I think).
- One of the guys actually has a few characters he's good at in Brawl, but he rarely plays because he feels he's not good enough. I feel bad because I've actually lost more matches against him than I've won, but he's so down on himself about playing that he tends to watch over playing.
- One of the guys ONLY plays as Kirby and ONLY plays Brawl. So him not being in Project M until recently meant he never joined us when we played.


I get that they have reasons to stick with Brawl/Melee over Project M. But I'm personally just really tired of Brawl. I would literally have Melee and a Gamecube memory card (and Project M on an SD Card) in my backpack at all times. And I take any opportunity I can to play one of those over Brawl *IF* people are interested. If not, oh well. I can play Brawl and still enjoy myself. Just for shorter doses.

 

[Saito]

-
- One of the guys actually has a few characters he's good at in Brawl, but he rarely plays because he feels he's not good enough.

You don't know how much I hate this mindset.

I've got one of those type in my main group, only he is the worst out of us 5. That's not to say he can't keep up. But he doesn't win any 1v1's (we don't really play 1v1 anyway)

He always gets down when he loses or doesn't get a significant number of kills (he claims that the kill amount is what he uses to measure up where he stands compared to the rest of us)

I just wish that instead of complaining all the time about what he can't do; that he would keep trying to improve so he could do it.

 

[Smo]

If this is regarding that statement he made to the person that mailed him a letter, I still think that people are taking that out of context.

If not, then correct me and then proceed to disregard this statement.

Here you go

 

[Saito]

Here you go

I have to argue that he never said he didn't like competitive play in that.

It’s not like I think that serious competition is not interesting. It’s
good to have equals fighting intensely.

I can't get behind Sakurai's mindset.

Unless he takes out the "winner" screen, you can't stop competition.

Hell, even without one people will still compete with each other in other ways.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

- One of the guys only plays Brawl. He barely even likes playing Melee, but he does it if it's what we're playing that day.
- One of the guys is like you. They're already invested in the Brawl and Melee metagames and don't feel like playing another. I think he's also said that it wasn't enough like Melee for him (but the last version he played with us was 2.5 I think).
- One of the guys actually has a few characters he's good at in Brawl, but he rarely plays because he feels he's not good enough. I feel bad because I've actually lost more matches against him than I've won, but he's so down on himself about playing that he tends to watch over playing.
- One of the guys ONLY plays as Kirby and ONLY plays Brawl. So him not being in Project M until recently meant he never joined us when we played.


I get that they have reasons to stick with Brawl/Melee over Project M. But I'm personally just really tired of Brawl. I would literally have Melee and a Gamecube memory card (and Project M on an SD Card) in my backpack at all times. And I take any opportunity I can to play one of those over Brawl *IF* people are interested. If not, oh well. I can play Brawl and still enjoy myself. Just for shorter doses.

Ok fair enough.

 

[Caryslan]

Project M is amazing, but can we give Smash 4 a chance to come out before we all assume it will be a broken, uncompetitive game? Sakurai has already said that tripping is gone, the game will be faster than Brawl, and its aiming for a middle ground between Melee and Brawl. On top of that, characters like Bowser look like they have been given top to bottom changes, and the game looks like its avoiding many of the pitfalls that Brawl had.

Something I want to point out is that Project M while an amazing mod, is built from an existing game and was created with one goal in mind. On top of that, it also did not face the issues of a development schedule or a deadline. The team has enough time to take Project M and balance things out properly. Plus, for allt he work that they did, 85-90% of the game was already built for them. Compare that to a game that has to be built from scratch, and is aimed at a more general audience.

No, I'm not letting Brawl off the hook, but the Wii U can accept patches for its games. Why are people thinking patches won't come out for Smash 4 that balances thigns out? The fact that Namco is involved means other fighting game developers are on the Smash 4 team as well.

It may never surpass Melee, but I think Smash 4 will be better than Brawl was and maybe even 64. As good as Project M is, I'll play Smash 4 when it comes out. I may even prefer it in the end. I just wish people would stop acting like Smash 4 will be a pile of junk before the game even comes out, especially when we have seen little of the game already. At the very least, Sakurai has admitted Brawl's flaws, and it taking some steps to fix those issues.

I think Smash 4 will surprise alot of people. It may not be a Melee 2.0, but I think it might still be a good competitive game, even if its at the level that 64 was.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I don't even think Smash 4 will be too bad, in fact it probably WILL fix a lot of Brawl's flaws.

I just wish the community didn't have to be divided. Even more so if MLG decides to pick smash 4 up. This wouldn't be as much a problem if Brawl ended up being the sequel a lot of Melee players wanted it to be in the first place.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Project M is amazing, but can we give Smash 4 a chance to come out before we all assume it will be a broken, uncompetitive game? Sakurai has already said that tripping is gone, the game will be faster than Brawl, and its aiming for a middle ground between Melee and Brawl. On top of that, characters like Bowser look like they have been given top to bottom changes, and the game looks like its avoiding many of the pitfalls that Brawl had.

Something I want to point out is that Project M while an amazing mod, is built from an existing game and was created with one goal in mind. On top of that, it also did not face the issues of a development schedule or a deadline. The team has enough time to take Project M and balance things out properly. Plus, for allt he work that they did, 85-90% of the game was already built for them. Compare that to a game that has to be built from scratch, and is aimed at a more general audience.

No, I'm not letting Brawl off the hook, but the Wii U can accept patches for its games. Why are people thinking patches won't come out for Smash 4 that balances thigns out? The fact that Namco is involved means other fighting game developers are on the Smash 4 team as well.

It may never surpass Melee, but I think Smash 4 will be better than Brawl was and maybe even 64. As good as Project M is, I'll play Smash 4 when it comes out. I may even prefer it in the end. I just wish people would stop acting like Smash 4 will be a pile of junk before the game even comes out, especially when we have seen little of the game already. At the very least, Sakurai has admitted Brawl's flaws, and it taking some steps to fix those issues.

I think Smash 4 will surprise alot of people. It may not be a Melee 2.0, but I think it might still be a good competitive game, even if its at the level that 64 was.

1) Sakurai has a irrational hatred for competitive games.
2) Brawl air dodge
3) No L-Canceling
4) It`s not being made from scratch, it`s most likely being made off of Brawl`s engine and they copy over returning characters 1:1 from brawl before making changes too them.
5) Why would Sakurai balance patch a game he doesn`t want to be competitive?

 

[Renji64]

If smash 4 has combos is fun to play and decent for competive play i will play it but if it is like brawl slow boring defensive and campy/full of cheap tactics rather than skill i'll pass.

 

[Renji64]

1) Sakurai has a irrational hatred for competitive games.
2) Brawl air dodge
3) No L-Canceling
4) It`s not being made from scratch, it`s most likely being made off of Brawl`s engine and they copy over returning characters 1:1 from brawl before making changes too them.
5) Why would Sakurai balance patch a game he doesn`t want to be competitive?

Good points.

 

[Ginge]

I'm going to play Smash 4 no matter what. I'll be getting it for my 3DS since I don't own a Wii U. And if I like it enough, I might consider buying a Wii U and picking up Smash 4 and a few of the other games that have been "I'd play that if I had a Wii U".

At the very least, I will continue to play N64, Melee, and Project M. Smash 4 will just knock Brawl out of my playlist. The only reason I play Brawl is it is the current iteration and is just what the more casual players are more likely to be playing (not into it enough to do a mod, might have missed Melee or not played it in years). So Smash 4 will effectively eliminate my need for Brawl.

Kirby being in v3.0 was the final nail in the coffin for my Brawl solo-play, though.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

The only way I can see Smash 4 being competitive is if hitstun is longer allowing actual combos. It's not going to be faster than Melee which has been stated already and there are no directional airdodges or Lcanceling. Hitsun is Smash 4's only competitive hope so far.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

The only way I can see Smash 4 being competitive is if hitstun is longer allowing actual combos. It's not going to be faster than Melee which has been stated already and there are no directional airdodges or Lcanceling. Hitsun is Smash 4's only competitive hope so far.

It really doesn`t matter anyway. We really arn`t discussing if it will be played competitively, we are just discussing how long it will take for Melee fans to realize that Competitive Smash is dead. I mean they`re STILL hosting Brawl tournaments.

 

[9bit]

Melee will never die. Doubt and incredulity only make it grow stronger..!

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Melee will never die. Doubt and incredulity only make it grow stronger..!

Well I meant future games being competitive is never going to happen. Sakurai has sadly learned from his "mistakes" and won`t let a "abomination" like Melee ever happen again.

 

[CORY]

5) Why would Sakurai balance patch a game he doesn`t want to be competitive?

because it got competitive. gotta keep that **** in check, yo!

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

It really doesn`t matter anyway. We really arn`t discussing if it will be played competitively, we are just discussing how long it will take for Melee fans to realize that Competitive Smash is dead. I mean they`re STILL hosting Brawl tournaments.

Yeah. I don't really care in the slightest in Smash 4 is competitive that's what I have PM for. I just want Smash 4 to be fun and Sakurai is pretty consistent with that part.