I hope that what I'm hearing isn't true...

[Radical Dreamer]

Chudat, Mango, Hugs and Luigi Kamaster say hi.

Fact is, Sonic, Captain Falcon, and Ganondorf will never win any major Brawl tournaments.

 

[Fabrian]

Sonic? have you played yet? captain falcon and ganondorf are debatable.
Especially ganondorf, since he is purely mindgames, and if he gets you to the ground you shouldn't allowed back up. If he's good that is.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Because Sonic has such amazing options out of it, right? Not enough to compete with high tiers. I was using that **** before some *** named himself after it.

But I guess it puts Mewtwo's space animal death combos and IC infinites to shame, m i rite?

 

[Big Burn]

If Halo 2 and 3 are any example of how online play and new game mechanics can change things, Brawl is going to destroy Melee. The fact that you can compete online will keep this craze going for a long time. Sure, people will still get together to compete on Melee, but I'm certain those numbers will be significantly diminished. Melee was a great game (I loved it), but brawl has online play and a ton of new content (and don't forget sonic and snake).

Now, I do agree that Brawl has its flaws. I think anyone who played Melee competitively will agree that the slower speed and altered mechanics took a sour turn, but I don't think that these flaws are enough to stop the widespread appeal. And, honestly, just because most people can pick this game up and play it easier than they could with Melee is not reason to assume that Brawl won't use skill. Skill exists in every competitive game, and from what I've seen I don't think Brawl is any exception.

online play is so laggy with brawl it won't help the competetive scene with ****...

 

[Fabrian]

Because Sonic has such amazing options out of it, right? Not enough to compete with high tiers. I was using that **** before some *** named himself after it.

But I guess it puts Mewtwo's space animal death combos and IC infinites to shame, m i rite?

That first paragraph was confusing...
But anyways sonic can compete with high tier easily.

Mewtwo isn't gonna make it in the finals no matter wat tactics you can pull off his butt... IC as well... If the players are of equal level I doubt they'll beat all the marths, foxes, peaches, falcos and falcons in the pre eliminaries.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

The first paragraph referred to what you wrote before you edited your post.

Lol at your IC's comment. Tell that to Chudat and Wobbles who have already done it for years.

 

[Fabrian]

The first paragraph referred to what you wrote before you edited your post.

Lol at your IC's comment. Tell that to Chudat and Wobbles who have already done it for years.

Oh your talking about the tech? well that was some japanese guy who found it a while back probably before you had the game...
I know chudat... I have his Aim I've seen him play.. If that's the only competition you've got with IC then forget it... He's probably gonna get beat by someone who's better on the way up... Wobbles I don't know as well. I'm talking big tournaments, not your bi weekly 8-16 with your locals...

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Big tournaments like Super Champ Combo where Chudat beat great high tier players like Ken and Azen, and where Wobbles beat Ken? Big tournaments like Pound 2, where Chudat took first place over Mew2king?

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Fabrian]

So? that doesn't prove me wrong on my main statement in anyway apart that IC aren't terrible characters. Since I already know chu dat I know what he's won... and from what you've shown me it's rare...
I was not even talking people btw... you brought that in yourself; I was speaking of characters. Those 2 ice climbers can be considered outliers and knowledge of statistics proves that as a fact.

But by tally, fact remains that Falcon, Sheik, fox, falco and marth are what you'll see the most because of a huge lack in balance between most of the characters.

High tier players of the same country are a bad example because they play each other often.

I said 15 marths 10 shieks 5 fox 5 falcons, and you gave me chudat luigi kemaster... like as if the US is the centre of the universe and the people you mentioned are the majority.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

You used used BS support for a BS claim, and it was shown to be entirely contrary to fact. You said you don't even recall Ice Climbers winning anything highly competitive, when Chudat has gotten 2nd and 3rd at most of the "big tournaments," and even a few 1st place finishes. In doing so, he has beaten the best Foxes, Marths, Falcons, Falcos and Peaches in the world. He doesn't win all the time, but neither do Mew2King and PC Chris.

Don't be surprised when the top 8 for Brawl tournaments will be Metaknight, Metaknight, Marth, Pit, Wolf, Marth, Pit, Metaknight. Don't be surprised when Ganondorf and Captain Falcon are a rarity in tournaments.

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Fabrian]

Lol good job at avoiding the facts... Ic aren't that bad, but do you ever compare the #s of wins in different areas?

Cough... If you've failed to do that then don't talk... You gave me SPECIFIC PEOPLE, THAT IS IRRELEVANT...

I'm not looking at chudat's history... I'm looking at IC, and that one or 2 1st places done by pro specialized ice climbers are unsignificant compared to the 100-120 fox/marth first places...

 

[Radical Dreamer]

I'm not talking about your local biweekly with 10 people. I'm talking about big tournaments troll.

 

[Fabrian]

yeah too bad you don't know about the tournaments outside your country.
You're avoiding too much of the facts I put to support my arguments to have a proper conversation... and you are not providing your own. >.> show me some stats.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Who the hell cares about the smash scene in Nicaragua or Ethiopia? The only tournaments that matter are the ones in the US, Japan, and where ever the hell in Europe that EK and Amsah are from.

 

[Fabrian]

Wow sadly you're doing a really bad job at defending your case, this is over... I do not need to respond to that.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

First off, no, I don't play smash bros of any kind competitively. Now then, in melee, there is probably 4, maybe 5 characters that can battle effectively in a tournament. Everyone else is sure to lose. Why? Too slow at wave-dashing and all other technical aspects of the game. Glitches don't give the game "infinite" depth (only 4, 5 techniques don't constitute "infinite"). These 4-5 characters don't give the game any depth whatsoever in the tournament scene, so that argument is invalid. Also, these glitches aren't more options. It's less. Because of the effectiveness of these techs, all other "options" are obsoleted. 1 Player (let's say Donkey Kong) can't compete effectively against a glitch-abusing player (Using Fox for the sake of argument) spamming wave-dashing and diamond-shining crap. This eliminates traditional play and only allows your "technical" aspects of the game any headway. Because of this, this eliminates a good 75% of the roster. That's seriously lacking some options there. I'm not saying that I play only for the visual aesthetics, far from it. It's just that because of brawl's balance (or melee's lack thereof) allows more characters to be a viable choice for tournament play, rather then the default Fox/Shiek/Marth bullcrap. Gameplay depth isn't about how fast and effectively you can defeat someone using the same ~3 characters over and over, but rather what you can accomplish on the battlefield to have the best time possible with any or all characters.

Note: Quasi-intellectual bull**** burning on the tip of your tongue doesn't make you look any smarter; just makes you come off more like an *******. This is all heresay.

tl;dr Brawl has more options and gameplay depth because you can use more characters effectively then in melee.

Time to rip this apart like an ISO.

Of course you have a good paradigm of what the competitive scene is, amirite?

Let us see: Fox, Marth, Sheik, Falco, Peach, Jigglypuff, ICs, Samus, Falcon. It's approximately 9 or 10, actually: twice your approximation. Also, isn't it great how you fail to realize that Falco's wavedash is slow? Peach and Jigglypuff rarely wavedash if at all, etc.

No it doesn't. All it does it add more, and restrict the options of your opponent. Advanced techniques are simply additions to things in the game. Advanced techniques do not make ANYTHING obsolete. They just make their usage more specific and limited. Wavedashing doesn't make rolling obsolete. Competitive players still roll. Ledgehop techniques and wavelanding don't make get-up attacks, ledge rolling, and getting up useless. L-cancelling does nothing except forcing your opponent to be better at timing. Short-hopping doesn't make full-hopping useless. Jump-cancelling doesn't.. even touch anything. Waveshining isn't as "broken" as you think. It's not an auto-win. All it does is help combo. There are MANY ways to counter it. Advanced techniques simply build upon basic ones. Learning higher-level math doesn't make knowing how to add fractions useless, does it? In my (short) math experience thus far, most higher level (I'm only a freshman at the moment) math processes are simply sequences made up of elementary things. Sure, there are entirely new concepts that come into play, but it doesn't make the basics obsolete.

That's kinda the point of competitive play: play to win and survival of the fittest. Also, a "glitch-abusing" Fox player can still be easily bested by a DK player that knows what they're doing. This DK player, however, probably would be short-hopping and l-cancelling. Many things used in competitive play aren't even "advanced" in the slightest bit. Edgeguarding isn't really advanced; it just doesn't seem to be of much importance to casual players.

I can't believe I'm saying this line, but "the game has only been out for a month." Tiers will eventually be created, and some characters will be worse than others. Right now, the game's slow gameplay with shallow metagame is what makes the game so balanced. I can usually just use characters by picking them up just like that in Brawl. Depth is about the ability to use things such as stimuli and predictions to manipulate others, and reacting to said tactics. Melee encourages depth because making mistakes can be punished very violently, while in Brawl, a mistake can only cost you around 10 percent or so.

...says the person who tried to use "obsolete" as a verb. You also try to talk about this material as if you have a clue what the competitive scene is like. gb2/v/

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Of course Brawl will take over the scene. Brawl introduces new gameplay mechanics, get's rid of those ridiculous glitches, and makes the game less of a chore to play. I'm all for emergent gameplay (I play GunZ, and we're the kings of EG), but Brawl replacing Melee because it's more balanced is only logical. People crying because of Melee's replacement needn't apply; they're afraid of change and the good that comes with it.

Thats funnny. You talk about Meele having glitches when all the adv.techs were intended into the gameplay. But where Gunz had screwy animation canceling and K-style came to life. MAIET didn't even intend to put any of that in but kept it because it made the majority of players happy.

You really need to get your **** together before you start typing.

 

[Puffer]

The only true "glitch" I can think of that Melee has is wavedashing, although that's a pretty big stretch...I'd call it more of an exploit of the physics engine in the game.

The majority of the other advanced techniques were obviously intended to be in the game (judging by the fact that they were all in the previous Smash game, SSB for the N64); teching, L-canceling, dash-dancing, shield-canceling, etc., were all intentionally put in by the developers, in my opinion. At the very least, they were AWARE of them since they were in SSB64 as well.

Other than that, Melee also expanded a bit on edgeguarding (giving characters a "jump" option while recovering from a ledge and also extending the amount of time that a ledge is "ungrabbable" by a recovering character after being edgehogged by an opponent) and added dodging (both normal dodging and directional air dodging) to the gameplay.

Thus, as a whole, Melee had more options available to the players. As was mentioned before, the "advanced techniques" are actually not very advanced at all - they just require you to KNOW what they are and practice them like you practice the "normal" techniques of the game. Since most people don't know about them when they first start playing, therefore, they're called "advanced."

As for things like waveshining, drillshining, chaingrabbing, and other "cheap" things, you can't really call those "glitches" either. Again, like wavedashing, they're more like exploits - in this case they're just repetitions of certain move combinations that turn out to be extremely effective. However, they're not exactly "game-breaking" and there's always a way to avoid or counter them as well. If you actually take the time to look at what each one consists of, it's easy to see that they're not really "glitches", either: Waveshining consists of shining your opponent with Fox, wavedashing close to them, and shining again (rinse and repeat). Drillshining is similar: use Falco's down-air on an opponent, L-cancel, shine, and then either hit them in the air or knock them back down and repeat the process. Chaingrabbing is just "grabspamming" with a bit of prediction involved as to which way your opponent will DI after being thrown.

Many people will look at these things and say "Oh, man - that's really 'advanced.' " Well, no - it's not all that advanced if you KNOW it exists and practice it consistently along with everything ELSE that you practice. Certainly some techniques are more "technically" difficult than others, but on a whole I'd say that the majority of advanced techniques are not actually that hard to pull off - they just require practice and consistent incorporation into one's gameplay, which is something that Brawl does not offer.

So at the end of the day, Melee really doesn't have any glitches in competitive play. I'm sure you've heard of the Link-boomerang glitch or the Black Hole glitch; THOSE are definitely glitches, but you don't have to worry about them showing up in competitive gameplay. Melee IS imbalanced, as has been brought up, but that imbalance does not stop players from mastering low- or bottom-tier characters and thrashing higher-tier characters just the same...it's just a whole lot more difficult for the low/bottom-tiers to win in tournaments. Who cares; some people like the added challenge of playing "against the odds" (I'm a bit like that) and the game is relatively well-balanced between the 8-10 characters that are normally used in tournament play. It could be better, I know, but it's not, and if you're looking for competitive Smash play, you'd best be thankful that you've still got Melee and that Brawl wasn't the ONLY Smash game ever made.

 

[Jaxx]

everytime these conversations, or debates come up, the question I always have is..

What does it matter?

If you don't like the game competitively, don't play it that way. All day long on the AZ thread are people complaining how bad brawl is to melee. Wasn't the intention of all Video games in general was to have fun.

I'll admit, this game is easy mode in comparasion to melee, however on the flip side, even with the loss of techniques and such, there is new stuff to learn. Remember how long it took someone to discover wave dashing, there is probably some random glich in this game that will eventually become the basis of all tourneys. On top of that, its nice to see new faces in competetive gameplay, that wouldn't of stepped into the bounds of it, had this game not be so pick up and play(those people normally get their ***** kicked, but its good to have new blood).

Before you guys start, yes I did play melee competitively, and to be honest I really hated melee untill about 8 months ago. When after my roomates + sam the glide and wakatana, acuatally convenced me to pick up the game for competition. I enjoyed it greatly, but still had the same feelings towards why I hated it in the first place.

The reasons, I didn't think the game was balenced enough(thats a personal opinion, say what you want about the game, but I position still stands), and the exploits pissed me off to the point where I said I wouldn't touch the game for years. But I came to and had a good time, and it takes time for people to get over the bull**** in smash, to have a good time playing it competitively. Eventually, the same thing will happen in brawl, and I, just like the rest of us that play it will abuse them.

Who knows, it may become like melee, it may not, but in the end new blood for comp is always welcomed, because everyone likes to win. As of right now Brawl = melee in the beginning. No one knows what the **** is gonna happen in a few years. Melee is still great, but how many new players are you gonna see in comparasion to how many new brawl players you will see? If you never touch the game, eventually, the thirst for new comp will kick in, and you'll play it anyway.

(Half of you mofos won't read all of this ****, but bottom line if you like melee better play it, if you like brawl better play that, either way stop *****ing about both of them because its pretty ****ing ********)

 

[KosukeKGA]

Text

Because people are stupid.

 

[PozerWolf]

Wow, Kohr stuff made a lot of sense, actually.
I love how you guys who are trying to argue with him are just completely missing the point.
I guess too much logic for you guys just makes your head esploded

Real talk: You guys are stupid.

But whatever, let idiots be idiots, thats what keeps them happy I suppose ;o

 

[Fabrian]

>.> I laugh at these types of threads now...

Too much talk about advance techs in melee that aren't even advanced if you think about it in the first place and how they aren't included in brawl, then you have those who are scared to start from ground zero (and probably have never played intense matches) in brawl complaining about how shield grab is all you need. Then you have those who don't have the game crying while trying to find random reasons to say that melee is best.

Apart from that you have:
-those who repeat 10x in a row melee is less competitive than brawl (yeah no one is an expert yet... but finding techs became competitive in itself.)
-You have the people who joined the forum yesterday saying on their first post Brawl omgbbq>melee pwned
-and then you have the nuns and the monks who come out of their church and say "let's not fight they are equally good".
-You can't forget those who get turned on by an easy to do 5 hit 0->death combo that they can't do in brawl...
-the brawl players who never played melee and say it sucked
-dumb kids running their mouths
-And Me laughing

 

[Puffer]

(...)

Before you guys start, yes I did play melee competitively, and to be honest I really hated melee untill about 8 months ago. When after my roomates + sam the glide and wakatana, acuatally convenced me to pick up the game for competition. I enjoyed it greatly, but still had the same feelings towards why I hated it in the first place.

The reasons, I didn't think the game was balenced enough(thats a personal opinion, say what you want about the game, but I position still stands), and the exploits pissed me off to the point where I said I wouldn't touch the game for years. But I came to and had a good time, and it takes time for people to get over the bull**** in smash, to have a good time playing it competitively. Eventually, the same thing will happen in brawl, and I, just like the rest of us that play it will abuse them.

I definitely see your point. I had some of the same issues you did with the game - the imbalance in Melee disgusted me when I first realized how bad it was (I don't think I can name a competitive game with more imbalance than Melee to date), and I was also annoyed with the "exploits" and "advanced" stuff because they sounded really snobby and nonsensical. What's more, I hadn't even LEARNED about what they were, so I just chose to write them off as trash and not pay any attention. Eventually I figured out that I would have to cope with the imbalance of the game and all the hoity-toighty "snob"-talk if I wanted to really improve as a player. I sat down, read up on advanced techniques, and started trying to incorporate them into my game.

In other words, like you, I had to "learn" to like Melee before I could get around some of the more unfortunate aspects of the game.

HOWEVER - despite its flaws, Melee is still, in my opinion, superior to Brawl in several ways. They've already been discussed here (and in other threads as well), and I don't really need to review them...play both games and you'll see what I mean.

And again - I don't mean to trash-talk Brawl here. I'm not saying it's a "bad" game, because it's not; it's actually a lot of fun to play and it's got a lot of material for players to explore and focus on. I'm only trying to say that, so far, Brawl has not matched the competitive appeal of Melee due to several decisive factors.

Finally, I'm not saying that Melee is "the greatest game I've ever played" - that's far from the truth. If you want my blunt, honest opinion, I would say that in the light of other competitive games, Melee is near the bottom of the list; there are so many other competitive games out there that deliver a deeper, more balanced, and more technically difficult competitive experience. However, within the context of the Smash games (SSB64, SSBM, and SSBB), Melee is definitely the grand prize winner for having the strongest competitive play. That's what I'm trying to say.

And yes, I'm still haunted by thoughts of the imbalance and stuff in Melee - for the most part, though, I've learned to deal with it and be thankful for the fact that there IS actually a Nintendo game that's highway-decently competitive.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Wow, Kohr stuff made a lot of sense, actually.
I love how you guys who are trying to argue with him are just completely missing the point.
I guess too much logic for you guys just makes your head esploded

Real talk: You guys are stupid.

But whatever, let idiots be idiots, thats what keeps them happy I suppose ;o

You're an idiot if you can't realize that Kohr knows basically nothing about Brawl or Melee. Nice job being just as ignorant. Let me guess, you never played Smash competitively either?

 

[Fabrian]

I definitely see your point. I had some of the same issues you did with the game - the imbalance in Melee disgusted me when I first realized how bad it was (I don't think I can name a competitive game with more imbalance than Melee to date), and I was also annoyed with the "exploits" and "advanced" stuff because they sounded really snobby and nonsensical. What's more, I hadn't even LEARNED about what they were, so I just chose to write them off as trash and not pay any attention. Eventually I figured out that I would have to cope with the imbalance of the game and all the hoity-toighty "snob"-talk if I wanted to really improve as a player. I sat down, read up on advanced techniques, and started trying to incorporate them into my game.

In other words, like you, I had to "learn" to like Melee before I could get around some of the more unfortunate aspects of the game.

HOWEVER - despite its flaws, Melee is still, in my opinion, superior to Brawl in several ways. They've already been discussed here (and in other threads as well), and I don't really need to review them...play both games and you'll see what I mean.

And again - I don't mean to trash-talk Brawl here. I'm not saying it's a "bad" game, because it's not; it's actually a lot of fun to play and it's got a lot of material for players to explore and focus on. I'm only trying to say that, so far, Brawl has not matched the competitive appeal of Melee due to several decisive factors.

Finally, I'm not saying that Melee is "the greatest game I've ever played" - that's far from the truth. If you want my blunt, honest opinion, I would say that in the light of other competitive games, Melee is near the bottom of the list; there are so many other competitive games out there that deliver a deeper, more balanced, and more technically difficult competitive experience. However, within the context of the Smash games (SSB64, SSBM, and SSBB), Melee is definitely the grand prize winner for having the strongest competitive play. That's what I'm trying to say.

And yes, I'm still haunted by thoughts of the imbalance and stuff in Melee - for the most part, though, I've learned to deal with it and be thankful for the fact that there IS actually a Nintendo game that's highway-decently competitive.

Finally someone with common sense...

 

[Grand Mango]

Rofl.

MONEY MATCH?

Oh wait, it's brawl?

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!!

Why dont you stuff a **** in it. Right down your throat, *******.

You, a "competitive" player played brawl without your godly techs, you ***** and moan.

You whine and **** at the loss of your precious exploits, and this down-play a great game. Next point you are just going to argue has to do with "i don't have a life so i try to make moanis off broken gaems!1" and well if that's your case let me say this again.

Stuff a **** in it. Right down your throat, *******.

I may not have the most time in the world, but enough to point out that you detract from quality, intelligent conversation. Get the fux out of my office.

Brawl, nor Melee, were ment for competitive scene. I'm glad there is one, as it gives me a chance to prove myself, but to downplay a game due to balance and more party-oriented environment is just flat out bigotry. Melee is still fun, but the quality of the Brawl experience (again, for those who don't read, this is heresay) is superior due to a number of added game mechanics.

I am not understanding you, are you implying you are better than me at brawl? That's a laugh, last time I checked, I attended tournaments and placed decently well in where M2k, Cort, Darc and others well known players have attended. What do you have? Nothing. It gives me experience over your 10 year old brain. I don't need advanced tactics to beat your childish ***. In melee I don't even need to use the b l x y c stick r or l buttons to beat you. And that's something I will money match on.

You are just a dumb ****, seriously. I have credentials to speak to the community unlike yourself.

Money match in brawl or melee, I don't care either way myself and all of the competitive and experienced players will destroy you.

Brawl is fun, it's not competitive like melee is so far. You seriously have your head up your *** and I suggest you **** yourself out of your *** so you can see how the smash games operate and work. I won't bother explaining it to a hopeless moron.

I'm sorry I live in college and I see like 500 people a day and attend classes every day, get trashed every weekend and play video games so I don't have a life and can't say anything about a video game that requires you not to have a life in order to define the whole community that doesn't have a life who interact with each other on a weekly basis outside of school and it defines why all like 80k+ of the community doesnt have a life.

You are dumb.

The game mechanics in brawl are toned down from melee. You don't understand or see that then shut up. I have less time than you but I know as soon as you said you didn't attend tournaments, I decided to come out and tell you to shut the **** up because you can't argue something you never experienced. It's like you can't explain the pain in fracturing your leg unless you have done it before.

So just shut up and leave. No one likes an ignorant trolling moron. Haven't you noticed everyone is disagreeing with you? When that happens you should know that means you are wrong.

 

[Fabrian]

^ yo dude where is the love? stop swearing and say what you gotta say...

Brawl = Coca-Cola and Melee = Pepsi; that is all.

 

[ellelaby]

I hope for all the Melee pro's out there that the Melee tournament scene stays around. And when I mean around, around.

Myself... I'm enjoying the **** out of Melee right now. But when the holidays are over (8 days to go) it's back to homework and training (athletics). I'll probably just be playing on weekends and a couple of battles after everything else is done (weekdays).

I won't be playing Melee competitively, but I thought Brawl would have been my chance to play some tournaments because of the online feature. I guess that when I do play Smash, it will mainly be both Brawl and Melee (Brawl a bit more because of the online feature).

 

[SH4D0W]

A thread with people arguing, fun -_-
Melee is better than Brawl, but Brawl is better than Melee

Period

-Walks off to play Brawl-

Let's not waste our time here, just have fun with Brawl/Melee!

 

[Blea Gelo]

this thread has gone so far man..
Brawl does NOT have the same compettitive pottential melee has, is WORST, but for the people that did not got into the melee pro scene, is better, just because of characters, and how easy is to play it... I cant believe that, there are people that say, ``finally, this game es slowly and all, that speed was to cheap, all melee layers were to fast`` ar, `` i dont play with WD and L cancelling and al those gliches, they r so cheap``.. People say that because they focused on not playing melee because i had to much to learn to play good, but now brawl is out, and is a LOT easyer, how they dont gonna like it... its just a game to have fun with, compettitive? NOOOOOT

 

[k4polo]

..........................

 

[k4polo]

Of course Brawl will take over the scene. Brawl introduces new gameplay mechanics, get's rid of those ridiculous glitches, and makes the game less of a chore to play. I'm all for emergent gameplay (I play GunZ, and we're the kings of EG), but Brawl replacing Melee because it's more balanced is only logical. People crying because of Melee's replacement needn't apply; they're afraid of change and the good that comes with it.

This. The truth is brawl will overtake melee. More people will have brawl tourneys then melee and Melee will not fade out but be of lesser importance. Melee feels old to most so people will be more interesting in seeing a competitive brawl match than melee match.

Also EVO replaced Melee with brawl this year. Brawl will take over,there is just too much hype for the game that melee can not surpass it even if you think it is better. Basically if you have a tourney and pick brawl and melee, more people will probably show up to Brawl. There are more people into brawl than melee.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Who the hell cares about the smash scene in Nicaragua or Ethiopia? The only tournaments that matter are the ones in the US, Japan, and where ever the hell in Europe that EK and Amsah are from.

Amsah is dutch and I think EK is from Sweden.

The Netherlands are like the SoCal of Europe.

Also, ESA and ESA2 were in France, so not every big tourney in Europe is a RoS. >_>

But most of them are. >_<

@k4polo: People would rather watch 6 minutes of camping and slow individual hits than 3 minutes of intense skill, mindgames wrapped in techskill, combos, punishment, gimp kills and edgeguarding? Out of every person I've talked to that has Brawl, none of them prefer Brawl vids. None. Even the ones that like Brawl itself more than Melee. And those are rare enough.

 

[k4polo]

Just because your techniques are gone doesn't mean it is bad .It can be played competitively and many people on youtube proved so. IT is more of a defensive game and still has alot of mind games.(Check out a good Snake player). Then again I didn't Wavedash in melee and was ok and played sorta competitively.

The casual people that get good in this game outway the experts in Melee by a big margin in my eyes. There aren't many finding more techniques for brawl.. Also you can check theboard activity between Brawl and Melee and can get a general consensus of what is more popular and what will be most played. If everyone thinks melee is better than brawl then why are there so many people into brawl as myself.

And those are some of the reasons why I feel BRawl will overtake Melee. Also my problem with melee is balance. The game has more techniques but alot of characters were imbalanced,

(Peach,Marth,roy,pichu). Melee has a balance problem andmost just choose the top/high tier so you see a bunch of Marth player. I find it rather annoying. Brawl feels more balanced and I like that.

Watch the getyourtournament vids. I predict people will have more Brawl tourneys than Melee as well.

 

[Puffer]

(Peach,Marth,roy,pichu). Melee has a balance problem andmost just choose the top/high tier so you see a bunch of Marth player. I find it rather annoying. Brawl feels more balanced and I like that.

Watch the getyourtournament vids. I predict people will have more Brawl tourneys than Melee as well.

As I said before, YES, Melee does have a balance problem. However, as I also said before, NO, this does not mean that Melee is "worse" of a competitive game than Brawl. Most fighting games have at least some degree of imbalance (true, Melee has the most I've seen so far, but still...that's not the point) and yet they can still be played at a high, competitive level.

Brawl rewards defensive behavior ("camping") in so many ways that it destroys its competitive appeal for many players. It's hard to be aggressive when you can barely string together a combo, let alone pull together a nice gimp kill or 0-to-death combo on your opponent. Brawl is slower because the characters are much "floatier", their recoveries are amazing, and thus the game drags on and on, even with a 3-stock limit (which is 2 stock less than the normal 5-stock limit used before in Melee).

So what am I saying? Brawl (thus far) has proven to be a slower-paced game, it has eliminated certain techniques and barred their use as an option for players, and it has removed the ability for players to string together killer combos (There's SOME combo ability, but it's a far cry from the previous Smash games).


Also, to address the balance issue, Brawl seems more balanced now because all the characters get to deal with nice long hitlag thanks to the removal of L-canceling. However, I can GUARANTEE you that a strong "top tier" will emerge from the character roster due to two things:

1. Characters who have LOW aerial attack lag will have an advantage over those that have higher attack lag because they'll be able to harass their opponent's shield without fear of being instantly grabbed afterwards; they'd be able to dodge/jump out of the way much easier.

2. Characters who have some sort of ranged "harass" pattern that will allow them to FORCE their opponents to come to them and thus receive a beating in the process. These characters will be good at wearing down their opponent's shields if their opponents fail to attack them and stop the projectile/ranged harassment.


So no, Brawl is not perfectly balanced either. There will be characters that prove to be the dominating force in the game, just like there were in Melee. Hence, as it stands now, Melee is still, overall, a more competitive game.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Amsah is dutch and I think EK is from Sweden.

Yeah those guys are **** good. I would love to see them play the top US players; I think Amsah might be able to beat them.

 

[k4polo]

As I said before, YES, Melee does have a balance problem. However, as I also said before, NO, this does not mean that Melee is "worse" of a competitive game than Brawl. Most fighting games have at least some degree of imbalance (true, Melee has the most I've seen so far, but still...that's not the point) and yet they can still be played at a high, competitive level.

This is exactly what I disagree with you. I believe Imbalances/cheapnes causes it to be less competitive and rather cheap. I know alot of people who agree to me on that. Brawl can be played at a high level.

You want to string combos and do techniques and be onthe offensive usually. This game is more of a defensive game which to me doesn't cause alot of problems or any kind of imbalance. You disagree with this.

I also disagree that taking out Wavedashing made it more competitive. It caused more imbalanced than anything which may be why it was removed. Then again i am a person of fair game and do notlike a handful of charactersdominating tourneys.

I like alot of variety of characters doing well then a selected few. There are alot of ppl like me who didn't like Melee's cheapness,(Marth,Fox,Falco,Shiek) I play other fighting games as well but melee is really a cheap game and developers seem to agree with me and added better recovery and nerf and buff when needed(Zelda,Sheik a good example of that)

My other prediction is that the amount of people who play brawl competitive will outnumber the people who play Melee competitively as more people get into brawl as it is easier. EVO has brawl and it looks to stay and be the norm. The forum is very active for brawl. Alot of people like the game despite what others say.

only problem is puffer is you are assuming alot of thus as fact. What you say may not be true.

 

[ObiHuang]

Evo replacing Melee with Brawl

I'd bet that Evo takes Brawl off the roster in a year. Evo usually takes games with huge distributions in skill... and frankly, I can't see that happening.

I postulate competitive Brawl will evolve into some graphically pretty Rock/Paper/Scissors match of Shield Grabbing/Projectile Camping/Marthing.... all taking place at a very slow pace. Also, since ground approaches are dreadfully predictable, I also predict many very gay aerial spacing battles reminiscent of Jigglypuff dittos... except slower due to the new physics.

 

[k4polo]

I'd bet that Evo takes Brawl off the roster in a year. Evo usually takes games with huge distributions in skill... and frankly, I can't see that happening.

Hmm you are on.

Brawl will stay in EVO as many i mean many people go their for BRawl. Way more than melee people. Money wise it is good. Brawl can be played competitively and it has already been proven on youtube yet people seem to say it is not competitively. I just don't see why.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

This is exactly what I disagree with you. I believe Imbalances/cheapnes causes it to be less competitive and rather cheap. I know alot of people who agree to me on that. Brawl can be played at a high level.

I like alot of variety of characters doing well then a selected few. There are alot of ppl like me who didn't like Melee's cheapness,(Marth,Fox,Falco,Shiek) I play other fighting games as well but melee is really a cheap game and developers seem to agree with me and added better recovery and nerf and buff when needed(Zelda,Sheik a good example of that)

"Other fighting games" are just as unbalanced as Melee, especially the most popular competitive ones.