I have an erie feeling that Villager will be nerfed badly

[Mtn64]

May I ask why Trip Sapling is good?
For one it RUINS Axe completely. OoS Axe is a thing against laggier moves and kills much earlier than other OOS options villager has. Axe also loses its shield breaking capability (Tree growth into Axe)
Timbers growth potential is completely and utterly ruined as well, doing next to no knockback on a successful hit.
And let's say you DO force the opponent into a trip scenario, you're usually just gambling on their getup option in order to get an actual punish.
Plus, I'd be much more scared running over a sapling set up to only need one unit of water..

Like, if there's something I'm missing that justifies losing all the potential of tree and ruining all its properties other than the fact it can trip then by all means tell me.

 

[Super1]

May I ask why Trip Sapling is good?
For one it RUINS Axe completely. OoS Axe is a thing against laggier moves and kills much earlier than other OOS options villager has. Axe also loses its shield breaking capability (Tree growth into Axe)
Timbers growth potential is completely and utterly ruined as well, doing next to no knockback on a successful hit.
And let's say you DO force the opponent into a trip scenario, you're usually just gambling on their getup option in order to get an actual punish.
Plus, I'd be much more scared running over a sapling set up to only need one unit of water..

Like, if there's something I'm missing that justifies losing all the potential of tree and ruining all its properties other than the fact it can trip then by all means tell me.

If a fully grown Counter Timber is hit by the opponent and they are about a tether distance away, they will take the damage they dealt and be send flying back.

It forces opponents to watch where they attack, and is a heavy counter to rush down characters, since they have to dance around the tree to do damage.

 

[Darklink401]

Trip sapling is a stationary banana that can't be picked up, and VERY useful for avoiding grabs, which is something Villager naturally cant play (the grab game) since his is so poor.

Timber counter is great because even Villager can activate it, and it serves as protection.


Basically, trip sapling is great because it deals with the rushdown that Villager usually suffers from.


Also makes FD a much better stage FOR Villager.

 

[Sonsa]

I do agree that Villager is really awesome and the stuff I get away with even scares me sometimes, and I agree that he may get a nerf if the smash team saw some of our techniques (like the one-chop)
However, I don't think enough people have used Villager enough to cause any concern. The only thing I'm really worried about is pocket's damage boosting power may be nerfed because of ...ah, sorry, I can't remember their names, but the Ness&Villager team at apex's performance. They didn't win, but they were pretty close, and the G&W Pikachu synergy was nerfed, so... I don't think there's a high chance, last patch they didn't change anything about Villager, so hopefully they're still happy with how he turned out.

 

[Darklink401]

I do agree that Villager is really awesome and the stuff I get away with even scares me sometimes, and I agree that he may get a nerf if the smash team saw some of our techniques (like the one-chop)
However, I don't think enough people have used Villager enough to cause any concern. The only thing I'm really worried about is pocket's damage boosting power may be nerfed because of ...ah, sorry, I can't remember their names, but the Ness&Villager team at apex's performance. They didn't win, but they were pretty close, and the G&W Pikachu synergy was nerfed, so... I don't think there's a high chance, last patch they didn't change anything about Villager, so hopefully they're still happy with how he turned out.

The thing is, instakill bucket was OP.

Pocket itself is a very good move, but it cant absorb three things at once, like bucket.

 

[Sonsa]

The thing is, instakill bucket was OP.

Pocket itself is a very good move, but it cant absorb three things at once, like bucket.

I know but... Ahh, I was actually thinking some of their patches have been a little...preemptive, but after reviewing 1.0.4 patch notes, yeah, they've been pretty on-point for the most part. I guess I can worry a bit less. And nobody has really used the one-chop in tourney effectively... Yeah, Villager hasn't been patched before and I don't think Villager has made a huge enough impact either way to concern them. I guess I wouldn't worry, Villager should be fine for a while.

 

[captain clutch]

May I ask why Trip Sapling is good?
For one it RUINS Axe completely. OoS Axe is a thing against laggier moves and kills much earlier than other OOS options villager has. Axe also loses its shield breaking capability (Tree growth into Axe)
Timbers growth potential is completely and utterly ruined as well, doing next to no knockback on a successful hit.
And let's say you DO force the opponent into a trip scenario, you're usually just gambling on their getup option in order to get an actual punish.
Plus, I'd be much more scared running over a sapling set up to only need one unit of water..

Like, if there's something I'm missing that justifies losing all the potential of tree and ruining all its properties other than the fact it can trip then by all means tell me.

As with all customs, there are pros and cons. I do miss having a threatening kill arsenal that comes with default Timber, but some MUs work great for counter timber. Specifically Sonic and Little Mac. The Counter Timber actually gives Villager the edge. Sonic's spin dash moves get cancelled by BOTH the trip sapling and the tree itself (since he's just a mobile spinning hitbox). And of course Mac has a hard time against the trip sapling. What's he gonna do? Jump?

But apart from being good vs rush down characters, it's also another GREAT tool for stage control. If your opponent is coming back on stage, you can plant a sapling either near the ledge, or to where if they rolled to get back, they would trip. This leads to easy punishes. Also planting it beneath platforms leads to a trip and dropped bowling ball.
Typically, when they trip, they can't roll get up towards the sapling, because it'll cause them to trip again, which forces them to either regular get up (which still puts them near the trip) or roll the opposite way. Knowing this can lead to punishes.

Between Pushy Lyoid, Counter Timber, and Explosive Balloon Trip, custom Villager has a very easy time returning to stage or keeping opponents off stage.

 

[Darklink401]

I know but... Ahh, I was actually thinking some of their patches have been a little...preemptive, but after reviewing 1.0.4 patch notes, yeah, they've been pretty on-point for the most part. I guess I can worry a bit less. And nobody has really used the one-chop in tourney effectively... Yeah, Villager hasn't been patched before and I don't think Villager has made a huge enough impact either way to concern them. I guess I wouldn't worry, Villager should be fine for a while.

If anything, I expected the patch to BUFF him, like removing some landing lag from fairs and bairs x.x

As with all customs, there are pros and cons. I do miss having a threatening kill arsenal that comes with default Timber, but some MUs work great for counter timber. Specifically Sonic and Little Mac. The Counter Timber actually gives Villager the edge. Sonic's spin dash moves get cancelled by BOTH the trip sapling and the tree itself (since he's just a mobile spinning hitbox). And of course Mac has a hard time against the trip sapling. What's he gonna do? Jump?

But apart from being good vs rush down characters, it's also another GREAT tool for stage control. If your opponent is coming back on stage, you can plant a sapling either near the ledge, or to where if they rolled to get back, they would trip. This leads to easy punishes. Also planting it beneath platforms leads to a trip and dropped bowling ball.
Typically, when they trip, they can't roll get up towards the sapling, because it'll cause them to trip again, which forces them to either regular get up (which still puts them near the trip) or roll the opposite way. Knowing this can lead to punishes.

Between Pushy Lyoid, Counter Timber, and Explosive Balloon Trip, custom Villager has a very easy time returning to stage or keeping opponents off stage.

Basically, Villager has enough good options to kill, he might as well have something to deal with his one matchup weakness, rushdown characters.


Also I prefer Counter Timber, regular lloid, and Balloon Jump.

Why?

Balloon jump is extremely safe and fast, as well as having incredible vertical distance. While explosive balloon trip has its benefits, it's also a very bad recovery option, and extremely slow.

Regular lloid is there for horizontal recovery, that balloon jump doesn't have.

 

[captain clutch]

Interesting, I haven't seen people use balloon jump.
Explosive balloon trip is still a good recovery that can recover from anywhere you need to, due to the burst you get from popping both balloons. And while it is slow, the hit boxes protect you from most gimps, and you could propel yourself upward if you need to recover faster.
I don't like having to rely on the lyoid for horizontal recovery unless I know I can crash it into a tree. It's too unsafe and can be punished easily.
But trust me, I've only recently grown to like explosive balloon trip. I was a huge fan of the default one

 

[Antonykun]

If anything, I expected the patch to BUFF him, like removing some landing lag from fairs and bairs x.x



Basically, Villager has enough good options to kill, he might as well have something to deal with his one matchup weakness, rushdown characters.


Also I prefer Counter Timber, regular lloid, and Balloon Jump.

Why?

Balloon jump is extremely safe and fast, as well as having incredible vertical distance. While explosive balloon trip has its benefits, it's also a very bad recovery option, and extremely slow.

Regular lloid is there for horizontal recovery, that balloon jump doesn't have.

I personally don't like Balloon Jump. It's neither as strong as Trip or as safe as Extreme

 

[captain clutch]

Did you mean to say as strong as explosive and safe as the default one?

 

[Darklink401]

I personally don't like Balloon Jump. It's neither as strong as Trip or as safe as Jump

What Jump are you referring to? o.o

Also, it's pretty strong, strong enough to stage spike, and its safe in its speed, its as fast as, say Megaman's or Sonic's regular up B. And those are considered safe.

Aso it gets you to the ledge quickly, allowing for ledge trumps, and for refreshing your jump for more gimping opportunity.

 

[Antonykun]

What Jump are you referring to? o.o

Also, it's pretty strong, strong enough to stage spike, and its safe in its speed, its as fast as, say Megaman's or Sonic's regular up B. And those are considered safe.

Aso it gets you to the ledge quickly, allowing for ledge trumps, and for refreshing your jump for more gimping opportunity.

Typo replace jump with extreme
I meant to say Balloon Jump isn't as strong of a recovery as Balloon Trip nor is is as safe as Extreme Balloon Trip.
Trip allows you to recover from literally anywhere and everywhere
Extreme gives you a remote controlled bomb that covers the top of your body while also giving you a decent recovery option
Jump offers a lot of vertical recovery while not offering much horizontal or diagonal and a hitbox to boot but dear nook if you miss the ledge you are a sitting duck. Omega Lylat (or if you're like me and don't have a Wii U Omega 3D Land) will be the bane of your existance

 

[Darklink401]

Typo replace jump with extreme
I meant to say Balloon Jump isn't as strong of a recovery as Balloon Trip nor is is as safe as Extreme Balloon Trip.
Trip allows you to recover from literally anywhere and everywhere
Extreme gives you a remote controlled bomb that covers the top of your body while also giving you a decent recovery option
Jump offers a lot of vertical recovery while not offering much horizontal or diagonal and a hitbox to boot but dear nook if you miss the ledge you are a sitting duck. Omega Lylat (or if you're like me and don't have a Wii U Omega 3D Land) will be the bane of your existance

Oh I get it

Well, from my experience, Extreme Balloon Trip is actually really really bad when it comes to actual recovery. It gives Villager better options in the neutral, but when it comes to air games, while his balloons DO explode, its also easy to get him, due to the painfully slow speed at which the explosive balloons carry him.


On that same field, Trip is great because it can make him recover from anywhere, but it suffers from 2 things.

1. Slow

2. No hitbox

All of them have certain benefits, but if you're the type of Villager to go for frequent gimps and edgeguards, I'd definitely recommend the Balloon High Jump, because of its speed and hitbox.

With practice, its definitely possible to sweetspot more often, but I WILL admit itd be a lot better if you could cancel it midway.


As for Lylat, due to Villager's airgliding due to his floatyness, and vertical distance covered by Balloon jump, you can afford to drip a bit if you are under the lip of the stage, and up B back on without being caught underneath. Or you can ride lloid rocket and jump off at the right time, if you are too close to the center, but high enough to do so XP yolo, right?

 

[Antonykun]

Oh I get it

Well, from my experience, Extreme Balloon Trip is actually really really bad when it comes to actual recovery. It gives Villager better options in the neutral, but when it comes to air games, while his balloons DO explode, its also easy to get him, due to the painfully slow speed at which the explosive balloons carry him.


On that same field, Trip is great because it can make him recover from anywhere, but it suffers from 2 things.

1. Slow

2. No hitbox

All of them have certain benefits, but if you're the type of Villager to go for frequent gimps and edgeguards, I'd definitely recommend the Balloon High Jump, because of its speed and hitbox.

With practice, its definitely possible to sweetspot more often, but I WILL admit itd be a lot better if you could cancel it midway.


As for Lylat, due to Villager's airgliding due to his floatyness, and vertical distance covered by Balloon jump, you can afford to drip a bit if you are under the lip of the stage, and up B back on without being caught underneath. Or you can ride lloid rocket and jump off at the right time, if you are too close to the center, but high enough to do so XP yolo, right?

If you could cancel Jump you would have the OOS Villager needs.

 

[Sir $erpent453]

Is it bad I do all of the things Villager sucks as and STILL win with it?

Like, no neutral air, constant grabbing, defensive game, and other such things?

 

[Sonsa]

Is it bad I do all of the things Villager sucks as and STILL win with it?

Like, no neutral air, constant grabbing, defensive game, and other such things?

It's not bad to win, but sounds like you're on for glory or fighting other...fighters who are still learning. It's fine practice, but as you feel yourself growing as a player you'll want some tougher challenges to get even better. If you fight players that can't punish grabs or get around your spacing then you may never learn what to do when you actually fight someone who can.

 

[Sir $erpent453]

It's not bad to win, but sounds like you're on for glory or fighting other...fighters who are still learning. It's fine practice, but as you feel yourself growing as a player you'll want some tougher challenges to get even better. If you fight players that can't punish grabs or get around your spacing then you may never learn what to do when you actually fight someone who can.

Good point. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Darklink401]

If you could cancel Jump you would have the OOS Villager needs.

At least we have nair OoS XP

But yeah, if I changed anything in Villager, it would be that. I guess OoS Jump can work if there are high platforms like Kongo Jungle tho.

 

[Mtn64]

Oh I get it

Well, from my experience, Extreme Balloon Trip is actually really really bad when it comes to actual recovery. It gives Villager better options in the neutral, but when it comes to air games, while his balloons DO explode, its also easy to get him, due to the painfully slow speed at which the explosive balloons carry him.


On that same field, Trip is great because it can make him recover from anywhere, but it suffers from 2 things.

1. Slow

2. No hitbox

All of them have certain benefits, but if you're the type of Villager to go for frequent gimps and edgeguards, I'd definitely recommend the Balloon High Jump, because of its speed and hitbox.

With practice, its definitely possible to sweetspot more often, but I WILL admit itd be a lot better if you could cancel it midway.


As for Lylat, due to Villager's airgliding due to his floatyness, and vertical distance covered by Balloon jump, you can afford to drip a bit if you are under the lip of the stage, and up B back on without being caught underneath. Or you can ride lloid rocket and jump off at the right time, if you are too close to the center, but high enough to do so XP yolo, right?

Its near impossible for ebt to get gimped repeatedly, and if you're in a tight spot bursting both balloons propels you forward a good distance.
The explosion has a much bigger hitbox than you'd think.

 

[Darklink401]

Its near impossible for ebt to get gimped repeatedly, and if you're in a tight spot bursting both balloons propels you forward a good distance.
The explosion has a much bigger hitbox than you'd think.

To be fair, haven't really tested it MUCH, but I really dislike the fact it makes Villager's actual recovery suck x~x

 

[captain clutch]

To be fair, haven't really tested it MUCH, but I really dislike the fact it makes Villager's actual recovery suck x~x

It really doesnt suck as a recovery though. It's better than most recoveries, and since I've started using it, I've yet to fall short due to it. I've also yet to be gimped (have only been using it for ~2 weeks)

 

[Darklink401]

It really doesnt suck as a recovery though. It's better than most recoveries, and since I've started using it, I've yet to fall short due to it. I've also yet to be gimped (have only been using it for ~2 weeks)

I used it once, and fell short twice.

Bad memories.

I might give it another go, but Balloon High Jump is the best for me.

 

[captain clutch]

I used it once, and fell short twice.

Bad memories.

I might give it another go, but Balloon High Jump is the best for me.

Did you explode the balloons to give you the extra burst?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

If a fully grown Counter Timber is hit by the opponent and they are about a tether distance away, they will take the damage they dealt and be send flying back.

It forces opponents to watch where they attack, and is a heavy counter to rush down characters, since they have to dance around the tree to do damage.

Counter only does 5%, regardless of the attack countered. It does have the potential to hit twice in a single counter though, if your opponent is either heavy at low percents or stupid enough to do something like roll back into the counter after getting smacked by the first hit. It also has extra shield damage.

I do agree that Villager is really awesome and the stuff I get away with even scares me sometimes, and I agree that he may get a nerf if the smash team saw some of our techniques (like the one-chop)
However, I don't think enough people have used Villager enough to cause any concern. The only thing I'm really worried about is pocket's damage boosting power may be nerfed because of ...ah, sorry, I can't remember their names, but the Ness&Villager team at apex's performance. They didn't win, but they were pretty close, and the G&W Pikachu synergy was nerfed, so... I don't think there's a high chance, last patch they didn't change anything about Villager, so hopefully they're still happy with how he turned out.

One-chop is way too reliable to warrant a patch. And even if it does get patched out... like I said, unreliable. Nothing of value will be lost (yes, this is a flip-flop from my previous opinion on one-chop).

Mario's Cape is about a x1.5 reflector. While this might make it seem inferior to Pocket, it has more utility in gimping AND versatility in the stuff it can reflect. Mario doesn't have to worry about failing the reflect (unlike Villager, who can get the projectile knocked out of them during the pocketing animation) and can actually use it to deal with Needles, which is a pretty big deal. I think Pocket is pretty balanced as it is, and I feel the fact that it's been left unchanged (to our knowledge) during five patches vindicates this.

Edit: one-chop is way too UNreliable to warrant a patch. Oops!

 

[Sonsa]

One-chop is way too reliable to warrant a patch. And even if it does get patched out... like I said, unreliable. Nothing of value will be lost (yes, this is a flip-flop from my previous opinion on one-chop).

Mario's Cape is about a x1.5 reflector. While this might make it seem inferior to Pocket, it has more utility in gimping AND versatility in the stuff it can reflect. Mario doesn't have to worry about failing the reflect (unlike Villager, who can get the projectile knocked out of them during the pocketing animation) and can actually use it to deal with Needles, which is a pretty big deal. I think Pocket is pretty balanced as it is, and I feel the fact that it's been left unchanged (to our knowledge) during five patches vindicates this.

Oh yeah, I've already changed my mind, I agree. I think Villager will be left alone. Not changed at all, or maybe changed in the form of some "bug-fixes". But in 1.0.5, while some bugs were removed, Villager's strange gyroid momentum and gyroid reflect insta-kill remain! Though, I worry that theyre still here simply because they haven't been made aware of these techniques yet. Though, the reflect insta-kill is a liiittle popular. More popular than Kirby's strange bug where he would stay airborne when using Dark Pits bow after using a throw, but that was patched out.
I'm not sure, cause the insta-kill tech seems particularly overpowered, no matter how infrequently it may occur, definitely seems like something they'd want to fix, yet it remains.
So yeah, Ive been rambling for a while but my main concern is: Are they very happy with how Villager turned out and dont want to change him at all like when 1.0.4 hit? Do they think even though Villager has strong techs like the one-chop, the insta-kill, pocket invincibility and pocketing power is amazing - it all demands enough skill? OR, do they feel that way just because they havent seen some of the stranger things yet? ORRR do they feel upset that Villager isn't used in many tournaments and will we get a slight buff? Maybe we're able to hold onto things in our pocket for 5 more seconds? My minds a mess and the possibilities seem endless. I want to show off these techs in tourneys but I dont want them removed...

 

[Mtn64]

While I do think the one chop isn't the most important at we have, I've been able to score a lot of kills given the situation and if the opponent has seen me one chop yet or not.
Definitely something I'd throw out once a set.

 

[Shinuto]

I really feel like you guys only say he doesnt need a nerf cause you main him...Villager is just stupid with how many shutdown moves he has.....side B down b, f-air, back bair, and pocket.....and that stupid Fm smash recorvery...I dont know how you justify villagers spamming rocket to act as a wall so he slingshots me to death. and I try rushdown...that damn rocket is just too safe. I sheilf I jump I use dash attacks to get past it but he just manages to just do some other crap to kill me.


nevermind all this rage...crap...I figured out what to do...

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Spotdodging the rocket is usually the best thing you can do. Since you aren't shielding it, it has nothing to impact and detonate. That way you've avoided and Villager can't use another one right away.

If you jump you're gonna get nailed by slingshots, turnips, UTilt, or USmash. If you dash attack, well...

If you're close enough you can just duck beneath it because of how good WFT's crouch is. You can probably also duck beneath UTilt.

Have you tried using Header to deal with rocket? It's very safe.

Anyway if you read through the thread you'll notice that it's Villager mains arguing against Villager mains over whether or not the character should be nerfed.

 

[Sonsa]

I really feel like you guys only say he doesnt need a nerf cause you main him...Villager is just stupid with how many shutdown moves he has.....side B down b, f-air, back bair, and pocket.....and that stupid Fm smash recorvery...I dont know how you justify villagers spamming rocket to act as a wall so he slingshots me to death. and I try rushdown...that damn rocket is just too safe. I sheilf I jump I use dash attacks to get past it but he just manages to just do some other crap to kill me.

Aha, I like your profile picture. I can understand why Villager frustrates you, Villager vs Wii Fit Trainer is a pretty tough matchup for her... The rocket has some start-up where it's inactive so if you dash in there fast enough you can attack Villager and avoid it. Wii Fit's crawl could definitely dodge some slingshots, but it is a bit slow.
Sorry, you may need to try using another character. Villager has lots of trouble with Sheik, Megaman, um, even with many characters like Marth and Diddy.
I love Wii Fit Trainer, but she has a significant disadvantage, I wrote about it in the matchup thread if youre interested. I give some advice for both sides.

 

[Shinuto]

Aha, I like your profile picture. I can understand why Villager frustrates you, Villager vs Wii Fit Trainer is a pretty tough matchup for her... The rocket has some start-up where it's inactive so if you dash in there fast enough you can attack Villager and avoid it. Wii Fit's crawl could definitely dodge some slingshots, but it is a bit slow.
Sorry, you may need to try using another character. Villager has lots of trouble with Sheik, Megaman, um, even with many characters like Marth and Diddy.
I love Wii Fit Trainer, but she has a significant disadvantage, I wrote about it in the matchup thread if youre interested. I give some advice for both sides.

I finally caved in and used Sonic against this jerkass Villager....and I destroyed ...but still it was way too hard....WHY does the slingshot FLINCH?! seriously its better than Megman's neutral in range and everything. I mean at least only flinch on close up intial hit....but come on....and rocket NEEDS like maybe half a second longer of recovery time before it can be used cause EVERY villager I face just spams that wall to no end. just CONSTANT....its boring! ugggh I want love how unique the kid is...but its so obnoxious to deal with.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Mega Man's lemons flinch too... and if it didn't flinch then slingshot would just be a really bad Fox Laser, especially on a character like Villager

 

[Sonsa]

I finally caved in and used Sonic against this jerkass Villager....and I destroyed ...but still it was way too hard....WHY does the slingshot FLINCH?! seriously its better than Megman's neutral in range and everything. I mean at least only flinch on close up intial hit....but come on....and rocket NEEDS like maybe half a second longer of recovery time before it can be used cause EVERY villager I face just spams that wall to no end. just CONSTANT....its boring! ugggh I want love how unique the kid is...but its so obnoxious to deal with.

Yeah, Sonic can give him trouble usually. Well if the slingshot didn't flinch Villager would get pretty destroyed. Its a great tool for gradually tacking on damage and keeping space. If people went right through it and attacked...Villager would be pretty low tier.

And yeah, rocket will always be out. Like...why NOT use it? Great stage control, helps cover approaches or let's us grow a tree while our opponent is a lil busy. We'll only not use it if we know we'll get punished, when we're too close pretty much.

I hear a lot of people say its really demanding and annoying to face Villager, and uh... I dunno, sorry, I didnt design him haha. When I do Villager dittos or when I run into a Villager without using my own I stay patient and usually know what to do since I play that character. But it can be tough! Villager is a threat, yeah, if you fight a good one you need to be patient and chase him around I guess. I can see how people can get frustrated for sure. Sorry.

 

[Sonsa]

I finally caved in and used Sonic against this jerkass Villager....and I destroyed ...but still it was way too hard....WHY does the slingshot FLINCH?! seriously its better than Megman's neutral in range and everything. I mean at least only flinch on close up intial hit....but come on....and rocket NEEDS like maybe half a second longer of recovery time before it can be used cause EVERY villager I face just spams that wall to no end. just CONSTANT....its boring! ugggh I want love how unique the kid is...but its so obnoxious to deal with.

Ahh, here's my full thoughts on the matchup http://smashboards.com/threads/town...tchup-discussion.370525/page-12#post-18638634 Hope it helps! I basically think Wii Fit Trainer needs to be patient and try to kill early with lots of spike options.

 

[Shinuto]

Yeah, Sonic can give him trouble usually. Well if the slingshot didn't flinch Villager would get pretty destroyed. Its a great tool for gradually tacking on damage and keeping space. If people went right through it and attacked...Villager would be pretty low tier.

And yeah, rocket will always be out. Like...why NOT use it? Great stage control, helps cover approaches or let's us grow a tree while our opponent is a lil busy. We'll only not use it if we know we'll get punished, when we're too close pretty much.

I hear a lot of people say its really demanding and annoying to face Villager, and uh... I dunno, sorry, I didnt design him haha. When I do Villager dittos or when I run into a Villager without using my own I stay patient and usually know what to do since I play that character. But it can be tough! Villager is a threat, yeah, if you fight a good one you need to be patient and chase him around I guess. I can see how people can get frustrated for sure. Sorry.

i just dont agree that Villager is too easy to wall with....and that down tilt has this bizarre hitbox from how it seems.
he basically impossible to get to unless you rushdown. and thats just dumb to put on on other players. and no I tried countering with Mac and like Lucina...it kinda works. reflecting is worse cause then he just pockets it I even tried reflecting with Fox about 2 Bowsers away and he pocketed his rocket. I wouldnt hate rocket so much but it in combination with slingshot is just dumb. that and that Ive NEVER EVER seen someone gimp Villager by popping his balloons....ever. it has way too much velocity

 

[Sonsa]

i just dont agree that Villager is too easy to wall with....and that down tilt has this bizarre hitbox from how it seems.
he basically impossible to get to unless you rushdown. and thats just dumb to put on on other players. and no I tried countering with Mac and like Lucina...it kinda works. reflecting is worse cause then he just pockets it I even tried reflecting with Fox about 2 Bowsers away and he pocketed his rocket. I wouldnt hate rocket so much but it in combination with slingshot is just dumb. that and that Ive NEVER EVER seen someone gimp Villager by popping his balloons....ever. it has way too much velocity

Yeah, you definitely need to chase him. Villager loves his space. But yeah, my thoughts are in that link!
I don't think those are rather great counters, but if it works for ya good! Certainly better matchups than Wii Fit as Mac has better speed and Lucina has better range though. Aha, yeah, I love baiting reflects.
And I've also never seen Villager gimped by Balloon pops! Maybe they could make it easier in a patch, cause it really seems like those balloons were meant to be easier to be popped. Kinda like Lil Mac's side-b recovery was alright, they patched that to make it worse as intended.

 

[Shinuto]

Yeah, you definitely need to chase him. Villager loves his space. But yeah, my thoughts are in that link!
I don't think those are rather great counters, but if it works for ya good! Certainly better matchups than Wii Fit as Mac has better speed and Lucina has better range though. Aha, yeah, I love baiting reflects.
And I've also never seen Villager gimped by Balloon pops! Maybe they could make it easier in a patch, cause it really seems like those balloons were meant to be easier to be popped. Kinda like Lil Mac's side-b recovery was alright, they patched that to make it worse as intended.

What I think should be done is have the balloons maybe made bigger or have it so they are both easier to pop and having only 1 balloon means you REALLy neeed to mash b to get him to ascend.

 

[Sonsa]

What I think should be done is have the balloons maybe made bigger or have it so they are both easier to pop and having only 1 balloon means you REALLy neeed to mash b to get him to ascend.

Well... I dont think you should only have one cause Ive had one popped before, and yeah, you can still recover but its tough. If I only had one, itd be tough just to recover and Id get gimped way too easy. Having the balloons bigger and easier to hit seems...sorta fair to me though, I suppose.

 

[Shinuto]

Well... I dont think you should only have one cause Ive had one popped before, and yeah, you can still recover but its tough. If I only had one, itd be tough just to recover and Id get gimped way too easy. Having the balloons bigger and easier to hit seems...sorta fair to me though, I suppose.

No i mean WHEN you have one it should be hard to ascend... make it so you have to mash B to recover. so like if you lose one of your two balloons it makes it much harder to ascend.

 

[Sonsa]

No i mean WHEN you have one it should be hard to ascend... make it so you have to mash B to recover. so like if you lose one of your two balloons it makes it much harder to ascend.

Oh, but its already like that. With only one balloon the recovery becomes a lot slower and you can't be very mobile. If you even try dodging an attack by letting go of B for a second you could float down too much and just die (usually what happens, you should never let go of B if ya wanna live). One balloon is no where as good as two, so you can sorta breathe a sigh of relief from that.