I found a reliable use for Substitute

[firecheetah]

For me, anyway. May not work for everyone, and its effectiveness is debatable. Anyway, I've been using substitute against projectiles pretty regularly for the past couple weeks and have had great results. I don't use it against EVERY loid rocket or fireball that tumbles my way, but when the opponent's percentage is high I like to slip it in to either seal the KO or at least put the fear of god in them

I'm surprised I don't see more people do this. The mobility substitute gives you can help you kick the opponent in the face from across the stage when they're being campy, or if they're using a projectile to screen their approach. Like when a Pikachu drops a thunder jolt to protect him as he runs at me, I'll sub and come in from behind him, or from below. Or from any direction, really. The flexibility of substitute makes it seem ideal to counter projectiles, as far as I can see

Or maybe I just haven't been playing against good players lately. What do you guys think? How long before this backfires hahaha

 

[Lemonade Candy]

I think you're going the right way with it. Just note that you cant use it against Captain Falcon's fair. The hit stun when you counter is long enough to hit you out of it and still get the sweet spot. Was put in losers because of it. Move needs more research imo.

 

[MadCanard]

I enjoy using Substitute as a approach option against projectile users.

You can either hold left or right and do the approach kick like you mention or above or you can hold up or down and do the (I don't know what to call it) Substitute teleport approach. I'm sure most of you know this but let me explain. When you are about 1/4 FD or less away from your opponent and you use up or down Substitute you will lock onto where the projectile originated from and teleport there. Very handy against opponents who don't know this. A decent approach option against those who do know about it.

Lately I've been experimenting with Substitute Ambush and this teleport approach distance increases to about 1/2 FD. The downside is the end lag of Substitute Ambush is awful. Still it is a shield breaker move and can get you in from quite far against projectile users.

 

[C0rvus]

Assuming you have the control over it down, it could be applied to recovering; potentially turning around an edge guarding situation. The move could prove useful in other areas, such as landing and maybe out of shield; and it can be made safe in most situations simply by choosing the proper direction to attack. But, as with any application of Substitute, this requires really good timing since the active window is so small! I suppose it's just another thing to practice.

 

[NinjaLink]

https://youtu.be/IsT7XWy-ID4?t=415 Is this what you mean lol

 

[Kace Mono]

https://youtu.be/IsT7XWy-ID4?t=415 Is this what you mean lol

WOW thats brilliant. I've been lookign for something to do like this and had trouble trying to figure out the best way to use substitute. This looks awesome and it works! Lets hope it works better against Link and Toon Link, because the range makes that a really hard matchup for me.


Edit: Went to a tournament today and spent the night before playing with friends, one of which mains toon link. The lock on after sub is incredibly useful because depending on the range attack, there is usually enough lag to get the hit. Better yet, alot of people tend to try and stall out if they're in kill percents of substitute. It is a devestating tool and i honestly dont see why i haent been using it like this all along.

 

[Steve.Stone]

How did you run up and substitute like that so fast!? It never seems to activate so quickly for me, I would've gotten hit by the fireball. :O

 

[NinjaLink]

jumpcanceling into substitute helps guarantee it

 

[Steve.Stone]

So you were basically running, jumped and down b'd at the same time?

 

[Kace Mono]

So jump cancelling brings out the active frames quicker?

 

[NinjaLink]

It guarantees you dont go into the slide from running.

 

[Kace Mono]

OOOOHHHHHHHH cool. thats rather useful then. Thanks muchly!