I can't let you do that sta...wait >.> WHO DA HELL R U?! Pit vs wolf mu discussion

[pitskeyblade]

I believe our Ftilt can go through Wolf's reflector. But I'm not sure. If so, it would be a good potential punisher if we time past the slow start up. The timing for Ftilt is weird. Maybe that's why it worked so well for me. My opponents weren't expecting the move to start up as slowly and last as long as it did. Holy crap, I forgot about Dair! *facepalm* I used it with fastfall to punish an Uair from Wolf after he tried to chase me in the air. But once again, timing and spacing is everything. Try to angle it from the side, otherwise you'll get hit by the Uair. I believe one of Wolf's attacks has a disjointed hitbox because when I tried to punish it I was clearly within his hitbox but it didn't hurt him. I think it was either Utilt or Usmash. Somebody help me out with that.

 

[Deleted member]

Nothing can "go through" Wolf's shine. It has 9(or 8? I think it's 9) frames of invincibility that will protect Wolf. After that, sure, but a halfway decent Wolf isn't just going to sit there and wait.

 

[pitskeyblade]

Do the Wolf mains have a compilation of frame data? If so, link us to it please.

 

[fUddO]

Pit is actually around Mario level weight. I always forget if he's slightly heavier, or slightly lighter though. :/

 

[Seagull Joe]

Nothing can "go through" Wolf's shine. It has 9(or 8? I think it's 9) frames of invincibility that will protect Wolf. After that, sure, but a halfway decent Wolf isn't just going to sit there and wait.

Untrue. Other moves with invincibility or super armor go through shine. Examples:

• Sonic's invicispindash
• Part's of SL
• Wario's Fsmash (If he starts it at least 2 frames earlier then shine)
• DK's invicicopter

 

[Kuro~]

Nothing can "go through" Wolf's shine. It has 9(or 8? I think it's 9) frames of invincibility that will protect Wolf. After that, sure, but a halfway decent Wolf isn't just going to sit there and wait.

She was referring to the fact that if we read a wolf is gonna use shine to try to negate a move ftilt will beat it cuz of it's longer startup cuz it'll outlast the invinvi frames

Pit is actually around Mario level weight. I always forget if he's slightly heavier, or slightly lighter though. :/

He is 0.1 value lower than mario.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

That invincicopter

 

[Abel1994]

Hate fighting wolf
Dat broken shine
Dat broken Dsmash

 

[Ishiey]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194120 <--- Wolf frame data, pretty sure it's accurate.

On shine. Invincible frames 1-9, hitbox frames 8-9. This means we can hit something and remain invincible the frame afterwards, so Wolf should not be trading with any attacks unless the opponent has their own invincibility or SA that allows them to still keep the hitbox out after being hit. So basically, only true way to "beat" shine is to time SA/invincibility through it and hit during the cooldown. If you bait a shine, you can take advantage of it with a ftilt. The little retreating animation Pit goes through should help a bit for dodging.

 

[Kuro~]

Pits ftilt rivals snakes second hit of ftilt...he can easily avoid the hitbox due to its range and the start up avoids invinci frames.

Btw i actually don't advocate using ftilt unless you spaced it well, read a shield while spacing it(cuz even wolfs fsmash couldn't punish it then), punish an AD to ground, predict a shine, or spotdodge, or predict a ledgehob option.


High reward high risk. While for all the above we could just charge our frame 5 dsmash for a safer option. But the trajectory and knockback isn't as beneficial as ftilt.

 

[Pitzer]

So I hear Pit's generally like stages that he can fly under, so I'm guessing he doesn't care much for Yoshi's Island or Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2? Possible counterpicks for Wolf?

As for you guys, I'd say Frigate. The first transformation of that stage isn't kind to spacies in general.

Most pit's agree to not liking Yoshi's, I on the other will tell you that's my best stage, that and Ps1. The best way to hinder pit is to pick stages where he can't fly under. Saying that though, I love them, makes the match harder for me and breaks my habits.

Wolf vs Pit.


I'll try my best to summarize this.

After talking to Seagull for a while I can safely say that this match up is near even somethings I don't agree on. One being the Free Dair from pit sharking, A smart pit wouldn't shark in a position to get Dair'd, Hell pit shouldn't even be sharking not near the ledge anyways.

Pit should be running this whole match. Run Pivot arrows. You see bairs? Shield and walk away, since you know wolf is gonna try and bair again.

Ban's, Ban Yoshi's.

Cp's Frigate, FD. Any stage that makes wolf's recovery harder is a better stage.

Pit has two true combo's on Wolf

at 0%

Grab Throw Forward Dtilt. 21%
Grab Throw Forward x3, F-smash 53% Roughly.
Do not Be above Wolf at higher percents his Up-smash OoS is extremely good.


What's needed in this match

Patience
Pivot Arrows
Slow Jabs
Up-throws at higher percents
Arrow him offstage
Uptilt OoS
Baiting shines
Hard reads.

I'd in all honesty range this match from 54.5-45.5 Pits favor to 56.2-43.8 Wolfs favor

 

[Krystedez]

Your numbers confuse me, but tell me that it looks like you think it's more likely Pit's favor sometimes...

Least someone else thinks so @_@

 

[Pitzer]

We have better stages to work on.

 

[Abel1994]

Throw him off stage.

Nuff siad

 

[Ishiey]

I'd in all honesty range this match from 54.5-45.5 Pits favor to 56.2-43.8 Wolfs favor

Oh god, the numbers X_____x why can't we just stick to the -4/+4 scale? And these numbers state that your opinion is that the MU can range from +4.5 Pit (that far above 50/50) to +6.2 Wolf. Doesn't that mean you think Wolf has a slight edge? Anyways, I'm glad that the general consensus seems to be that the MU is even-ish. It's been a while since I've seen this much informed consistency in a MU thread

 

[Kuro~]

Welcome to the pit boards. Where we try to not spout bull**** and work with our fellow brawlers to get **** straight.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i like this MU. sharking is not outruled because everyone should know to space uair to the side so they don't get spiked. there honestly isn't much else i can say. just that i think it is even and that's it

 

[Pitzer]

The match up ranges is stage dependent in my opinion. But I will say On bf. Its dead even

 

[Abel1994]

I cant Grab combo him because of shine

IM force to sheild all the time now and that Dsmash is killable!


I usually run and arrow gay him lol expecailly when im winning by a stock i never approach his dsmash spaming 1hitko ***

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

alright, just because this ain't been hit in so long, im gonna throw out some random facts about this MU.

1. you pretty much use your whole moveset to combat wolf because you need everything at some point. this includes sliding usmashes and cg/combo set ups.

2. learn to time retreating fairs, dairs, sh uairs, and arrows to combat his bair spacing.

3. his shine can mess up your **** so be sure you space your moves so that you either don't get hit by it's hitbox and mix up laggy moves like ftilt and jab.

4. his up be is mirror bait at an angle, his side b can be punished most of the time, even if it's just with arrow.

5. he kills earlier than us in general, has better air mobility normally, and kills fast too. whereas our best kill move (bair) is harder to land in this MU.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Restressing to take advantage of wolfs RCO/phantom/landing penalty lag.

 

[Pitzer]

Restressing to take advantage of wolfs RCO/phantom/landing penalty lag.

Yes, this. Most people however know about landing lag. Try to bait them to airdodge to the ground while they have the lag.