Hut of the Move Tutors: Mewtwo's Combo Compendium

[Sonicninja115]

Hmm. They may be able to air dodge it. So I don't think it's true, but it can work.

Are they able to jump out? What are the options to get out, because if there is only one option then it is still good. If they learn to avoid it, punish the air dodge with a fsmash or stutter step Fsmash.

 

[420quickscoper]

Are they able to jump out? What are the options to get out, because if there is only one option then it is still good. If they learn to avoid it, punish the air dodge with a fsmash or stutter step Fsmash.

I had tried it on meleebrawler and it didn't work because he could tech it. Either I wasn't close enough to him, or it can't hit floaty characters like Mewtwo.

It may only work on fastfallers. I'ma try it on CF.

If you're really close then it'll combo on a number of fastfallers.

 

[Sonicninja115]

New linking combo! At 0% on Marth (only one I have tested so far) Dtilt-Fair-FF Uair-Utilt-Follow-up. It is not foolproof, but I believe that the Uair might be unavoidable and the Utilt is definetly inescapable. Depending on the Utilt hitbox, you can either get a Bair, Jab to combo or grab off. I will test it in more detail over the next couple of days.

 

[Metalex]

Sonicninja115 That's interesting, a linking combo i pull off often at low percent is Dtilt > fj Fair > ff Uair > Jab > Followup, this is from a friendly match against Trifroze a while back (just as a example)

Utilt might be a better followup though, gonna try it!

(Btw, sorry if it's annoying that i drop GIFs everywhere, but it's a good way to showcase things)

 

[Sonicninja115]

Sonicninja115 That's interesting, a linking combo i pull off often at low percent is Dtilt > fj Fair > ff Uair > Jab > Followup, this is from a friendly match against Trifroze a while back (just as a example)

Utilt might be a better followup though, gonna try it!

(Btw, sorry if it's annoying that i drop GIFs everywhere, but it's a good way to showcase things)

Gifts are fine, they help people better visualize hard combos.

I actually never thought of using it into jab, but that is a much safer option then Utilt. You have to do some tricky momentum things to get the Utilt correctly, and it is more beneficial to start a Dtilt-Nair-Bair combo for a total of about 60%

Also, I saw Mewsquared use Jab-Utilt-Usmash and Dtilt-Fair-FF Disable. The first combo is known but the second seems like a good mix-up.

With the first combo, did we ever find out if it is DI'able? I seem to have trouble as my brothers always DI it.

 

[Metalex]

Gifts are fine, they help people better visualize hard combos.

I actually never thought of using it into jab, but that is a much safer option then Utilt. You have to do some tricky momentum things to get the Utilt correctly, and it is more beneficial to start a Dtilt-Nair-Bair combo for a total of about 60%

Also, I saw Mewsquared use Jab-Utilt-Usmash and Dtilt-Fair-FF Disable. The first combo is known but the second seems like a good mix-up.

With the first combo, did we ever find out if it is DI'able? I seem to have trouble as my brothers always DI it.

After testing it more it seems that Jab usually is the better option than Utilt, and Dtilt > Nair > Bair is probably the best finisher to get optimal damage!

Regarding the Jab > Weak Utilt > Usmash combo, im sure you saw the thread about it that i made, but i haven't tested everything fully with DI yet. It seems so far that DI shouldn't have much of an influence but im going to test DI with all characters this week.

Dtilt > Fair > ff Disable sound like it could be a neat mixup gotta test that, but wouldn't Dtilt > Fair > ff Uair > Jab > Disable work as well?

 

[Sonicninja115]

After testing it more it seems that Jab usually is the better option than Utilt, and Dtilt > Nair > Bair is probably the best finisher to get optimal damage!

Regarding the Jab > Weak Utilt > Usmash combo, im sure you saw the thread i made about it that i made, but i haven't tested everything fully with DI yet. It seems so far that DI shouldn't have much of an influence but im going to test DI with all characters this week.

Dtilt > Fair > ff Disable sound like it could be a neat mixup gotta test that, but wouldn't Dtilt > Fair > ff Uair > Jab > Disable work as well?

In regards to the new combo, the best option at the highest level is Utilt-Bair-Jablock. It isn't guaranteed, but it is the most beneficial. There are other options if they tech, and it puts you in an advantaged state anyways.

I saw the thread, I was just noting that a Pro had picked it up. Thanks for looking into it more!

Yes it would, probably. It might depend on them airdodging. But there are many options out of that combo, so anything should work. I will look into the escape options.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

Thank you so much! I've always felt my Mewtwo game was a little lacking, even on better days. Can't wait to try some of these later today.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I tested the combo on Ike, Mario and Shiek and found this.

The combo works best at about 5-15% to get out, DI Down and Nair. If the opponent airdodges, punish the landing lag. The combo is not even a linking combo, however, if they DI any direction besides down, then it will force them to trade, or airdodge. If you use it enough and they catch on, start using mix-ups.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Put R.O.B. in, and I was about to start getting the average numbers, when I realized Mario was a placeholder. I will try to do Mario and get this done before Christmas, however, if anyone else wants to do Mario for me, that would be amazing.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Seeing this thread restores some of my faith in this character.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Seeing this thread restores some of my faith in this character.

It isn't even done yet, people just like to focus on Mewtwo's weaknesses. He is really not that bad of a character.

 

[meleebrawler]

I can only see Mewtwo going up in the future, whether he gets buffs or not.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I can only see Mewtwo going up in the future, whether he gets buffs or not.

The only buffs he needs are superficial or icing on the cake. I don't think he NEEDS buffs, but it would be quite nice to receive them.

 

[420quickscoper]

I can only see Mewtwo going up in the future, whether he gets buffs or not.

That's a really good way to think about it, you know.
Mewtwo has more stuff that we can uncover, really.
I cannot wait for the day that almost everyone thinks he's at least mid low.
We all put a bunch of time into this character, don't we?

Now, here's the problem.
Unfortunately there are a lot of Mewtwo mains out there who thinks he's Bottom 5.
Some people only look at his flaws and not the huge set of tools he has.

I'm just going to agree with MewSquared here.
Maybe he isn't solo viable yet. I kind of doubt that.
But with progression in the metagame, I think he will be.

I think the only way Mewtwo can go down is if some other "low tier" or "bottom tier" or maybe even mid tiers go up the tier list. That could be bad.

Think about this. I actually think Mewtwo has the amount of tools as a high or top tier... but the attributes of a bottom tier.
He's huge and very light, and sometimes we all just think about that too much.

Maybe it's time for another era.
Why are we complaining about his weight? Why don't we not just get hit?

Personally I think that developing the best possible punish in almost every situation with the character, and learning how to cover his bad attributes are the two most important things about this character.

If we all work hard, we will see the light of day. Promise.

The only buffs he needs are superficial or icing on the cake. I don't think he NEEDS buffs, but it would be quite nice to receive them.

I'm glad to see multiple people think this way.
It would be quite nice to receive them. Hitbox fixes and a LITTLE bit better frame data would be nice. I would personally LOVE a Frame 3 Jab and Down Tilt.... uh, is that asking for a little too much? I hope it isn't. I just want this character to be a LITTLE bit faster. I mean, come on! His speed in the Pokemon games are an awesome 130 stat. If not in frame data speed, dashing speed would be cool, but I think that's not so simple to change. It just makes sense for the character to be quick in my opinion.

The only buffs he really "needs" are better hatboxes. I still question why those haven't been patched.

Even without that I am actually quite fine with this character. We just got to work to the day of the light with this character. :')



Anyways, I suppose you remember my up tilt combo thread.
Well, it really doesn't work.

But here's the thing.
If you do get it to work even a little bit, you can do some really cool stuff.
Like, Jab-Up tilt-Jab-Up tilt-Down tilt-Nair-Fair/Bair

And a lot of other followups as well, since your opponent is right in front of you.
These setups will be pretty character specific though.

 

[Sonicninja115]

420quickscoper

The Utilt combo can be DI'ed away, other then that it works. I think it is something to be benched, but not forgotten. I will make a section in the Metagame threa about area's of Mewtwo that still need to be labbed in depth.

Good Isai quote there. And I think that there is no way Mewtwo is bottom tier. The Mewtwo mains we have are really good. A bit too good for a bottom tier.

 

[420quickscoper]

420quickscoper

The Utilt combo can be DI'ed away, other then that it works. I think it is something to be benched, but not forgotten. I will make a section in the Metagame threa about area's of Mewtwo that still need to be labbed in depth.

Good Isai quote there. And I think that there is no way Mewtwo is bottom tier. The Mewtwo mains we have are really good. A bit too good for a bottom tier.

I'm really thinking that people who say Mewtwo is bottom tier focus too much on his negatives. The ones who are positive about him have much more success. Just look at MewSquared!

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'm really thinking that people who say Mewtwo is bottom tier focus too much on his negatives. The ones who are positive about him have much more success. Just look at MewSquared!

Mewsquared is definitely the best Mewtwo right now. I don't think it will be too long before he is the best in his PR region, unless Aerolink or Karna level up.

 

[420quickscoper]

Mewsquared is definitely the best Mewtwo right now. I don't think it will be too long before he is the best in his PR region, unless Aerolink or Karna level up.

Even then, he's not a full potential Mewtwo.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Even then, he's not a full potential Mewtwo.

He is slowly adding things to his game. He doesn't use it unless he has it mastered, at least that is what it looks like. He also does his own labbing, and I often see new things in his matches. He gave me the idea that helped me solve Nair's KB.

 

[meleebrawler]

That's a really good way to think about it, you know.
Mewtwo has more stuff that we can uncover, really.
I cannot wait for the day that almost everyone thinks he's at least mid low.
We all put a bunch of time into this character, don't we?

Now, here's the problem.
Unfortunately there are a lot of Mewtwo mains out there who thinks he's Bottom 5.
Some people only look at his flaws and not the huge set of tools he has.

I'm just going to agree with MewSquared here.
Maybe he isn't solo viable yet. I kind of doubt that.
But with progression in the metagame, I think he will be.

I think the only way Mewtwo can go down is if some other "low tier" or "bottom tier" or maybe even mid tiers go up the tier list. That could be bad.

Think about this. I actually think Mewtwo has the amount of tools as a high or top tier... but the attributes of a bottom tier.
He's huge and very light, and sometimes we all just think about that too much.

Maybe it's time for another era.
Why are we complaining about his weight? Why don't we not just get hit?

Personally I think that developing the best possible punish in almost every situation with the character, and learning how to cover his bad attributes are the two most important things about this character.

If we all work hard, we will see the light of day. Promise.

I'm glad to see multiple people think this way.
It would be quite nice to receive them. Hitbox fixes and a LITTLE bit better frame data would be nice. I would personally LOVE a Frame 3 Jab and Down Tilt.... uh, is that asking for a little too much? I hope it isn't. I just want this character to be a LITTLE bit faster. I mean, come on! His speed in the Pokemon games are an awesome 130 stat. If not in frame data speed, dashing speed would be cool, but I think that's not so simple to change. It just makes sense for the character to be quick in my opinion.

The only buffs he really "needs" are better hatboxes. I still question why those haven't been patched.

Even without that I am actually quite fine with this character. We just got to work to the day of the light with this character. :')



Anyways, I suppose you remember my up tilt combo thread.
Well, it really doesn't work.

But here's the thing.
If you do get it to work even a little bit, you can do some really cool stuff.
Like, Jab-Up tilt-Jab-Up tilt-Down tilt-Nair-Fair/Bair

And a lot of other followups as well, since your opponent is right in front of you.
These setups will be pretty character specific though.

I mean, Rosalina has pretty much the same attributes while being much more floaty, and look where she is.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I mean, Rosalina has pretty much the same attributes while being much more floaty, and look where she is.

And she also has a large upside in Luma. However, I think Rosa is a bit more annoying right now, it will be a while before any Mewtwo player gets as good as Dabuz is right now.

 

[420quickscoper]

I mean, Rosalina has pretty much the same attributes while being much more floaty, and look where she is.

Honestly I think Mewtwo's negatives are overrated. People make too much of a deal with them when it should be the opposite.

He is slowly adding things to his game. He doesn't use it unless he has it mastered, at least that is what it looks like. He also does his own labbing, and I often see new things in his matches. He gave me the idea that helped me solve Nair's KB.

Mhm.

I'm really glad people like you and meleebrawler work to progress this character instead of whining about his flaws. You're awesome.

We should probably get back on topic though.

 

[meleebrawler]

I tried that "infinite" jab-utilt today on an Ike, got about three before the utilt knocked him out instead.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Honestly I think Mewtwo's negatives are overrated. People make too much of a deal with them when it should be the opposite.

Mhm.

I'm really glad people like you and meleebrawler work to progress this character instead of whining about his flaws. You're awesome.

We should probably get back on topic though.

Ok, my most recent hypothesis is Dtilt-Nair-Falling Nair-Dtilt. If Fair and Bair true, I think Nair should as well, and if we fall correctly, it could true into Dtilt. thoughts?

meleebrawler I think it will work, I don't know how good it is right now, but we should definetly look into it or put it on the To Do lList.

 

[meleebrawler]

Ok, my most recent hypothesis is Dtilt-Nair-Falling Nair-Dtilt. If Fair and Bair true, I think Nair should as well, and if we fall correctly, it could true into Dtilt. thoughts?

meleebrawler I think it will work, I don't know how good it is right now, but we should definetly look into it or put it on the To Do lList.

I'd treat it in the same vein as something like Ryu's light utilt strings, might be kept up indefinitely if you know what you're doing but in practice it's usually better to finish it with something strong before it drops (in this case, by either grabbing or usmash).

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'd treat it in the same vein as something like Ryu's light utilt strings, might be kept up indefinitely if you know what you're doing but in practice it's usually better to finish it with something strong before it drops (in this case, by either grabbing or usmash).

You do know how people can get out right? We might be able to see there DI in game and react fast enough. If we can tell when they are DI'ing out, then we could either finish the combo or PP into another Jab/Grab/Smash.

Also, I have almost gotten PP down, and will try to make a section detailing PP's usefulness with Mewtwo. (it's great by the way, and expect it by next year hopefully.)

 

[SlurpySloth]

Hey, I was just labbing against Sheik on BF, and found that D-air can hit through platforms.
So, from what I've tested, (on Sheik anyways,)

D-air (through platform) > F-air can be a true kill combo at higher percents, because of the extra jump height that you gain via the platform.

Edit: All taller characters are susceptible to PP D-air. (PF = Platform Phazed?)

 

[Sonicninja115]

Hey, I was just labbing against Sheik on BF, and found that D-air can hit through platforms.
So, from what I've tested, (on Sheik anyways,)

D-air (through platform) > F-air can be a true kill combo at higher percents, because of the extra jump height that you gain via the platform.

Interesting! Dair to Fair trues if done correctly, frame perfect and at low Percents. I hadn't thought about doing it that way. I will look into it!

 

[Metalex]

Gotta say Dair is a pretty interesting combo tool, haven't experimented with Dair much until lately.

Just discovered (Rar) fj Dair > dj Bair > ff Bair (38% dmg) True combos at about 60 - 80% on midweights, and KO's or sets up for ledgeguards easily if done near the ledge.

(Doesnt need to be Rar'd but it's easier since then you have the momentum in the right direction.)

 

[Sonicninja115]

Gotta say Dair is a pretty interesting combo tool, haven't experimented with Dair much until lately.

Just discovered (Rar) fj Dair > dj Bair > ff Bair (38% dmg) True combos at about 60 - 80% on midweights, and KO's or sets up for ledgeguards easily if done near the ledge.

(Doesnt need to be Rar'd but it's easier since then you have the momentum in the right direction.)

Really? that's awesome! do you know if Dair can be cancelled?

 

[SlurpySloth]

What do you mean by: "Cancel?"

 

[meleebrawler]

It would be quite nice to receive them. Hitbox fixes and a LITTLE bit better frame data would be nice. I would personally LOVE a Frame 3 Jab and Down Tilt.... uh, is that asking for a little too much? I hope it isn't. I just want this character to be a LITTLE bit faster. I mean, come on! His speed in the Pokemon games are an awesome 130 stat. If not in frame data speed, dashing speed would be cool, but I think that's not so simple to change. It just makes sense for the character to be quick in my opinion.

The only buffs he really "needs" are better hatboxes. I still question why those haven't been patched.

Thing is the below average startup on some of his moves are offset by their range, and sometimes power. Jab is disjointed, multihit has pretty impressive reach, combos into almost anything and doesn't clank normally.

Ever since the past iterations of Marth and *ahem* THIS GUY , you can see why the developers are wary of giving characters with long-ranged disjointed normals good frame data.

If any move of Mewtwo's deserves to start faster, it's nair (and fsmash/dsmash, though just nitpicking so that they match the animation and Palutena's usmash does the same).

 

[Sonicninja115]

I know Ganon can do this.

 

[ShadowKing]

Dtilt-Bair(Weak)-Dair.You need to read your opponents DI to land the dair if not go for a fair or something (Works at about 40-60%)

 

[SlurpySloth]

On fastfallers I was able to true combo FF F-air into an Upwards-F-tilt. You have to be extremely quick about it though, and the percent window is small, but it's easy damage if you can get a simple read.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Dtilt-Bair(Weak)-Dair.You need to read your opponents DI to land the dair if not go for a fair or something (Works at about 40-60%)

Do you RAR the Bair?

On fastfallers I was able to true combo FF F-air into an Upwards-F-tilt. You have to be extremely quick about it though, and the percent window is small, but it's easy damage if you can get a simple read.

I have heard of the FF Fair combos, but I have never been able to replicate them. I will have to try again.

 

[ShadowKing]

Do you RAR the Bair?

Yes but hard to master.If your slowly learning to RAR with mewtwos bair then I suggest a weak fair-Dair or Dtilt-Nair-Dair

 

[Sonicninja115]

Wuts RAR?(Wanna know before answering)

Reverse Aerial Rush. It is a technique that allows you to dash forward, turn and then maintain your momentum through the air. It's mainly used for Bairs out of Fthrows.

 

[Metalex]

Really? that's awesome! do you know if Dair can be cancelled?

Im not sure if you can frame cancel Mewtwo's Dair actually, could probably have some applications if it's possible though. Gotta look at it!

On fastfallers I was able to true combo FF F-air into an Upwards-F-tilt. You have to be extremely quick about it though, and the percent window is small, but it's easy damage if you can get a simple read.

That's cool, hadn't thought of that! Seems to work from 0% to about 30%

On the subject of ff Fair combos, here's some that are pretty percent specific but deals big damage. Most of them are also easier to perform on fastfallers:

ff Fair > fj Fair (26% dmg) (combos at 0 - 40%)
ff Fair > fj Fair > ff Fair (39%) (combos at 15 - 25%)

ff Fair > Dtilt > fj Fair (31% dmg) (combos at 0 - 15%)
ff Fair > Dtilt > fj Fair > dj Fair (44% dmg) (combos at 0 - 15% on Fastfallers)

ff Fair > strong Utilt > fj Bair (32% dmg) (combos at 5 - 25%)
ff Fair > strong Utilt > fj Uair (29% dmg) (combos 5 - 30%)

ff Fair > fj Nair > dj Bair (38% dmg) (combos at 15 - 25%)

These are only rough percentages but i think it's pretty accurate.