KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Kirby would still be horrible.
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How would you balance the cast?
- Thread starter enCouRaging Bear
- Start date
enCouRaging Bear
Smash Journeyman
i agree though i'd like a little more than playable, id like near balance like a/b tiers only
most of the chars look like they've been given a decent amount of thought into their playstyle and then there are some with these 1-3 WTF WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?!?!!? things in them that make them unplayable
looks like most people don't seem to be more in favor of keeping the s tiers where they are and buffing up to their level with the mindset of "spacies are spacies and that's the way its going to be!" lol
musashi
Smash Apprentice
Spacies arent that broken, ask any player who is atleast decent at the game and theyll prefer to play a spacie than a Peach or Jiggs or Sheik.
Svetsunov
Smash Apprentice
I think overall i'd probably buff most of the low tiers to have slightly better recoveries.
I'd give yoshi a little something to help him, but not sure what(Maybe a change to egg). Give the player a little more control over egg and fix his dashgrab so its actually useful. I'd buff the overall speed of Fair to make it a tad more consistent. I'd also probably make his shield a normal shield instead of the egg thing because it really bothers me.
I'd give yoshi a little something to help him, but not sure what(Maybe a change to egg). Give the player a little more control over egg and fix his dashgrab so its actually useful. I'd buff the overall speed of Fair to make it a tad more consistent. I'd also probably make his shield a normal shield instead of the egg thing because it really bothers me.
Spyro
Smash Ace
It would help if Pikachu did not get shield stabed so easy and had a decent grab rang.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
enCouRaging Bear
Smash Journeyman
making better recoveries is generally not a good idea especially if they render edgeguarding ineffective
that's one problem with a game like project m
ike's up-b doesn't transfer well into a melee environment because there really isn't much of a way to challenge it: you can't edgehog cuz the sword will hover over the edge and the entire area will cover that animation until your ledgegrab invincibility is gone
certain good recoveries can make the game really tedious.
too many returns to stage = ruining of momentum
that's one problem with a game like project m
ike's up-b doesn't transfer well into a melee environment because there really isn't much of a way to challenge it: you can't edgehog cuz the sword will hover over the edge and the entire area will cover that animation until your ledgegrab invincibility is gone
certain good recoveries can make the game really tedious.
too many returns to stage = ruining of momentum
Mr.Jackpot
Smash Lord
Make Ness' PSI Magnet a shine that heals instead of reflecting.
Just why...
Also, Ike's recovery in project M. Probs shield the sword then backdash oos onto the ledge.
Jockmaster
Smash Ace
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Important note: that video was when ledge occupancy was still Brawl's. It's easier to edgehog Ike now than it was in that video.
Yes, P:M is basically on the Melee engine. However, that means you also have to learn new tricks.
..And yeah. P:M would be how I'd balance Melee. Top tiers barely get touched, (sup Sheik Dthrow) everybody else gets better. We'll see how the approach works there. Right now, people can't decide if Toon Link is god tier or crap tier, so.
Yes, P:M is basically on the Melee engine. However, that means you also have to learn new tricks.
..And yeah. P:M would be how I'd balance Melee. Top tiers barely get touched, (sup Sheik Dthrow) everybody else gets better. We'll see how the approach works there. Right now, people can't decide if Toon Link is god tier or crap tier, so.
Jockmaster
Smash Ace
His recovery is so bad...but I guess this thread isn't for P:M discussion
As far as universal changes, the biggest thing is I'd implement a system like HORSE, where landing hits on certain moves gains a letter (or more) in the word SMASH. These moves are usually otherwise underused, so that will offset the advantage you get from landing them. You also gain a letter for every hit you take over 150% How many letters you have are shown over your damage.
As far as what it's used for, I have a couple things in mind.
Smash Cancel (1 Letter): Pressing R when any ground normal or non-projectile special has connected cancels it with a predetermined about of lag. This allows characters with few aerial options to have safer ground games.
Helpless Cancels (2 Letters): Pressing B ten frames or less before a recovery move sends you into fall-special cancels the fallspecial animation, and causes you to be able to do anything. This helps characters with poor recoveries tremendously, and makes DPs safer as long as you have the meter to pull it off.
Counterattack (4 Letters): Basically like Marth's Counter, except it can be done during blockstun and hitstun by pressing r+a+b. When the animation ends, though, you go into helpless if you're in the air.
Supers (5 Letters): **** Smash Balls. You have to earn these supers. Pressing a+b activates the super. Also, these supers would be balanced.
The other mechanic change I would introduce is making ledgegrabs cost shield HP. If you have no shield HP, you don't grab the ledge. When you're under a certain about of shield HP, you flash red instead of white during invincibility frames.
Other than that, it'd mostly be character specific tweaks. Nerf Fox's damage output but retain his throughput and speed, "nerf" Falco's lasers by making them not fullscreen (I put it in quotes because this would also reduce the efficacy of PS lasers), use PAL Sheik. Actually, other than not nerfing spacies at all, I feel like the PMBR is doing a really good job of balancing the cast itself.
As far as what it's used for, I have a couple things in mind.
Smash Cancel (1 Letter): Pressing R when any ground normal or non-projectile special has connected cancels it with a predetermined about of lag. This allows characters with few aerial options to have safer ground games.
Helpless Cancels (2 Letters): Pressing B ten frames or less before a recovery move sends you into fall-special cancels the fallspecial animation, and causes you to be able to do anything. This helps characters with poor recoveries tremendously, and makes DPs safer as long as you have the meter to pull it off.
Counterattack (4 Letters): Basically like Marth's Counter, except it can be done during blockstun and hitstun by pressing r+a+b. When the animation ends, though, you go into helpless if you're in the air.
Supers (5 Letters): **** Smash Balls. You have to earn these supers. Pressing a+b activates the super. Also, these supers would be balanced.
The other mechanic change I would introduce is making ledgegrabs cost shield HP. If you have no shield HP, you don't grab the ledge. When you're under a certain about of shield HP, you flash red instead of white during invincibility frames.
Other than that, it'd mostly be character specific tweaks. Nerf Fox's damage output but retain his throughput and speed, "nerf" Falco's lasers by making them not fullscreen (I put it in quotes because this would also reduce the efficacy of PS lasers), use PAL Sheik. Actually, other than not nerfing spacies at all, I feel like the PMBR is doing a really good job of balancing the cast itself.
It's called Lucas:M.
A Yana Mij
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2006
- Messages
- 3
It's been a while since I posted on these boards, but I've recently come back to playing Melee. Anyhow, my thoughts in general are that the top-tier characters are fine ... let's find ways of improving the bottom tier. I'll only comment on the low-tier characters I have experience playing with.
Zelda:
- Make her movement speed faster. (Maybe make her like Peach.)
- Lower lag off Nayru's Love.
- Lower lag off Farore's Wind.
- Rework Din's Fire completely since she effectively has no down+B move. Perhaps make it into a projectile like Samus' missile.
- Remove her dair and replace it with something that could create combos into fair/dair.
G&W:
- Fix his shield.
- Make him heavier.
- Lower his lag time on evades.
- Make Oil Panic only require 1 charge to use and make it instant on/off like Fox/Falco reflectors.
- Make his bacon/sausage/whatever fly in a non-random arc and not disappear until it hits something. Also lower the lag on it.
- Make his up+B more DI'able.
Zelda:
- Make her movement speed faster. (Maybe make her like Peach.)
- Lower lag off Nayru's Love.
- Lower lag off Farore's Wind.
- Rework Din's Fire completely since she effectively has no down+B move. Perhaps make it into a projectile like Samus' missile.
- Remove her dair and replace it with something that could create combos into fair/dair.
G&W:
- Fix his shield.
- Make him heavier.
- Lower his lag time on evades.
- Make Oil Panic only require 1 charge to use and make it instant on/off like Fox/Falco reflectors.
- Make his bacon/sausage/whatever fly in a non-random arc and not disappear until it hits something. Also lower the lag on it.
- Make his up+B more DI'able.