How would Brawl players feel about a Balanced Brawl event?

[blakinola]

People who have heard about B+ have maybe heard about Balanced Brawl. In a nutshell, it takes a lot of stupid things out of the game and aims to make more characters and more stages competitively viable.

The biggest things:
-No ******** chaingrabs (cough wario, pika, falco, D3)
-no infinites
-ICs can still CG but timing is much more strict.
-No banana locking (if you're hit by a tripping element, and are tripped by anything again, you will stand up.)
-Whorenado doesn't **** anymore
-Snake's Utilt/Ftilt toned down

Suggested Starter Stages:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Delfino Plaza
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Smashville
PictoChat (Yes I went there)
Pokemon Stadium 1 (I'll probably remove this/switch with Stadium 2)
WiFi Training Room (select Hannenbow) (sandbag ftfw.)

Counterpicks:
Luigi's Mansion (will most likely remove this)
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 (hold X or Y)
Mario Circuit
Norfair (will most likely remove this)
Frigate Orpheon
Pokemon Stadium 2
Distant Planet (this is a pretty great stage)
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Jungle Japes (I will probably remove this)
Onett (On the fence about this)
Corneria (With the extended blastzones, it's a nice CP)
Rainbow Cruise
Green Greens (On the fence about this)
Brinstar

For a complete list of changes, please look at the OP of this thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246327

If you suck at / don't like reading, here are the showcase videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpQkTMNLsBI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJgfKP0kUgg&feature=channel

I have played this and it's really good. A breath of fresh air for those who still like Brawl mechanics but are tired of high-tier whoring and slight OPness. If you wanna play B+ then go play B+. I just want to reiterate that the top tier characters are still really good, but don't be surprised if other characters take the top 5/10 whatever. Mario will mess you up. Ask Pierce.

Would anyone in NJ/PA be interesting in attending a tourney if I hosted one. It would be a 5 dollar entry / 5 dollar venue fee, and with ChiboSempai helping, I'm sure it would run smoothly and on time. This is to playtest the release and make this more standard, because I don't like what vBrawl is atm.

If there's enough interest, I would love to hold something in the next month or two.

Thanks for any input, and have a good day. Africa powahhh

 

[Inui]

UTD Zac says it's awesome, so it must be awesome.

 

[blakinola]

UTD Zac says it's awesome, so it must be awesome.

Inui, you have the power of Jersey to bring the masses to Philly, so make it happen.

Plus free tourney (minue venue fee)? How could you resist?! Also, good playing yesterday.

 

[Inui]

I don't think you should use your own money to pay for it or make it free. Just have a $5 entry fee. Nobody is going to complain about that, you can pay out the winners decently, and you don't have to unfairly give up your own money.

 

[blakinola]

All of that can be determined based on this thread--but I at least wanted people to have as little fear as possible for entering.

But not a bad idea.

 

[daisho]

Yes. And btw yes do this. Also do it on a sunday but don't really. Id go but I can't, do it anyway. (If it happens in the winter id be able stop by at the end).

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

I'm up for it. Yay Wolf isn't held back from CG's anymore =D

 

[ksizl4life]

people Who Have Heard About B+ Have Maybe Heard About Balanced Brawl. In A Nutshell, It Takes A Lot Of Stupid Things Out Of The Game And Aims To Make More Characters And More Stages Competitively Viable.

The Biggest Things:
-no ******** Chaingrabs (cough Wario, Pika, Falco, D3)
-no Infinites
-ics Can Still Cg But Timing Is Much More Strict.
-no Banana Locking (if You're Hit By A Tripping Element, And Are Tripped By Anything Again, You Will Stand Up.)
-whorenado Doesn't **** Anymore
-snake's Utilt/ftilt Toned Down

For A Complete List Of Changes, Please Look At The Op Of This Thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246327

I Played This And It's Really Good. A Breath Of Fresh Air For Those Who Still Like Brawl Mechanics. If You Wanna Play B+ Then Go Play B+. I Just Want To Reiterate That The Top Tier Characters Are Still Really Good, But Don't Be Surprised If Other Characters Take The Top 5/10 Whatever.

Would Anyone In Nj/pa Be Interesting In Attending A Tourney If I Hosted One. I Would Use My Own Money To Pay The 1st, 2nd, And 3rd Place Winner, And With Chibosempai Helping, I'm Sure It Would Run Smoothly And On Time.

If There's Enough Interest, I Would Love To Hold Something In The Next Month Or Two.

Thanks For Any Input, And Have A Good Day.

Omfgggggggggg

 

[Seagull Joe]

Bring it to md/va or south pa and I'll go.

 

[Coney]

i hear my best character is apparently nonviable

but i'd always thought that DDD would be fine enough even without the CG

is that the only thing that's changed? if so, sure

if not, i guess, i'll just have to secondary it up

 

[CRASHiC]

Coney, my argument isn't that DDD is nonviable, but that there is no reason to take the non-infinite out of the equation other than personal preference, and thus his matchups with Marth, Peach, Diddy, Snake, and non-infinite Luigi are horrible matchups, almost not worth playing, and we have been given no other tools beyond this. He claims he doesn't want to change the design of the game, but DDDs chaingrab is intentional, and taking it out defies the purpose of the hack all together. Other than the infinite, the D3 only destroys characters who don't have the tools to deal with it, charecters who already needed buffs other than DK. He also changed other things that make no sense. He nerfed Snake's jab that doesn't even hit, he buffed a move that a ZSS will never use, among other things.

 

[CT Chia]

You're logic is pretty awful CRASHiC lol

 

[Coney]

if the only thing changed about DDD are his chaingrabs, and luigi only received a few minor buffs, i fail to understand how he loses to luigi, unless it has to do with the new fireball mechanics

same with marth, DDD doesn't need the CG to beat marth and besides that, the two have had no changes. makes the matchup a bit harder sure but, certainly doable.

diddy though, i could definitely see. if the only thing changed between the two was the CG...seems kinda awful :<

the other matchups, yeh, i guess, especially if they had substantial changes, but not luigi

then again i haven't played BB, soooo

 

[CRASHiC]

You're logic is pretty awful CRASHiC lol

Let's look at the charecters that are destroyed by the chaingrab, with a non-infinite.

Using this as a referance,
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8112294&postcount=7

DIDDY KONG- Diddy, even outside Bananas, has the tools to easily work around DDDs chaingrab and still win the match. Diddy is a good charecter.

WARIO- Wario gets ledge infinited, and still goes 50:50 with DDD. Wario is a good charecter.

PEACH- Peach has the tools to avoid the chaingrab, and goes 50:50 with DDD. Peach is a good charecter.


SNAKE- Snake goes 55-45 against DDD, because snake is a good charecter with a good moveset who can avoid the chaingrab. That chaingrab can in many cases lead to death, because DDD, according to the matchup summary, ***** Snake off stage.


MARTH- Marth is a good charecter, who gets chaingrabed quite often, but still has the tools to go mostly even with DDD.


ROB can't do much from not getting grabed, but he still does not get so killed from the chaingrab, coming in at a 55:45 matchup.


TOON LINK- Yeah, I think you get my drift by now


PIT- Yep, same thing again.


YOSHI- Same again. Notice these are light charecters, and even more this is a low tier charecter who can deal with the chaingrab.

Luigi is regarded as 50/50 without the infinitie.

From there we get some 60:40s, but for mostly non chaingrab reasons, except Ivysaur.


Now we get into the trouble region, where charecters have 70/30 plus. Why? Because these charecters lack the tools to make the matchup a balance between risk and reward unlike the previous matchups. The majority of these characters have huge problems in their movesets outside of D3, except for DK.

So, what happens when you remove the chaingrab from the matchups that are 50/50ish? Let's take Snake as an example.

Snake outcamps D3 hard. D3 has trouble getting to Snake. Now when DDD finally gets to snake, what are his punishment options? Unfortunately because of Snake's speed and range, as well as weight and insane recovers, not very much. The punishment and reward that DDD could recive from approaching Snake is now non-existent. The same can be said for Marth, Peach, Pit, Toon Link, and ROB. These characters now not only exceedingly outcamp D3, but once D3 gets there, his main punishment option is Back throw, which puts them back up in the position to camp again. Luigi can now camp DDD with his sped up projectile. Now, I did not include Diddy and Wario in the matchup because these characters are generally played by going in the air as opposed to going for the chaingrab.

Meanwhile, let's look at what becomes of his currently bad matchups, namely DK.
DK still gets beaten. DDD still can shield grab everything Dk throws at him. Its still a 60:40 matchup. Charisard, Ivysaur, Wolf, Ike, Ganon, Captain Falcon, Link, and Mario all have incredibly trouble off stage against D3. Ness, Lucas, and Sonic still have trouble approaching D3 or camping him for that matter.

So, what we have is a slight reduction on his bad matchups, while his now even matchups go against his favor because of a lack of risk and reward for the D3.

And btw, his chain grab is intentional. There is a burst of air underneath him that keeps charecters a float.

 

[blakinola]

Crashic if you don't like it then that's fine.

Just so you know, they took out the other chaingrabs. D3 grab still grabs everything and you can techchase into ridiculous things. I think you need to open your mind a little more and play and see what develops.

Remember, the purpose of the project was to make all characters more viable in one way or another. There will still be bad matchups--but to get to a game where the worst match-up is 60-40? That's something I would love to work towards, I don't know about you.

Infinites and chaingrabs are stupid. But this is about whether you would like to play or not, not about what should be/shouldn't be in balanced brawl. Take it to the thread.

But thanks for your input.

 

[CRASHiC]

Techchasing doesn't work because they can tech. Why does everyone forget that?

 

[Coney]

diddy and snake seem like the two matchups that i'd most fear, since we lose our one advantage over snake and get camped just as hard, and it's much more difficult to get diddy into an edgeguarding position.

everyone else though, the matchups might have shifted a few points, but saying they're horrible and not worth playing is being a little dramatic.

 

[CRASHiC]

Some such as Pit and Peach, yes, but others like Toon Link and Marth become a major problem without the ability to rack up the damage we need on him, since we will never land an uptilt.
Co18 got knocked out of Genesis by a Toon Link.

 

[Lobos]

To answer the question of the title.......The same way I would feel about a B+ event.

 

[blakinola]

I'm curious as to how much of the game you've played.

In any case, vary your style of play a bit other than throwing?

/2cents

 

[Roxas215]

It's not the chaingrabs that make brawl fail. It's the stupid stuff. You can avoid chaingrabs easily. As a peach player i can say ddd chaingrab is the least of my worries. It's the stupid stuff like being offstage as peach and litteraly can't do anything to get back on when going against mk. Or the dumb stuff like snake'jab killing yet he dont die til 180. Chaingrabs were in both 64 and melee. Stop acting like chaingrabs are new.


With that said i would come. I never played it before and dont know how peach has been buffed/nerfed but im willing to try it out.

 

[CRASHiC]

You shouldn't be getting hit by snake's third jab at all, you can di away, and he is vulnerable.

 

[Roxas215]

You shouldn't be getting hit by snake's third jab at all, you can di away, and he is vulnerable.

Your right. I know all of that. Im just saying it's the stupid stuff like that that makes brawl what it is. It's not chaingrabs.

 

[blakinola]

Crashic stop generalizing this around Dedede and play or not play--please don't **** up the thread. I'm just looking for y/n comments, and feedback to something like this.

 

[blakinola]

Shameless bump--

Just so you guys know, a lot of low tiers have been improved all around like Link for example. He's almost like Snake in a way. As long as he's on the ground, near the center of the stage, he'll mess your day up.

I would love feedback, because I am looking at venues.

 

[Pierce7d]

I play Balanced Brawl and I would attend (and win, lmao, I'm so beast at this game) if I can secure a ride (which I probably will be able to do) if it's not like 4 hours away.

Also, D3 is mad good. Melee-esque tech-chasing.

 

[_Yes!_]

I'd go for funsies.

 

[Pierce7d]

I'd go for funsies.

This greatly increased my chances of coming.

btw Chris, CF is mad fun in this game and even I play him (and you know how much I hate on CF)

 

[Hitman JT]

If Falcon is viable i'll think about it.

 

[Pierce7d]

If Falcon is viable i'll think about it.

He's low tier, but viable IMO. Actually, I'm not sure how he'll deal with GnW, or a couple other characters. Let me put it this way. I would feel comfortable using Captain Falcon against THIS particular crowd, having more experience and above average skill, and expect to place top 3.

Ganon is still not viable in theory, but since players do not play perfect, I could expect to take top 7 with my Ganon.

 

[blakinola]

Yes, Ganon will get shut down by Gdubs, Marth, ect. But he's the train he's supposed to be now.

Videos and other stuff in OP

 

[_Yes!_]

This greatly increased my chances of coming.

btw Chris, CF is mad fun in this game and even I play him (and you know how much I hate on CF)

:D

I've played him with you remember? I still think he's meh. I'd definitely use my dudes Fox and Wolf though.

If Falcon is viable i'll think about it.

I forgot what you said cuz you're colors are crazy to quote...He's not viable still.

He's low tier, but viable IMO. Actually, I'm not sure how he'll deal with GnW, or a couple other characters. Let me put it this way. I would feel comfortable using Captain Falcon against THIS particular crowd, having more experience and above average skill, and expect to place top 3.

Ganon is still not viable in theory, but since players do not play perfect, I could expect to take top 7 with my Ganon.

Nosir he isn't D:

 

[daisho]

Why must people always argue

It seems that you'll have enough people for a tournament africa, hold it!

 

[_Yes!_]

lol this isn't arguing at all dude. i heart pierce and he hearts me.

 

[daisho]

lol this isn't arguing at all dude. i heart pierce and he hearts me.

nah thats cool, was talking about before that. With Crashic and w/e.

 

[Inui]

He's low tier, but viable IMO. Actually, I'm not sure how he'll deal with GnW, or a couple other characters. Let me put it this way. I would feel comfortable using Captain Falcon against THIS particular crowd, having more experience and above average skill, and expect to place top 3.

Ganon is still not viable in theory, but since players do not play perfect, I could expect to take top 7 with my Ganon.

I'll wreck you even though I never played.

 

[daisho]

I'll wreck you even though I never played.

Go money match and record/put on youtube!

 

[_Yes!_]

I'll wreck you even though I never played.

falcon ditto mm in any brawl game let's gooo

 

[Hitman JT]

I forgot what you said cuz you're colors are crazy to quote...He's not viable still.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Never. I read that they got rid of Sheik's tiltlock. Sheik is mediocre and doesn't **** any of the characters that win tournaments by tiltlocking them. If anything, her ftilt should be getting BUFFED to make her better so that the game is more BALANCED. The current title of it should be called Crybaby Brawl.