• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

How will the stock (or timer) rules work in For Fun and For Glory?

How will the stock (or timer) work in For Fun and For Glory?


  • Total voters
    54

staindgrey

I have a YouTube channel.
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
11,489
Location
The 90's
NNID
staindgrey
3DS FC
0130-1865-3216
Switch FC
SW 1248 1677 4696
Haha, always some kid who complains about how I type. I'm sorry for not bowing.
Obviously, the matchmakin would take a bit longer with more options. But it's totally worth it. I'd rather wait 5 minutes for a game with stocks than 2 seconds for a game with a time limit. I hate that ****.
I'm... confused. I wasn't commenting on how you type at all. And how did we jump to bowing?

I'm still not sure that you understand the issue. On one hand, you're jumping to conclusions that haven't yet been proven. On the other, you're confusing "longer wait times" with "shorter time before the community at large becomes too splintered to find any matches at all". Plus, you're forgetting that a time limit will be applied to any and all public matchmaking to prevent stalling or non-present players. Even in stock matches, I can guarantee there will be a time limit. (Which is fine, since standard tournament rules set a time limit too.)

Honestly it just seems like you're being needlessly indignant. I'm not sure why or what it's helping.
 

Calibrate

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
131
I'm... confused. I wasn't commenting on how you type at all. And how did we jump to bowing?

I'm still not sure that you understand the issue. On one hand, you're jumping to conclusions that haven't yet been proven. On the other, you're confusing "longer wait times" with "shorter time before the community at large becomes too splintered to find any matches at all". Plus, you're forgetting that a time limit will be applied to any and all public matchmaking to prevent stalling or non-present players. Even in stock matches, I can guarantee there will be a time limit. (Which is fine, since standard tournament rules set a time limit too.)

Honestly it just seems like you're being needlessly indignant. I'm not sure why or what it's helping.
1) "On one hand, you're jumping to conclusions that haven't yet been proven." That's exactly what you do. Remember how you typed "The games with fewer levels of custom matchmaking have longer lifespans, far as online communities." I still wonder where you get that from.

In fact, it feels like it's the opposite. Having boring matchmaking surely kills off a community faster than having plenty of options/specific queues.

2) I know there has to be a time limit, but it should be set to 20 minutes or higher if the player queues up for Stock Mode.

3) I'm not being indignant, I'm just replying. When you type **** like "Dial the rhetoric down a notch.", I'll obviously tell you to stop complaining how I type. Regarding your lie of a comment;

"I wasn't commenting on how you type at all."
 

staindgrey

I have a YouTube channel.
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
11,489
Location
The 90's
NNID
staindgrey
3DS FC
0130-1865-3216
Switch FC
SW 1248 1677 4696
1) "On one hand, you're jumping to conclusions that haven't yet been proven." That's exactly what you do. Remember how you typed "The games with fewer levels of custom matchmaking have longer lifespans, far as online communities." I still wonder where you get that from.

In fact, it feels like it's the opposite. Having boring matchmaking surely kills off a community faster than having plenty of options/specific queues.

2) I know there has to be a time limit, but it should be set to 20 minutes or higher if the player queues up for Stock Mode.

3) I'm not being indignant, I'm just replying. When you type **** like "Dial the rhetoric down a notch.", I'll obviously tell you to stop complaining how I type. Regarding your lie of a comment;

"I wasn't commenting on how you type at all."
"How you type" and "what you're trying to say" are two completely different things. The way you worded that, I assumed you were talking about your typing skills, which I never addressed. Your overall rhetoric, though, does negatively impact what you're trying to say, whether or not you actually realize it. Hence my rather blunt suggestion to dial it down. I admit that the way I said it was mean-spirited, but that doesn't relieve you of the fault itself. "Your lie of a comment". Classy~

If you need examples of matchmaking hindering or bolstering a community, I'll gladly point you toward the Gears of War series versus Mass Effect 3. Gears of War 2 had multiple playlists sectioned off by game type (Warzone/Execution, Wingman, Guardian/Submission and Annex/King of the Hill) and then further by Map Packs (there were four choices, I believe, plus what came standard in the game). It was sectioned off by so many playlists that the only ones that ever seemed populated were Execution and Guardian. If you wanted to play on DLC maps, tough luck. As a result, the developers later chose to condense all of these playlists into a fraction of their previous choices, limiting it to simply Ranked and Player varieties, with any DLC only available in Ranked. Then, even as the community got smaller, you could still find a match more easily than when it was a top 5 populated game on XBL.

Same thing happened with Gears 3-- they had so many modes available that eventually everybody stopped playing the least popular ones, and everybody switched to Team Death Match. I'm an Execution fan, myself, but I stopped even trying to play it because no one was ever in there. My friends, also Execution fans, switched to TDM or stopped playing altogether because they were tired of playing bots. GOW:Judgment was even worse because even fewer played that game to begin with, but there were just as many choices.

Then there's Mass Effect 3. Not nearly as many people play this game's multiplayer as Gears, and yet even two and a half years post-release, I can find a match within seconds. That's because matchmaking gives you four overall options which are based on difficulty: Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum. You can further narrow down if you want, but that's all you have to choose. No DLC playlists, no custom ruleset versus standard ruleset, nothing. I can even find matches quickly on the Wii U version, and barely 100,000 people have ever even purchased it!

Since I'm thinking more about this now, there's also Resident Evil 5 & 6, both of which sectioned off their modes without any option of combining matchmaking so you could get a larger amount of people. Guess what happened? Everybody played one mode because that's all you can find partners for, then got bored and quit. Mercenaries Reunion never took off because nobody was in the freaking matchmaking, which was sectioned off from regular Mercenaries (despite them being virtually the same thing). But you know why it's so easy to get a Mario Kart match regardless of which version you're playing or how old it is? Because there are, like, two options. Either choice gives you half of the current online population. Again, that's basic math at work. More choices, less chance that choice is the same choice someone else chose.

Any fighting game out there that I can think of has very basic matchmaking options: Ranked, Player and a couple other modes pretty much specifically for parties of multiple friends. "For Fun" is Player, "For Glory" is Ranked, and a private match itself is made for parties of friends. Adding too many customization options past that setup will shrink the available community for matchmaking. It's derivative. It's math. It's not complicated, and it's supported by evidence from other popular games.

Oh, and as for the 20min suggestion... do you want to sit through a 20min. stock match?
 
Last edited:

Violenceman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
381
NNID
Ash316
Something I have been wondering about, and maybe someone with a greater working knowledge of online gaming can help.

I always assumed that Time was chosen as default over Stock for online games because of the idea that it would allow everyone involved to play the whole time and not have to sit out for half the match watching other people play (a problem with doing stock for 3 or 4 player matches). But that got me thinking that maybe this was also for stability reasons; If you are play a 4 stock match with four people and player 4 gets knocked out before anyone else loses a stock, what are the chances that player 4 will stick around and watch the match? Maybe there is a higher chance when playing with friends, but in the With Anyone games, I am guessing many players would just drop out of the match to go play a new game quicker.

Now I know that internet gaming has evolved quite a bit over the years, but I am guessing that having a player disconnect and drop out can still affect performance and stability for everyone else still in the match, even if it is on a minute level. Is that a potential problem with online Stock matches and maybe the reason for favoring Time matches?
 

LancerStaff

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
8,118
Location
Buried under 990+ weapons
3DS FC
1504-5709-4054
Something I have been wondering about, and maybe someone with a greater working knowledge of online gaming can help.

I always assumed that Time was chosen as default over Stock for online games because of the idea that it would allow everyone involved to play the whole time and not have to sit out for half the match watching other people play (a problem with doing stock for 3 or 4 player matches). But that got me thinking that maybe this was also for stability reasons; If you are play a 4 stock match with four people and player 4 gets knocked out before anyone else loses a stock, what are the chances that player 4 will stick around and watch the match? Maybe there is a higher chance when playing with friends, but in the With Anyone games, I am guessing many players would just drop out of the match to go play a new game quicker.

Now I know that internet gaming has evolved quite a bit over the years, but I am guessing that having a player disconnect and drop out can still affect performance and stability for everyone else still in the match, even if it is on a minute level. Is that a potential problem with online Stock matches and maybe the reason for favoring Time matches?
I don't have a ton of knowledge on this, but I remember people DCing in Brawl would often cause a lag spike. I could usually tell because the CPUs that replaced them almost always have different playstyles.
 

IsmaR

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
19,484
Location
Ooromine IV, the second planet from the sun FS-176
NNID
Super_Sand_Lezbo
3DS FC
3179-6068-0031
Switch FC
SW-7639-0141-7804
Look, I'm all for arguing. I love it. But when you type that much **** in yellow colour.. wow.

Make bullet points so I can respond. TL;DR style.
Y'know, if you're not even gonna bother reading his post, you should probably just not reply.

And you can turn off custom font colors in your profile options.
 

staindgrey

I have a YouTube channel.
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
11,489
Location
The 90's
NNID
staindgrey
3DS FC
0130-1865-3216
Switch FC
SW 1248 1677 4696
Look, I'm all for arguing. I love it. But when you type that much **** in yellow colour.. wow.

Make bullet points so I can respond. TL;DR style.
You asked for examples, and I gave you in-depth examples. They're separated into paragraphs indicating separate points. That's how reading works. It's not really my concern whether or not you wish to read and respond to it; I was simply obliging your request.

Also, I wasn't aware that you were allergic to the color yellow. I apologize.
 

staindgrey

I have a YouTube channel.
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
11,489
Location
The 90's
NNID
staindgrey
3DS FC
0130-1865-3216
Switch FC
SW 1248 1677 4696
Wait, does that mean he's a Green Lantern Corp member?
I am SO glad somebody made the reference. I actually just finished reading All-Star Batman & Robin, where they paint themselves and the whole room yellow at their safe house so Hal Jordan can't do crap. Just seeing an all-gold Batman offer him lemonade with a smart*** smirk on his face made my day.
 

DrRiceBoy

Smash Lord
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
1,167
Location
California
NNID
ricesenpai
3DS FC
4699-6411-5910
It kinda seems like Nintendo is trying to cater For Glory mode towards slightly more competitive players, so I'm assuming we would get something similar to the rules we currently have. Something close to 4 stock 8 minutes.

I honestly have no idea what the stock/time for For Fun mode might be.
 
Top Bottom