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How to not get gimped

waldorf2007

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I've been playing bowser jr. for a while, and I get gimped a lot, even when I mix up my recovery. People have directed me to videos of tweek and other notable B jrs in the early stages of this game....and they get gimped a lot in the videos as well. At least once per set in a 2 stock set, often one stock per game

Sonic, dropping an up B
Mario, jumping and using a simple nair, or a falling nair.
Fludd, of course.
Dropped projectiles from anyone.

How do you guys deal with this? recovering high doesn't always work out so well, and being forced to recover low is dangerous as hell to any falling aerial.

Edit: I forgot maybe the most common one in my particualr case: megaman's leaves. I often play with a megaman main, and all he does is jump out with leaves and fall at me. Won't gimp me high but will force a low recovery, and it trades with BJ's hammer. the glancing leaf blow is super annoying and just kills my recovery like a nasty footstool.
 
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Regulus

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Well the great thing about bowser jr is that he can mix up his recovery enough to be unpredictable. Make use of your spinout and save your jumps. If worst comes to worse, you can always almost immediately air dodge after an upb.
 

Sonnet

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Side B jump reset is love, side B jump reset is life.
Can't stress this enough.
I find recovering high the most effective, because even if you don't have a jump, you get another one out of a side B jump reset. Basically, you have three jumps.
If you mix up your recovery enough by using this extra jump every now and then, you can usually recover just fine. If they read the jump, you can usually air dodge directly out of it, and you still make it back to the stage.

And after all of that, you can still recover low by taking advantage of the angle of some stages- they can't gimp you when you're riding the angle of the stage.
 

Abyssal Lagiacrus

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Lots of good things being said here already.

Recovering high is a very good way to go, but of course don't do it all the time due to making yourself predictable.

I've found that recovering very low is also an effective way to mix things up. If I plan on recovering low, when I activate my side-special and start zooming towards the stage, my opponent will usually think I'm aiming for a high recovery, but that is trumped by the fact that I keep on zooming. (Note that if you stay in your side-special for too long, you will automatically spin out.) I then use the jump cancel actually near the bottom of the stage and then either quickly or draw out using my up-special depending on what the opponent is doing. Dragging out using the up-special can be good for avoiding those projectile gimps.
 

Metalex

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Something i noticed today is that you can use the spinout of your Side B and still have the second jump and the ability to use the side B jump left.

So you can go side B spinout > second jump > side B jump > Up B
or Second jump > side B spinout > side B jump > Up B for example.

It makes you cover a much bigger distance horizontally so it's quite a useful way to mix up the recovery imo!

(Sorry if this is already well known among Bowser Jr mains but i recently got an interest in playing the character so i haven't been on this board much yet :) )
 
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Abyssal Lagiacrus

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Something I noticed today is that you can use the spinout of your Side B once and still have the second jump and the ability to use the side B jump left.

So you can go side B spinout > second jump > side B jump > Up B
or Second jump > side B spinout > side B jump > Up B for example.

It makes you cover a much bigger distance horizontally so it's quite a useful way to mix up the recovery imo!

(Sorry if this is already well known among Bowser Jr mains but i recently got an interest in starting to play the character and haven't been on this board much yet :p )
That's actually very interesting and good to know, I myself have never spun out in the air while trying to recover because I was too scared of it screwing me over. I'll have to start incorporating this.
 
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waldorf2007

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THat is super cool. In a for glory I spun out 4 times in a row going back and forth until I hit the bottom of the stage, and then double jumped and side B jumped to up B to get back.

I had never tried it for the same reasons as Lagiacrus above me.

I'm going to experiment with the super risky spinning out off stage to thwart recoveries. Now that I have less fear of getting back at all, I'm totally game to spin out off stage for a strong hit.
 

Metalex

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@ waldorf2007 waldorf2007 Yeah that's really fun to do, I have experimented a lot with it today and i think it’s actually really good for gimping in some situations as the knockback of the spinout is strong and it has good priority. It can KO some characters pretty early used offstage.

Jumping from the stage you can use your second jump and use 2 spinouts away from the stage and still be able to make it back to the edge with Side B jump and Up B.

I also noticed that you can easily travel under almost all omega/floating platform stages to the other side by doing spinout > spinout > second jump > side B jump > Up B. Not really that useful but it looks cool :p
 
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Duck SMASH!

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You can air dodge while using abandon ship. Don't ever forget this.
Good timing will keep you from getting gimped by Pit's arrows, Sheik's ANYTHING, Fox's Nair, etc.
But of course, if you're about to snap to the ledge don't do this (or attack) or you'll miss it and die.
 

gByron

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Peach turnips kill any bowser jr :/ she can throw them diagonally or just downwards from anywhere
 
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punkonjunk

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How has no one mentioned this yet?

If you air-dodge after being struck, you get your cart back!
IE: Bowser jr is planning a mid recovery because that's all he has, you used up your cart already, the stage is gigantic, shut up.Peach tosses out a goddamn veggie and hits you mid-jump, costing you the jump and you fall. IMMEDIATELY, dodge and up-B, and it will succeed - instead of dodging, your bucket magically reappears. Sometimes you can't spin out again, but you can up-B again.

I don't know why this happens but when I figured it out my koopa kid game changed completely - if you start to anticipate the gimps, you can instantly undo them and use the opponents stun time to hammer their faces in half.
 
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krazyzyko

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How has no one mentioned this yet?

If you air-dodge after being struck, you get your cart back!
IE: Bowser jr is planning a mid recovery because that's all he has, you used up your cart already, the stage is gigantic, shut up.Peach tosses out a goddamn veggie and hits you mid-jump, costing you the jump and you fall. IMMEDIATELY, dodge and up-B, and it will succeed - instead of dodging, your bucket magically reappears. Sometimes you can't spin out again, but you can up-B again.

I don't know why this happens but when I figured it out my koopa kid game changed completely - if you start to anticipate the gimps, you can instantly undo them and use the opponents stun time to hammer their faces in half.
You mean that if you air dodge instead of hammer after getting hit softly during up b, you'll get your kart back?
 

punkonjunk

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You mean that if you air dodge instead of hammer after getting hit softly during up b, you'll get your kart back?
it seems to work after any hit as soon as you'd normally be able to input a dodge.
 

Splooshi Splashy

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I just want to note that there are some weak strikes that even pressing the airdodge button will NOT let you regain the Car from, like Fox's Jab or Peach's normal Turnips (I think) or possibly Duck Hunt's sourspot NAir (not tested yet... *Headtilts in shame over having to admit this*).

Aside from such strikes, that technique will generally work against strong hits like Smashes and most aerials, tilts, and Specials, which will certainly help in holding on to your stocks (and shocking opponents who thought you were done). I personally like mentally declaring in a serious manner that "I'm not done!" whenever I do this. >:) It also annoys me seeing Jrs not do this, even when it's me fighting other Jrs (who seem to have been on the rise since :4feroy: came out.... and it's usually :4roy: I see from those players as well.... XD).
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Plenty said here already. I prefer to recover low as Up B is very good for it overall anyway, and making it back has many options, like many mentioned above. Didn't though now that Spinout can also be used to extend your jump! That's just too much! :4lemmy:

On trying to recover when hit out of a Clown Car during ejection, you gotta ensure you're still in hitstun while also being sent far away for some moment. Usually around then you'll get your Clown Car back. It doesn't work well on attacks that keep you in hitstun just a lil' bit (forcing you to use a hammer instead). So best to use it when you're getting wrecked on instead.
 

divade

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I'm going to try and clarify without looking for fact sources (I'm sure they are around)
After ejection, you can be hit by two types of moves. One is heavier and will allow you to input any button to give your kart back at your soonest actionable frame, (as if you got hit before ejecting so you'd have the same amount of jumps) . The other is the weak hits like mega man's leaves, Pikachu's thunderbolt and weak nairs, that don't have enough knock back to send you flying. This is where we are helplessly gimped.
 

divade

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We should probably figure out if it's KB or Damage dependent, the we can know "oh hey, none of samus' ariels aregoing to leave me helpless, i just have to watch out for her d-tilt" situations. not that we can know every characters moves.
 

Mr Moosebones

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We should probably figure out if it's KB or Damage dependent, the we can know "oh hey, none of samus' ariels aregoing to leave me helpless, i just have to watch out for her d-tilt" situations. not that we can know every characters moves.
It's kb dependent afaik. Sonic dropping a spring at mid/high %s will give you the cart back but not if you're hit at like, 20%.
 

divade

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Okay so at higher percents we actually worry less.
This should be important in influencing if we should go offstage to gimp someone.
 

Mr Moosebones

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Yeah always best to just act the way you would if you can get your cart back. If they throw their body in from of you to intercept with weak nair or something, sometimes its best to try and just get tit for tat with a up b hammer stagespike trade though.
 
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Mr Moosebones

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BJr's recovery vs characters with good gimping tools is one of the reasons I'm getting frustrated with him. I put about 6 months of serious lab time in with him, helped develop a lot of the (useless) mechakoopa tech and meta therein but I'm feeling like I'm at the ceiling with him. Vicegrip and Tweek place better with him than I do (though toronto and socal are pretty close skill wise when you talk about the top 5 players in the region imo) so I'm not saying its not possible to do well. But Im not particularly gifted at this game, i just put in a ton of time in the lab and into optimizing play. At the skill level I'm at playing a character with the flaws bjr has in things like gimpability is only holding me back. I still practice him but I probably won't seriously come back to him until I'm way better at the game.
 
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HerpFish

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I usually recover pretty low, often barely grabbing the ledge, but a nice option is to cart to the stage and use the spinout to land. Takes some players by surprise and has taken many a stock from the opponent. If you are hit out of it, you can use side-b again because you used the spinout instead of jumping out of side-b.

You can even try recovering high and dropping a mechakoopa, but this is generally very risky, especially if they end of grabbing the mechakoopa as well as hitting you.

To avoid Sonic's spring, jump out of side-b and retreat a little bit so that you stay in place to let the spring drop past you and then use up-b. You can even get a hammer hit out of it.

For Peach, recovering higher than usual often works. The bottom of the clown cart during side-b can destroy the turnips if done correctly, but her fair will become a problem if you do this too much.

Just some thoughts on some risk/reward recoveries.
 

platomaker

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Previous comment was deleted at the behest of another member. I will continue lurking instead. please ignore this comment and the other one I made in this thread.
 
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punkonjunk

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it doesn't work after at least one of peaches veggies. I don't know what one.
It infuriates me. I was sliding into duckhunt dog until I figured this out.... I am so goddamn into bowser jr again. Poor duckhunt dog.

On the recovery thing.... Recover with the kart, hop out of cart, drop a mechakoopa, fast fall a tiny bit, abandon ship and loop around to the back of the foe's dodge or spot dodge and hammer them out. it works.... once, but after you do it, they get really itchy at the edges and it's MUCH easier to get back. If i play the same guy on fg for an hour he still continues to underestimate the hammer and mis-time the dodge.
I've found very little issue actually recovering with bowser jr besides the occasional gimp. Overall, I feel like he's deceptively heavier than he seems.... as long as you don't accidentally get punished out of kart.
 

krazyzyko

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Needles are the most notable.


Speaking of... https://youtu.be/R2M-Ve2ch_4

(I'm the Morton player, they didn't update the scores/names immediately)
GGs. Lol hate it when that happens. I usually avoid gimps by recovering below the edge but not too low where l can't afford to air dodge when needed so I can sweet spot or air dodge into the stage and maybe hammer before landing.

I read you were giving up on Jr as a main. I'll give you some tips that might help your game.

-Work on your movement and deception.
Shield stops, PP, RAR, stage hump, fox trot, DD, trot dance, shield drops, edge cancels, wave bounce, spinouts, jump OoS, empty bairs, side B cancels, SH air dodge > nair/dair/kart, aerial spinout slides, etc. Mixing up these techs will keep your opponent guessing.
Try to bait out stuff and threaten your opponent by taking space without really compromising as much.
I noticed that your movement is too stiff and predictable, frankly. When you wanted to attack, you just literally ran up to him and attacked. Fortunately, your opponent didn't catch on; But kart dashing from across the stage and fairing to the ground is usually pretty risky. Also when your opponent was out of reach, usually falling from above you just stood there waiting for him to return. That makes it easier for them to come back without being punished.

-Mix up your projectile deployment.
Dropping MK from the ground is very punishable by Bowser. He runs real quick and he can easily dash attack, catch MK and attack you with it quite efficiently. Again, your opp didn't really know how to deal with it but unconsciously conditioned you to use the MK like that leaving yourself wide open.
An occasional cannon ball might intercept with your opponents running because he would be expecting to catch an MK. B cancel on the edge if you see him running towards to edgeguard u.
Bowsers dair has super armor and it breaks sheilds so I usually punish it with up B > air dodge from below him or get out of the way and side B > dair/uair juggles or up B hammer.

-Punish landing with side B.
It's the most efficient way to punish a tricky opponent's landing instead of going for a smash hard read which can whiff.

-Use your tilts, bruh.
They're so good use them when your in doubt that your smash might take too long and you need a quick disjointed hitbox.

- Back throw > all. There's no guaranteed follow up after any of the throws so you might as well use the strongest throw possible which causes 12% dmg + pummels. (Unless you want to F throw for an edge guard situation or up throw to KO on DH top platform or w/e)

- Boxing like a boss.
Sheild poke with jab > lick > jab > lick...
Or jab > crouch cancel > jab > cc...
Jab > boost grab > back throw.
If you land a jab and your opponent didn't smash DI away or up, hold the A button and Jr will do the best option (1, 2 or gomu gomu no GATLING!!!)
As soon as u r stuck on the jab combo animation, let go of the A button and he'll end it before opp can SDI out (hopefully).

- instant dash attack FTW. (:GCR:> :GCCD:)
Especially vs titans like bowser, dair > DA > fair is a pretty simple and effective combo.

- Patience is a virtue.
You don't always need to rush down (especially if you have the lead)
Jr has a plethora of tools and disjoints to punish and make opp run into them so take your time. Wall your opp out with SH AC fair > lick or SH AC bair > ftilt. FH > MK so they run into the bouncing MK. PP d smash or fox trot > f smash or JC up smash for some meaty punishes.

-Embrace your weaknesses.
Jr can't protect himself very well when opp is below. Spinout out of the way and regroup at the edge. (Don't be like tweek who gets juggled if he's not juggling)
Jr's grab sucks. Abuse your sheild poking moves. Use boost and pivot grabs.
He can't run fast enough to punish opp across the stage. Use turbo dash.
Morton and Wendy are hideous.
Use Larry:4larry:

I hope this helps and that u stick with Jr at least as a pocket secondary.
 
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Mr Moosebones

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Literally no offense meant here. But I had had about 7 beers by the time that set was played, that was a few months ago, and I was just sandbagging in bracket. There's no way to put this without sounding like an asshole so I'm sorry, but I don't really need the advice.

EDIT: a lot of the stuff you mentioned is actually not optimal. Dair into dash attack isn't as good as dair into fair unless fair is stale.
 
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krazyzyko

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Literally no offense meant here. But I had had about 7 beers by the time that set was played, that was a few months ago, and I was just sandbagging in bracket. There's no way to put this without sounding like an ******* so I'm sorry, but I don't really need the advice.

EDIT: a lot of the stuff you mentioned is actually not optimal. Dair into dash attack isn't as good as dair into fair unless fair is stale.
Lol okay...
vs bowser its possible to squeeze a DA between the dair and fair for more dmg. Vs smaller characters the DA wouldn't work as well.
 

divade

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Oh jeez, didn't notice you were waiting for the explosion, but being one hit from a zero death on the first stock is pretty sweet too.
 
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