How to not auto-lose to Samus?

[warriorman222]

Firstly, I have beaten 10/97 Smauses total, all of which were idiots. Including the oens i lsot to. Samus is essenstially my hard counter. If I fight her, all my efffort is about as useful as Jolt Haymakering offstage.

Firstly, what is her worst MU? My mains change constantly, right now I'm using WFT, Falco, Shiek and Dr.Mario. I'm all up for maining someone else to counterpick.

 

[KayJay]

You allready have a Counter Pick with Falco. Learn how to use Falco efficiently. Make the middle area yours. Don't approach consistantly, make them approach you. Learn jab cancel to grab/dtilt/utilt and reflect every missile/bomb.

 

[RoachCake]

Firstly, what is her worst MU?

Same as everyone else, Diddy Kong.

 

[warriorman222]

You allready have a Counter Pick with Falco. Learn how to use Falco efficiently. Make the middle area yours. Don't approach consistantly, make them approach you. Learn jab cancel to grab/dtilt/utilt and reflect every missile/bomb.

Done, Done, and done. The problem is, I use the gamepad and and as a result, 90% of my deaths vs Samus are doing Phantasm instead of Relfector, Smash 3DS syndrome is coming back (trying to vector, live at high percents, roll spam due to worse players... I never should have bought that game). The others are simply from my uair being outprioritized by a spike, or the occasional surprise fsmash/Charge Shot.

If I got a Gamecube controller Samus would be less of an issue.

 

[KayJay]

Samus is literally a piece of cake for an abusive Falco. Falco is my second main, you don't have to search for another counter pick. You have to search for a Gamecube Controller to fix your input issues.

 

[warriorman222]

Samus is literally a piece of cake for an abusive Falco. Falco is my second main, you don't have to search for another counter pick. You have to search for a Gamecube Controller to fix your input issues.

Yeah, adapters are nonexistent in Edmonton, but of course, plentiful in Calgary, the nearest big city, but I can;t go there because reasons. What's the next best controller?

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Yeah, adapters are nonexistent in Edmonton, but of course, plentiful in Calgary, the nearest big city, but I can;t go there because reasons. What's the next best controller?

You could get a PDP or Hori battlepad, both are officially licensed products by Nintendo so they generally work pretty well, so if you don't mind having to dongle a controller out a Wiimote those are the best options. However, as I do own one of either, I would suggest the Hori over the PDP. The build quality is a bit better and the triggers are short throws unlike the PDP which tries to emulate the feel of the GCN by having an "analog" squish before the button actually activates but since Sm4sh has no light shielding all it does is hamper your input speed. The singular thing I think the PDP has over the Hori is the second analog stick has a full thumpad to it instead of the nub the Hori uses in an attempt to emulate the GCN's c-stick.

 

[Fluidityt]

Firstly, I have beaten 10/97 Smauses total, all of which were idiots. Including the oens i lsot to. Samus is essenstially my hard counter. If I fight her, all my efffort is about as useful as Jolt Haymakering offstage.

Firstly, what is her worst MU? My mains change constantly, right now I'm using WFT, Falco, Shiek and Dr.Mario. I'm all up for maining someone else to counterpick.

I have issues with all of your characters. It just depends on who's playing them! 2/4 of your chars have reflectors -- aka, immediate counter. For your other two, try shielding? There are a lot of different ways to play samus, but its pretty good rule of thumb to not let her get her charge shot. If you can avoid her projectiles then your other chars will beat her in frame advantage / priority for melee + aerials.

I think you might just have this one "thing" that is probably a reflex or psychological. She isn't that awful of a matchup. Granted, I hate fighting Samus (dat charge shot!) but obviously a good sheik will roll over top of her all day. I used to have big issues with Dr Mario and Falco. Now they are less of a problem. Regular mario and fox still give headaches though.

 

[warriorman222]

I have issues with all of your characters. It just depends on who's playing them! 2/4 of your chars have reflectors -- aka, immediate counter. For your other two, try shielding? There are a lot of different ways to play samus, but its pretty good rule of thumb to not let her get her charge shot. If you can avoid her projectiles then your other chars will beat her in frame advantage / priority for melee + aerials.

I think you might just have this one "thing" that is probably a reflex or psychological. She isn't that awful of a matchup. Granted, I hate fighting Samus (dat charge shot!) but obviously a good sheik will roll over top of her all day. I used to have big issues with Dr Mario and Falco. Now they are less of a problem. Regular mario and fox still give headaches though.

As for the reflex issue, I myself had very minor finger problems from birth that made them hurt when I tap things too fast. Meaning I can't (can, but really shouldn't) mash out of grabs. And samus has a tether. And so does every other projectile spammer. Just great.

Another big problem is Gamepad. I use that and Input issues are always a problem (Shooting a charge Shot? Let's reflect tha-Falco Phantasm. The winner is... Samus! FUUUUUU). I've been looking for a GB Adapter, but those don't exist anymore, like I have the money for it anyways.

 

[Fluidityt]

As for the reflex issue, I myself had very minor finger problems from birth that made them hurt when I tap things too fast. Meaning I can't (can, but really shouldn't) mash out of grabs. And samus has a tether. And so does every other projectile spammer. Just great.

Another big problem is Gamepad. I use that and Input issues are always a problem (Shooting a charge Shot? Let's reflect tha-Falco Phantasm. The winner is... Samus! FUUUUUU). I've been looking for a GB Adapter, but those don't exist anymore, like I have the money for it anyways.

I have the Horii battle pad gamecube controller that plugs into the wiimote. Its about 20$. However, I switched back to the gamepad. I found the shoulder buttons far too stiff compared to the gamepads (even after I broke it in by mashing them for hours).

I use L for shield and R for grab so. I really haven't had any problems with the gamepad. I miss the C stick but have overcome that. I'm starting to think you may be having internet lag issues, or are mistiming your commands. For online, you sort of have to "preload" the commands--what you do wont be registered for typically 25-100ms. So if you see something coming, dont try to time it perfectly. This goes for shielding too.

Its hard to time because they dont show ping on the matches. Sometimes you get a good connection and can press the button right as a projectile hits, sometimes you have to mash it slightly before. Try inputting your shields and reflects slightly sooner.

Samus isn't really that great at spamming. The heavy missiles can only come out one at a time, and the homing issiles really only do a 3-4% dmg. If you get someone who is spamming, just counterspam! All your characters can spam back, especially falco. Sheik is a god at messing up chargeshot because its so fast with your knives.


Also, you may try to look for a turbo controller to compensate for your finger issue.

Hope this helps.

 

[leiraD]

Dude, sammy has so many matchup problems. Falco and Doc should do it for you. Personally, Mario and Ness give me the most problems. Heck, even a good g&w can be problematic. That being said, I don't think that "hard counters" are as prevalent in sm4sh as in other ssb games, so superior play should be able to get you that W. Work on approaching while powershielding or through the air to push through or avoid the projectiles that dominate the ground. Trying to roll through stuff doesn't work well against a decent samus because she can so easily punish with a charge shot. With falco, you can try baiting out grabs from samus by approaching and then rolling backwards. A wiffed grab is very punishable, but be ready to reflect a missile or charge shot if the samus chooses that option instead. You should be able to get some wins in no time.

 

[warriorman222]

I have the Horii battle pad gamecube controller that plugs into the wiimote. Its about 20$. However, I switched back to the gamepad. I found the shoulder buttons far too stiff compared to the gamepads (even after I broke it in by mashing them for hours).

I use L for shield and R for grab so. I really haven't had any problems with the gamepad. I miss the C stick but have overcome that. I'm starting to think you may be having internet lag issues, or are mistiming your commands. For online, you sort of have to "preload" the commands--what you do wont be registered for typically 25-100ms. So if you see something coming, dont try to time it perfectly. This goes for shielding too.

Its hard to time because they dont show ping on the matches. Sometimes you get a good connection and can press the button right as a projectile hits, sometimes you have to mash it slightly before. Try inputting your shields and reflects slightly sooner.

Samus isn't really that great at spamming. The heavy missiles can only come out one at a time, and the homing issiles really only do a 3-4% dmg. If you get someone who is spamming, just counterspam! All your characters can spam back, especially falco. Sheik is a god at messing up chargeshot because its so fast with your knives.


Also, you may try to look for a turbo controller to compensate for your finger issue.

Hope this helps.

It does help, thanks!

 

[BlackCephie]

Honesty, I wouldnt approach the problem with a "whats her worse matchup?" mentality. I have literally no problems fighting the likes of falco, doc, or shiek, mainly because I made it a point to learn those matchups and what to take advantage of/what not to do. For example, having a reflector by no means insures that your match will be easier since, against a good Samus you will get baited and grabbed or punished in some other way. My hardest matchup currently is a good Rosalina which is mainly due to her hitboxes, and not at all due to the fact that Luma blocks projectiles, which is what most people reference as far as why that MU is hard for Samus.

The thing is that when you fight a good Samus, you are really fighting a wild card with an amazing projectile (cs), but also a killer dropzone game, since she can be played many different ways. Moreover, if someone IS in fact a good Samus player they are likely to be similar to someone training with weights on only to take them off when presented with a challenge. She has a lot of weaknesses that CAN be overcome but you have to know her inside and out to overcome them resulting in a much higher skill curve than, say, diddy kong. The best thing is to be adaptable in the heat of battle and dont underestimate her.

 

[aesahaettr]

I think Samus has huge weakness in her speed. If you are quick enough yourself (ie. your reflexes and your character's speed) you can punish her slow rolls. You can also wait out a return to the stage if you keep cool under the hail of bombs. Otherwise, you are never safe from the charged shot so always expect it. Lately, I've been baiting people with u-tilt at max range. If it hits, great. If it doesn't hit, people will rush in and eat a charged shot before they can reach me.

I feel countered hard by Falco. He fights better, reflects very safely, and can harass at a distance with stun. He might be impossible to safely approach. The reflector is perfect for stopping any missile/grab mix-ups. He can just shield grab a dash attack or aerial and call it a day.

Being too loose with the reflector is a way to die even though it counters a lot of what Samus can do. The last Falco I fought thought he was very clever, reflecting homing missiles while standing on the other edge of the map. After the 5th missile, I followed up with a perfectly timed charged shot and sent him home. If you give Samus breathing room, you'll regret it.

 

[Kodachi]

Ugh... just got my ass handed to me by not 1, but 2 samus players back to back... straight massacre like I haven't witnessed yet. I never really played samus in the previous games and this thread doesn't offer much help... so I guess I gotta play the girl for a bit to see how she works. What really is killing me is I aggro too much and get shielded/grabbed while she is charging. Jumping over her works somewhat, attacking from behind but she can still forward smash me out of shield.

Any tips on getting past the charging shielding grabbing zoners?

 

[Afro Smash]

If they're grab happy run in to bait them then roll back/spot dodge, if you approach from the air and they're constantly shielding, you can just fastfall land and go for a grab and since all her projectiles have punishable end endlag, powershielding and rushing her down can be effective too

Or just switch to a reflector character and avoid all these shenanigans :^]

 

[Xygonn]

Ugh... just got my *** handed to me by not 1, but 2 samus players back to back... straight massacre like I haven't witnessed yet. I never really played samus in the previous games and this thread doesn't offer much help... so I guess I gotta play the girl for a bit to see how she works. What really is killing me is I aggro too much and get shielded/grabbed while she is charging. Jumping over her works somewhat, attacking from behind but she can still forward smash me out of shield.

Any tips on getting past the charging shielding grabbing zoners?

You have to keep the pressure on Samus constantly if you want to win. Try to bait a grab by jumping in like you are going to attack shield then jump a second time. If you time your aerial nair with mario or link (maybe a few others) I think the jabs beats samus's throw out if she doesn't get a hard shield on you. This can be mixed up with a nair-grab if the samus keeps the shield up for the jabs. Be very wary of a good samus coming up off the ledge. If you wait in the typically safe spot just out of range of an attack recovery samus can ledge drop->jump->zair and hit you to recover. She can drop->jump->CS too. So it's best to just stay back a good distance and rush in once she is committed to being on the stage with you.

 

[Pretty Princess]

I feel you OP. Samus is basically a hard counter against me, too.

Even with Rosa's Down-B and Luma meatshield, I still get bodied by good Samus players since they know how to bait the Down-B and to knock Luma away. My Peach is nearly helpless against them, since they force her to approach, and a lot of her approach options result in eating a charge shot.

I'm finding that pressure is the best way to combat this character, but it's so hard to do with my mains without getting punished. Halp.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I'm having trouble power shielding Samus' projectiles regardless whether lag's involved. Thus I am forced to play even more defensively which costs me stage control and results in even more missiles and charge shots.
I also struggle spot dodging her grapple beam. This applies in general, even offline.
I've also faced better samuses (not FG scrubs) who were great at juggling with aerials... and when I tried to air dodge they read it and I got screw attacked to death instead.
And Zair is a pain in the ass.

Part of this was psychological in feeling relatively powerless against a strong samus player, especially not having an answer to the projectile spam and getting punished constantly for approaching. But you have to approach her and pressure, as @ Xygonn mentioned...