How to Deke the Sheik?

[VegiLohrd]

I must know. This is arguably the worst matchup Ganon has. What should I do/expect/prepare for? And how much lube should I bring if that match doesn't go my way?

 

[Renth]

wtf is deke.

 

[Superspright]

Clearly it means to take a poop on her.

 

[VegiLohrd]

wtf is deke.

deke
/dēk/
Ice Hockey
noun
noun: deke; plural noun: dekes
1.
a deceptive movement or feint that induces an opponent to move out of position.
verb
verb: deke; 3rd person present: dekes; past tense: deked; past participle: deked; gerund or present participle: deking
1.
draw (a player) out of position by performing a deke.

I really mean beat a sheik, but I could NOT resist the ryme.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

melee =/= ice hockey

cc ****. don't grab when she's crouching. dair kills at about 100 on most non-gigantic stages. learn to properly edgeguard sheik and watch videos of good ganondorfs vs good sheiks.

 

[-ACE-]

Learn your edgeguarding and punishes and stay consistent. Chaingrab and play safe.

 

[BTmoney]

understand that you won't beat a sheik player if you are equally competent lol

 

[X WaNtEd X]

if they don't know the matchup you have a shot

 

[-ACE-]

Seriously, learn the MF'ing chaingrab. Make every grab you get mean sheik is in huge trouble. Learn how to properly end the chaingrab on different stages for maximum damage (knowing at what percents platforms come into play and what techchases to go for). It will make the sheik player fear you more and play differently.

Learn how to edgeguard sheik. Know her up-B and don't get hit by it when you're forcing her to land on stage. Then bair her back off to reset the situation, or stomp her if she's at kill percent.

You have to play patiently in a sense that you must wait for the big opportunities (less high risk reads) but be close enough pressuring her that you can punish most simple mistakes she makes.

It's all about being consistent. Don't drop edgeguards/chaingrabs/easy combos.... do whatever you can to take the stock, because as soon as she's got control again, it's SLAP SLAP DEAD.

 

[Triforce of Love]

Would it be a good idea to try to pick up a secondary main to counter sheiks and such? If so what characters do you think would be easy to transfer your ganon skills/style into in order to have a more effective counter?

 

[-ACE-]

No. Go Ganon man. What are the chances of you facing m2k in bracket? he's the only one that's essentially unbeatable. All sheiks mediocre and up can be a big challenge, but once you get more accustomed to the matchup your outlook will change.

 

[Triforce of Love]

What are you guys's favorite / most effective maneuvers or tricks to land blows on a sheik or just in general?

 

[-ACE-]

just space moves (best: bair, uair, ftilt) based on how you think she will approach and mix in empty shff perfect wavelands when doing an aerial would be too risky and you can bait her. sh bair/uairs and fj dair/fairs can work as well since you keep your jump. You can jump away or waveland on a platform after doing any of those jump/aerial combinations, for example. It's bait and punish mostly. You have to try your best to trick her/get her into situations that aren't so grim for Ganon (ex: keep her above you). Try to control the center of the stage to an extent but don't give sheik to much free space. Keep pressure on her without leaving yourself pen. It requires great tech skill, quick reaction time, knowledge of sheik's hitboxes/approaches, and knowledge of the appropriate distance to maintain from sheik in any given situation. Grab, or anything that leads to grab is usually best. If you get a grab on fd (or a platformed stage as long as you grab her on ground level) at any time you should get a ko or at least an edgeguard opportunity after you chaingrab and finish it properly. Bair approaches if you can, uair when she jumps, do not get grabbed. maximum punishment at 0% always begins with dair to grab, but requires a read or shield poke usually. space fairs fully and use them sparingly. think twice before going for risky ****. kill her as soon and as efficiently as possible. if you do EVERYTHING RIGHT you will hang with good sheiks and have a decent shot at winning, but you have to put in 5x the effort sheik does.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

in what situation would it be good to throw out a nair? out of grab?

 

[-ACE-]

None. You basically always want to dthrow sheik, then chaingrab + aerial, or just aerial him if you cant cg.

Also here is another post of mine with good sheik stuff. Think of this every time you play the matchup.

When you have 0% damage vs sheik, protect it as long as possible. This is the only time you get a freebie, where tilts don't give her guaranteed follow-ups, and you can escape the chaingrab 99% of the time (imo) and reset neutral game. When you get grabbed, mash out if she's dumb enough to pummel. On dthrow, DI away (ASDI away) and begin holding down. After ASDI registers, your regular/directional DI can influence your position ever so slightly (similar to survival DI'ing a hit and immediately holding toward the stage). Don't quote me as I'm not 100% sure, but I think you can tech a frame earlier. I've used this for years against sheiks of all levels with success. Once Ganon is at 6-8% you can count on getting regrabbed every time, so your goal is to sneak in a grab before receiving damage and get ahead. Yes, this is hard, and you have to be MONEY on the cg, but that is the goal. Once you have some damage, no more freebies. And SDI EVERY HIT she lands on you. F*ck that jab to grab nonsense.

If you have specific questions ask them here or in Linguini's main thread. If no one answers pm me. I'm pretty good at explaining sh't

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

None. You basically always want to dthrow sheik, then chaingrab + aerial, or just aerial him if you cant cg.

Also here is another post of mine with good sheik stuff. Think of this every time you play the matchup.



If you have specific questions ask them here or in Linguini's main thread. If no one answers pm me. I'm pretty good at explaining sh't

Does nair work on any of the top tier character? and with which part of his leg is the desirable area to hit with?

 

[-ACE-]

Its great vs marth, and can be used against all sheik and spacies as well. You use the first hit of nair to hit them when they are already in the air and at low(marth/sheik) to medium(fox/falco) percent, in order to force them to land on a platform and give you a free techchase (in which case you could fair them offstage for a KO opportunity, for example). First hit of nair has less knockback than uair which makes bigger combos (involving techchasing) possible.

Example: sheik is at 20% on battlefield, center of the stage, bottom level, and you stomp her and she doesn't DI. You can sh, nair her with the first hit, immediately ff and L-cancel, and you can do whatever you want as she techs.on the platform in front of you. Textbook sh*t, especially vs marth.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Take her to FoD. Most of my victories against sheik are on this stage. It shuts down her chaingrab and limits camping underneath platforms.

Discuss.

Sometimes, it is useful to have fox as a secondary

 

[-ACE-]

Lmao, SOMETIMES??

What up Paul!

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

Duuude, ACE! I remember you this time! Haha cuz there was less alcohol in my brain. It's crazy you got Al Capone as your pic, I just watched an entire 45 min documentary about him before I opened this tab.

 

[FWB!]

Go Falcon. Lol

Don't jump much, never stop moving, space with bairs, chain grab her to hell

 

[The Young Izzy Iz]

@ VegiLohrd

Learn your hitboxes. Learn Sheik's hitboxes. Learn your framedata. Learn Sheik's framedata. Know how long each potential option is going to take and what advantages you might gain from them. Know how to react to your opponent. Bait and punish with easy stuff like retreating fair if they're dumb enough to fall for it. Don't get too caught up in needle spam: retreat too and use the platforms to maneuver yourself around the stage as quickly as possible to try and find an optimal attack angle. Understand that if the Sheik is playing offensively that's probably better for you because if you predict correctly your punishes are going to be >>>>>>> than Sheik landing some non-comboing poke. Smash DI out of her tilts if she's reaching for them so you don't get combo'd / combo'd so badly. Match requires a lot of reaction -> adaptation -> prediction -> reading on your part.

 

[-ACE-]

I'd almost rather play a defensive sheik. You can't cc forever and it's hard to bait her close in. Remember one sneaky perfect wL grab can be a stock. They'll be a challenge either way but it's not always smart to give an experienced Ganon room to play.

 

[Sebovich]

I'd almost rather play a defensive sheik. You can't cc forever and it's hard to bait her close in. Remember one sneaky perfect wL grab can be a stock. They'll be a challenge either way but it's not always smart to give an experienced Ganon room to play.

One of my friends recently picked up Sheik, and plays very defensively. I find it incredibly hard to approach, since he just throws out needles when Im waveland towardshim, and if I approach by air, a simple dashdance back and forth will get me grabbed. Any tips? Once I get ahold of him it´s usually no problem, I got the chaingrab under control and all that, it´s mainly the approaching that´s my main issue. I usually play a very patient Ganon but against this, I just get dmg cause of needles.

 

[-ACE-]

One of my friends recently picked up Sheik, and plays very defensively. I find it incredibly hard to approach, since he just throws out needles when Im waveland towardshim, and if I approach by air, a simple dashdance back and forth will get me grabbed. Any tips? Once I get ahold of him it´s usually no problem, I got the chaingrab under control and all that, it´s mainly the approaching that´s my main issue. I usually play a very patient Ganon but against this, I just get dmg cause of needles.

You will have to take VERY close note of his shielding habits, jab habits, and ftilt habits for grabs. Once you master the cg it's time to be a better grab getter. I'll elaborate more later maybe.