How to deal with Marth Dittos

[xelasfx]

I was wondering how you usually deal with Marth dittos. My main problem is i just get chain fthrow into tipper. I always DI away hoping to get out of range but just end up screwing myself >< I tried searching but couldn't find anything. What do you usually do to avoid this instant death combo. I also get owned by counters on recoveries, sometimes i get away by perfect sweet spot but it is still hard. Any help would be nice . I can do about every advanced technique just need help with technical skills

 

[Velox]

Keep DIing away. DI away against pretty much everything in Marth dittos. If you're unsure as to which way to DI against any combo in this game, set away as a default...

Use dash attack, A LOT. Lots of Marth's like to dash dance camp, and attack (mainly grab) you after your approach. Kinda overshoot them a bit and it will catch them as they try to run away. The fact that Marth kinda flails out there with the dash attack gives the move increadible reach and speed of reach (so to speak). Any move that covers ground that fast (Captain's >B, Falco's >B) are Marth's key weaknesses at high levels of play (of course, Marth can get around this just like anything).

Go ahead and turn the dash attacks into TGM combos (dash attack -> f-smash).

 

[HoshiPuri]

You could chain grab him back. Forward B for attacking throw shields. When he starts counter switch your game to a grab game. Doing only grab and Marth's smexy long grab range, ticks people off. So it's all about grab grab grab. People like that go aggressive, which you can punish back like SHFFLing them. Maybe to a Ken combo. TGM combos are ftw too.

 

[xelasfx]

i do usually try to DI away from fthrow but that usually ends me up getting tipped :[

 

[Anomic_Punk]

Learn how to punish your opponent's approach~
For example, if they're shffling f-airs at you, (god forbid double f-airs), wait for them to swing, then jump in with a n-air.
(for reference, don't empty-shffl double forward airs, it'll get you grabbed or hit if you don't space them perfectly)
If they like to approach with grabs, try to spot dodge and predict when they're coming at you.
Dash attacks are nice for approaching your opponent, so realize they may do the same to you. If you shield their dash attack, WD out of your shield towards them and grab them out of their lag.

Other than that, get the grabs. Keep grabbing. That first grab at 0% is crucial.
If you're on top of your game, you can chain throw them forward 2 or 3 times to the ledge, and get a quick kill. (F-smash if they DI poorly, ken combo if they DI up, dash attack to d-air or fsmash if they're ******** enough or don't expect it)
For recovering against Marths, sweetspotting is everything. If you don't SS you're dead.
They'll crouch cancel your Up+B, and D-tilt or F-smash you. If you're far enough away, they may hang on the ledge and drop down with a B-air to gimp you out of your jump. The best you can do to this, is try and hit them with a F-air to try and screw with their recovery, cause you're pretty much dead.

An interesting way to try and avoid the ledge-drop B-air, is to use a side+b while you're recovering, to turn yourself away from the stage, and throw a b-air yourself as you jump. If you do it right, you'll kill them for their attempt to kill you. (No guarantees- **** happens)

Space yourself properly, DI out of their combos correctly, and focus on mindgames to get those grabs and start the combos.

Hope this helped some~

 

[FrostByte]

There's also the downside to the dash attack too, which is greater than the reward in dittos. If it gets shielded, you can get grabbed or faired out of sheild which = combo. Dtilt is the safest approach in this matchup IMO and you have more options after it.

 

[Klowne]

Pretty much the entire matchup is dashdancing and grabbing into killer fthrow combos. Main focus is proper DI and dashdancing properly. Anomic_Punk's post is good.

 

[xelasfx]

thanks a lot Anomic that recovery trick is interesting . What direction do you guys usually DI with your analog stick and what %s do you do them at. Somebody told me to DI diagnolly downward away from ur opponent. Will this help you get out of tipper at low %s?

 

[Anomic_Punk]

DI-ing diagonally downward helps you to hit the ground, rather than continue to float up from being chain-thrown forward. If you do it right, the best that your opponent can do is chain throw you forward twice. Now, when you hit the ground, you'll want to roll away instantly, because your opponent is likely still looking to finish their combo, either with a quick dashdance-> grab, or f-airs to a spike or f-smash. When you escape those low % grabs, be sure you turn it around instantly: grab them and even the score.

I agree with FrostByte, the D-tilt is by far the safest approach option.

My personal favorite approach, is to short hop, at the peak of your SH, throw a f-air and fast fall/ l-cancel it, followed by a D-tilt. If you're spacing yourself right, you will NEVER get shield grabbed out of that, and anything they try to do out of their shield will get them poked by your D-tilt. Try to follow D-tilts with grabs, it maximizes your options for comboing, but you could do whatever you feel like after a successful D-tilt. (Side+B combo, F-tilt, F-smash, Aerials, Neutral B, anything goes, but some will be MUCH less useful than others)
If you start to get predictable with the F-air->D-tilt->Grab approach, try Neutral A's instead of a grab. Just a few, 2-3 swings. You're likely to get a few hacks of free damage, and you're relatively safe from shield grabs, if you're still spaced properly after the D-tilt. But, like I mentioned, only do a few, because your opponent will punish you for a longer Neutral A chain. =P

 

[edgeswipe21]

i've had trouble in marth ditto bc everything i can do they can do, sometime annoying. i think it comes down to mindgames in ne ditto if ur opponent is equal or better in tech skills.

 

[Joe_Sumo]

Learn to tech to avoid the f-throw tipper. also pay close attention to spaceing.

On your recovery, remember to save your jump until you're close to the stage so you dont have to recover from below with your up+b so much. the very best solution it to get better at sweet spotting the edge unless your buddy is smart enuff to d-tilt you

 

[Micheloxx]

i dont really know how to deal with marth dittos, im just readding the forum so i get a litlle of help XD

 

[WhiteOblv]

Dont marth ditto use fox or sheik when against another marth.

On anothre note just dont get grabbed.

 

[Dark Sonic]

DI-ing diagonally downward helps you to hit the ground, rather than continue to float up from being chain-thrown forward. If you do it right, the best that your opponent can do is chain throw you forward twice. Now, when you hit the ground, you'll want to roll away instantly, because your opponent is likely still looking to finish their combo, either with a quick dashdance-> grab, or f-airs to a spike or f-smash. When you escape those low % grabs, be sure you turn it around instantly: grab them and even the score.

Yes. Finnally someone mentions the best DI.

 

[pockyD]

i've had trouble in marth ditto bc everything i can do they can do, sometime annoying. i think it comes down to mindgames in ne ditto if ur opponent is equal or better in tech skills.

lol this is just about the least informative post ever

 

[edgeswipe21]

y r u flammin on me? i said mind games, wat about micheloxx...

 

[pockyD]

OK let's break it down

i've had trouble in marth ditto bc everything i can do they can do

character advantage - even

ur opponent is equal or better in tech skills.

tech skill advantage - your opponent


what else can you do?

p.s. i'd love to hear what you think mindgames are in such a way that they aren't really the key to winning ALL relevant matchups

 

[edgeswipe21]

exactly, that y i said it comes down to mind games. unless u have a tech adv. O well sry if i wasn't helpful.

 

[TGM]

if you make some one do something that gets them punished.....tech skill means nothing.


thats the f-ing truth.

 

[edgeswipe21]

well fine then my point in the begining WAS that it comes down to mind games

 

[TGM]

yes but also, if you space better than the other marth, it opens up better chances for combos.

secondly, if you counter pick him on levels he doesnt play......you will also have an advantage.

 

[edgeswipe21]

marth vs marth i dont think u can really counter pik 2 ur adv...unless the player dosen't know the scene....and spacing can be considered technical, ur goin back on ur word :\

 

[knightpraetor]

hey i can't remember, but i assume you can spotdodge the dtilt but then you'd get poked again? so you should just roll?

are you saying you don't have time to hop out of the shield and go over the dtilt because of shield stun? i think that's the case but i can't remember...been so long since i played (almost 1.5 months since i did anything but ultra low tier vs my brother's marth...and ftr bowser's spot dodge sucks against marth)

 

[TGM]

marth vs marth i dont think u can really counter pik 2 ur adv...unless the player dosen't know the scene....and spacing can be considered technical, ur goin back on ur word :\

no. i said better spacing. not 100% tips or double fairs....ect. just space a little better.

and when i say counter pcik i ment the fact that the foe MAY NOT be too good on certain level. ive met many many players that only use the 6 or 5 random stages. never do they use green greens or japes
or corneria.

 

[edgeswipe21]

no. i said better spacing. not 100% tips or double fairs....ect. just space a little better.

and when i say counter pcik i ment the fact that the foe MAY NOT be too good on certain level. ive met many many players that only use the 6 or 5 random stages. never do they use green greens or japes
or corneria.

ok... i mention the not knowing scene part, and spacing isn't mind game and if its not tech where does it lie?