How to break campy or defensive play styles?

[Smob]

Hey SmashBoards,

I have been going to smash tournaments on and off since Smash 4's release but mostly just for fun. I'm really looking to improve my play and take my tournaments more seriously, I've been keeping mental notes of what I've been losing to and my biggest weakness is fighting players who are very patient or reactive. I'm talking about instances in the neutral game where neither player is at a real advantage... players who sit and wait for me to act first I have the hardest time fighting.

I imagine match-up knowledge can go a long way in the neutral but what I'm looking for are some general guidelines for forcing my opponent to react and choose an option before me. Most of the characters I play don't have a ton of safe options on shield so I'm forced to get a read most of the time to net kills or rack up damage.

For example, I played a DK player last night in tournament... His game plan was to stand still and wait for me to come in and grab me. He never acted first or took any risks, I was thinking to myself during the game that I could also just stand away and wait for him but I wouldn't really be accomplishing anything by doing so (or maybe I would, IDK).

Anyways, do you guys ever face opponents like this or play this style yourselves and could provide some guidance or some general rules you follow?

Thanks,

Smob

 

[Pink'd]

The solution depends upon what kind of camp/defense you're fighting. If the player is just standing still, or trying to bait you by jumping and doing relatively lagless aerials, stand still/jump and do a lagless aerial and wait for them to approach. If the camper is shooting projectiles at you, you can either answer with your own, slowly walk towards your opponent and power shield their projectiles, or stand still and power shield, forcing them to come to you.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Space your aerials to be safe on shield.

 

[nebulark]

Against this type of players I always make use of reaction times. For example: When I am playing Marth and jumping at someone, at some point he has to do something, because he can't react to my Fair. If he shields you can fast fall and grab him otherwise hit him with an air move.
Always keep in mind which move from you opponent you want to avoid. If you don't want to get grabed, it's better to cross him up and risk getting hit by one of his moves.
You can also only pretend to move in and still force an action. Depending on his action, he might not be able to get in his original defensive position fast enough. You can also do this multiple times to hide when you really want to attack.
As others have said hitting the shield with safe attack is also a good option.
Always look out for how he is anwering your approaches. If he only shieldgrabs, cross him up or run up/fast fall and grab him. If he attacks try to outspace him or make him whiff and then punish. Against rolling try to predict it and hit where he will be.
Sometimes I just slowly walk up to him. In this case neither player has an advantage winning the next interaction. However, you get stagecontrol and thus are less likely to die/force into disadvantage. Additionally if he only uses a small amount of attacks, you can play around that netting you a higher chance to win the interaction.

 

[Big-Cat]

Turn the bait and punish back to them and do not pursue if you're in the life lead or if they're faster than you.

 

[Ralugi]

Close the distance. As one these players, I find it extremely annoying when a player power shields my projectiles while slowly inching towards me. Don't rush down, but counter their aggression as those above have said. All projectiles have some type of lag you can exploit.

Second word of advice. When you finally close the distance, use a move with high priority, like Luigi/Mario's Nair. This way they will be forced to either attack, shield or dodge.

In the instance of an attack, spot dodge or air dodge, then grab or counter for the optimal punish. Though some moves have multiple hit boxes, so it may be wise to false hop out, or RAR.

If they roll, dash attack typically throws them off the stage. You may then attemp to gimp them or edge guard for extra damage.

Shields are easy, you just grab them and punish.

 

[Machii]

Dash feints with back rolling works well at drawing action from campers. Also Dash>forward rolling. inputting up direction between dash and forward roll cancels the delay in between.

 

[Floor]

Without getting into character specifics, be safe and smart. Using your DK scenario, look at it this way. You know what he's going to do (grab and camp) but he doesn't have any solid knowledge of what you're doing. A basic strat could be playing dash and pivot grab mind games or try walking away while close to him and pivot f-tilt (of you have a long range f-tilt like lucina)

Another thing, claim stage dominance and keep the middle. If you're in the middle, you can force you're opponent to be a bit more aggressive and counter. Apply pressure, but never overextend yourself. Your opponent is relying on your lag so don't give him any and keep it safe

 

[kendikong]

If react to a campy playstyle by switching to a campy playstyle myself. Going for a projectile heavy character like Mewtwo or something definitely makes them forced to be more aggressive.

 

[iVoltage]

Usually they want to keep you out of their zone, that being the area you can hurt them. Usually they have bad out of sheild options so you can go from there.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Hey SmashBoards,

I have been going to smash tournaments on and off since Smash 4's release but mostly just for fun. I'm really looking to improve my play and take my tournaments more seriously, I've been keeping mental notes of what I've been losing to and my biggest weakness is fighting players who are very patient or reactive. I'm talking about instances in the neutral game where neither player is at a real advantage... players who sit and wait for me to act first I have the hardest time fighting.

I imagine match-up knowledge can go a long way in the neutral but what I'm looking for are some general guidelines for forcing my opponent to react and choose an option before me. Most of the characters I play don't have a ton of safe options on shield so I'm forced to get a read most of the time to net kills or rack up damage.

For example, I played a DK player last night in tournament... His game plan was to stand still and wait for me to come in and grab me. He never acted first or took any risks, I was thinking to myself during the game that I could also just stand away and wait for him but I wouldn't really be accomplishing anything by doing so (or maybe I would, IDK).

Anyways, do you guys ever face opponents like this or play this style yourselves and could provide some guidance or some general rules you follow?

Thanks,

Smob

http://8wayrun.com/threads/spacing-lines-in-the-sand.14615/