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How to beat an extremely shield grab and spotdodge reliant player

Joined
Mar 12, 2014
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98
Location
Manitoba, Canada
So my friends playstyle practically revolves around shield grabbing and then sidestepping my grab attempts.

What do?

EDIT:Forgot the question mark in the title, please dont kill me
 
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ShadowGanon

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So my friends playstyle practically revolves around shield grabbing and then sidestepping my grab attempts.

What do?

EDIT:Forgot the question mark in the title, please dont kill me
I'd say projectile camp or, when you go in, try to stay behind him.
 
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shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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Outspace his grab, bait out the spotdodge. Use projectiles if you have any.
 

Paradoxium

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Use multi hit or lingering moves against the spotdodge, or you could try and bait it out.

For shield grabbing you can space your attacks or cross up his shield. with good spacing in the neutral you can bait out shield grabs or cause him to stay stuck in his shield
 
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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Manitoba, Canada
Another big problem I have with this matchup is that his shield never seems to wear down, I can hit his shield with 2 marth nairs and 2 f smashes and his shield just stays the same, does anyone know where I can find the data for shields (eg. how much damage they can take, how fast they regenerate, etc...)
 

ShadowGanon

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Another big problem I have with this matchup is that his shield never seems to wear down, I can hit his shield with 2 marth nairs and 2 f smashes and his shield just stays the same, does anyone know where I can find the data for shields (eg. how much damage they can take, how fast they regenerate, etc...)
lol. If you're looking for shield damage with Marth, use neutral-b. It EATS shields.
 
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shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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Who does he play? IIRC all shields have the same amount of life.

Also yeah, using one nB guarantees he won't put up his shield for a while.
 
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shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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Well, the best way to beat his camping would be to force him to go on the offensive, which projectile-based characters are great for.

You could also try pressuring his shield with spacies, if you have the techskill.
 

Thor

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As Falcon [your mains?] you could practice trying to safely knee his shield - if you perfectly space and l-cancel a sweetspotted knee I'm pretty sure you can grab and they can't escape at all [or so I've read - someone can verify/disprove]. This is tricky, but useful to be able to do (and I think it will l-cancel it quickly enough so you can still be ready to react if they spotdodge the knee).

Alternatively if they have no projectiles, just run away, hopefully on a stage like Battlefield or Dreamland - force them into the air, because you've just taken them away from their gameplan when you're not in hitstun. If they're on a platform themselves, just SH or FH uair them from below - they'll have to come down eventually which is what you want.

Better yet, dash up as though ready to grab them, but do nothing, then grab/hit them out of the endlag of their spotdodge - spotdodge has a few vulnerability frames at the end, so you can actually punish spotdodges before they get can get their shield back up or do a roll, spotdodge, or jump. The timing is admittedly tight, but it will give you an edge versus players who spotdodge a lot.

If you have a projectile, just run away and camp them hard. The suggestions the others have given you will work well.

P.S: There should be a way to edit the title of a thread. You can probably find it and add the question mark.
 

Paradoxium

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Please, don't start choosing projectile characters and running away because your friend spot dodges and shield grabs lol. Work on your spacing, not just spacing your air attacks spacing your character in general. Like dash dancing in and out of your opponents range, and if you play as a pressure character learn how to apply shield pressure, if he is constantly throwing out spot dodges than he is probably being very predictable with them. Let him throw out the spot dodges and then punish
 

9bit

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Like Paradoxium said, learn to space your attacks safely far enough away so that your opponent's grab can't catch you, and learn to time your attacks on shield right so you can followup and keep your opponent in shield stun.

I had a buddy a while back who was really shieldgrab- and spotdodge-happy. At first it really got me, like I kept getting punished. But I realized it was my own fault. I was attacking unsafely and being predictable.

I would suggest paying close attention every time he shield grabs you or spot dodges you, and think to yourself "what did I do there that caused this, and what can I do to circumvent that?"
 

Terotrous

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You need to use safer offense. Don't hit people really deep with slow aerials or god forbid punishable dash attacks. Use fast aerials and try to make sure you space your attacks to be outside their grab range. If you're playing Marth, focus on poking him with moves like Fair and Dtilt, which are safe on shield against most characters from range. You could also try baiting spot dodges with jabs, though those can be shield grabbed from close range.

Also some people are just really legit with spot dodge. If you've got great reads, it can be very powerful. Friends who have played each other for a long time can often spot dodge each other very well because they know the other's tendencies, it's like this with my friend too.
 
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TreK

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Learn some frame data, I'm pretty sure your character has got some moves that cannot be shieldgrabbed.
If you want/need to use a move that you know is not safe, you can space it far away that they'll whiff their grab if they attempt it.
You can also land behind them so that shieldgrabbing is not an option, and they have to do a bair instead. A bair is usually slower than a grab so you'll have more aerials that are safe on crossup.

As for spotdodges, try to predict them and punish. It has a ton of lag at the end where they cannot shield and are not invulnerable anymore. I usually dash dance when I predict one, and grab during their lag. That way I can just keep running away if it turns out I predicted wrong.
 

ECHOnce

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I don't know if anyone else has suggested this before, but for shield-grab-happy opponents, making sure that you're behind them whenever they're close is a good method to avoid the grabs. e.g. approach from in front of them, jump over if they're put up their shield, and B-air...or if they're still shielding, land and grab / apply shield pressure / pierce their shield / attack them as soon as they drop the shield.

Mix that up with approaching their front side (with careful spacing) to bait out attacks or get them to retreat, and dodge/punish/chase as necessary. As long as you mix them up the front/back approaches and don't rely on either one too much, you'll be in the more advantageous position; as soon as they raise their shield when you approach, you'll know that they're restricted to an OoS action, whereas you'll have 2 options, and therefore you'll have more time to react to whatever they can do.
 

Saito

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If all he does is do shield grabs try doing this as a sort of mindgame.

Jump high. Like predictably high.
He will naturally prepare to guard the aerial
Just land in front of him. Don't hit just land in front of him
More than likely he will go for the grab right after you land. Dash dance backwards to dodge the grab then forwards and grab him

post results
 
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Mera Mera

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Spacing is key, as everyone said. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfBuAo_Bfvw

One note on shffling: you don't want to do rising aerials if there's a chance he'll shield, because then you aren't canceling your move in time to be safe. The exception would be if the move is a multihit, thus letting you be safe until you land. Multihits are also useful for letting yourself land behind the shielding opponent in cases where you otherwise wouldn't have enough airspeed to do so safely.

As for the spot dodging issue, this is somewhat easily fixed, though it's unintuitive. The solution: sometimes do nothing. It's bad to always do nothing since then the other person can control the pace of the match, and it's bad to always attack because then the opponent has the advantage of knowing that anytime you're near you will attack, making spotdodge very potent. So sometimes dash towards them and wavedash back (or dash back if you want and you aren't in a full run yet). If they do nothing repeat and/or wait and see what he does. People become do stupid things if you don't attack for too long. Don't always do this, but this hot and cold treatment will make him second guess his spotdodges as well as allow you to punish spotdodges if he does spotdodge one of the times you choose to "do nothing."
 

GaretHax

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You play marth, you literally have no reason to hit his shield. You dont need to constantly be attacking and throwing out areals, learn to wait and be offensive with the space your character controls. If he is shielding just dashdance around in front of his shield and see how he reacts; if he gets scared and spotdoges Fsmash him, if he rolls back follow and grab or Fsmash, if he rolls forward grab him, if he wavedashes back close the gap and see what he does next, wavedashed toward you grab or bait out an areal or something I mean he just rammed his face into a dashdancing Marth..., if he jumps follow with an areal and destroy him, if he jumps on a platform pressure him from below. Or you can always do a retreating fair on shield, but that can be punished with a wavedash oos into grab, cross up his shield with nair. Believe it or not, but having an opponent locked down down in Fsmash range is probably one of Marth's best situations. Anyway best of luck.
 

PiBs

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When dashing forward toward him, wavedash back to switch him up. If he whiffs a shield grab punish him with a grab or something.
 
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