How the heck do you approach?

[Altea77]

I just can't seem to approach anyone online unless i'm playing someone much inferior to me. The dancing blade is the only thing that consistently works, but after doing that a couple times, the opponent starts picking up on it, so it gets much harder to use. I've tried running short hop nair but the sword always goes over the opponents head and running short hop fair doesn't work unless the opponent's character has less range than Marth.

 

[Darklink401]

Running up and grabbing, or running up and shielding, to then fsmash always works pretty well for me. You can also try to do a retreating SH fair to space a bit, or even do the yolo SH Neutral B

 

[X-ian]

My approaches consist of retreating f-airs (short hop f-airing then pulling back into safe distance) and running up or jumping into dancing blades (I mix up the combos).
You can follow up nicely on the retreating f-airs as you have enough distance to keep you away while an opponent rushes you. Also, if your opponent wises up to your Full DB Combos, then trick them into shielding with the first or second part of the combo, then go immediately into a grab.

However, something else you could try is shorthop airdodging at/past the opponent. The thing with Mr. Fancypants is that when he short hop airdodges, he has enough height to throw out a b-air or a f-air out of it with as much lag as if you didn't airdodge (the attack lag cancels out the airdodge lag). This means pressure on them as you are attacking after a invulnerable state and also if you jump past them, they can't grab you right away for the punish. Just know this doesn't mean you're invincible, but it's another option to throw out against an opponent. In my experience, it is mostly safe to throw out considering you're throwing an attack out to cover your descent back to the ground and of course, you're airdodging.

Some others would be attempting a shorthop dancing blade (only the first part) > n-air > grab (if it hits it combos nicely at low percents, otherwise it can keep the opponent shielding for you to grab), and as said by Darklink above: running up for grabs, and running into shield to bait an attack out then punishing. Also, if you wish to go for it, the shorthop shield breaker. To be honest, the SB can be used well if you can just hit them, shield or not, but it takes a lot of commitment and can lead to punishes. Just know it has its time and place, and speaking of timing, makes sure it doesn't whiff above your opponent cause that's asking for a punish (I almost always release the SB too early and miss ).

 

[EternalFlame]

My approaches consist of retreating f-airs (short hop f-airing then pulling back into safe distance) and running up or jumping into dancing blades (I mix up the combos).
You can follow up nicely on the retreating f-airs as you have enough distance to keep you away while an opponent rushes you. Also, if your opponent wises up to your Full DB Combos, then trick them into shielding with the first or second part of the combo, then go immediately into a grab.

However, something else you could try is shorthop airdodging at/past the opponent. The thing with Mr. Fancypants is that when he short hop airdodges, he has enough height to throw out a b-air or a f-air out of it with as much lag as if you didn't airdodge (the attack lag cancels out the airdodge lag). This means pressure on them as you are attacking after a invulnerable state and also if you jump past them, they can't grab you right away for the punish. Just know this doesn't mean you're invincible, but it's another option to throw out against an opponent. In my experience, it is mostly safe to throw out considering you're throwing an attack out to cover your descent back to the ground and of course, you're airdodging.

Some others would be attempting a shorthop dancing blade (only the first part) > n-air > grab (if it hits it combos nicely at low percents, otherwise it can keep the opponent shielding for you to grab), and as said by Darklink above: running up for grabs, and running into shield to bait an attack out then punishing. Also, if you wish to go for it, the shorthop shield breaker. To be honest, the SB can be used well if you can just hit them, shield or not, but it takes a lot of commitment and can lead to punishes. Just know it has its time and place, and speaking of timing, makes sure it doesn't whiff above your opponent cause that's asking for a punish (I almost always release the SB too early and miss ).

Lies and deciet sir, you got me with that tipper SB during our last match and won with that xD Remind me later to update the guide on using the BAir and FAir with the SH air dodge subsection, since that was surprizingly useful when I fought you earlier today (Still risky as anything, but hey, risk is part of the game xD).

But all of what X-ian said is pretty much all you need for approaching with Marth. Though on correction a bit, that Short Hop Dancing Blades (SH DB) is a setup and doesn't truly combo unfortunately. You're betting on the opponent's hesitation/mistake more than anything else between the swings, and the timing is strict to get out. SH Nairs are also another good option for approaching due to the two swings, and you can use it like you do the FAirs. They are technically more safer, but followups are harder to come by. You can protect your FAir with a Shied Breaker (SB) or DB before landing too, but using that only works if your opponent is spaced well from the sword swing and is not fast enough to close the distance quickly.

Another thing you can do is poking with your DTilt after sliding to a stop from your running shield. This is a relatively safe option when spaced well, and is a setup in of itself when your opponent blocks, spot dodges, or is hit by it (like you can run up and grab them or SH FAir them).

All of these approach options rely on the main fact that you must space them correctly to get the most use out of them. Shorter characters are harder to hit with them at points, and fast/farther reaching opponents will be able to capitalize on mistakes or wiffs. You need to get use to where the attacks hit and keep your opponents a sword's length away. Once you get use to where the hitboxes are for your attacks, it will make applying the stuff you read on a little easier - the rest is just practice and experience

 

[X-ian]

Lies and deciet sir, you got me with that tipper SB during our last match and won with that xD Remind me later to update the guide on using the BAir and FAir with the SH air dodge subsection, since that was surprizingly useful when I fought you earlier today (Still risky as anything, but hey, risk is part of the game xD).

I mean, you were in a jump, but if you stayed on the ground, I would have most definitely whiffed. I suppose my poor timing with the SB worked out that time. ^^ hehe

 

[Killtrox]

I typically use dancing blade but do it slowly. I'd say 85% of the time they think I'll stop and lower their shield, only to get caught by down+b for the last hit. Lots of reach and multiple hits gives you a good chance to catch them sleeping.

Otherwise, reverse bairs work well for me. Run in, then quickly press away, jump, and use your bair. Your momentum will carry you forward but you'll get to use the bait that way, which I feel is more accurate than the fair.

 

[LoreLes]

Walk and bait. Seriously.

You can play reactive against your opponent by walking up to them and shield almost anything they toss at you at which point you can punish with whatever you want. Walk up Dtilt, Ftilt, full hop fairs, whatever the situation on hand calls for.

 

[etecoon]

Agreed with walking, Marth walks swiftly and a lot of times you can just walk away and watch opponents attacks whiff for easy punishes. Just move around and pressure them to do something. If you are going to move first it's a matter of reading them, if they catch on to the fact that you're just running up and throwing dancing blade in their face constantly, what is it that they counter this with?

 

[Megaman11]

What do you guys do against players who like to roll all over the place and spam grab. And zoners like toon link, duck hunt ?

 

[EternalFlame]

Hmm... I'm debating whether this place is the best place to ask this, since we have a Marth Q and A for stuff like this. I'll leave it to Locuan's discression on how to deal with this, but allow me to address the questions here xD

Agreed with walking, Marth walks swiftly and a lot of times you can just walk away and watch opponents attacks whiff for easy punishes. Just move around and pressure them to do something. If you are going to move first it's a matter of reading them, if they catch on to the fact that you're just running up and throwing dancing blade in their face constantly, what is it that they counter this with?

They'll usually jab you first, or block then grab punish, or space you out with a projectile. DB isn't safe on blocks, and usually good players will retaliate with a fast move to beat your next move out. Marth needs spacing for a reason, and once people are in that sour spot zone, Marth can be beaten out by faster moves.

What do you guys do against players who like to roll all over the place and spam grab. And zoners like toon link, duck hunt ?

If they roll alot, anticipate where they go and throw an attack where they will stop. DB is excellent for this reason due to the lasting hitbox it has and is much easier t go into from a run. Rolling, as much as it is a strong option now, is still quite punishable if you can read where they will go with it. Going for pivot grabs/FTilts/FSmashes is also another good option to go for to fake people into rolling into a bad spot. Your goal with the pivot stuff is to run towards them, bait the roll backwards, and run past their roll and get them with one of the options listed. Grabs and FTilts will likely be the one you use the most, due to how much faster and slightly safer they are for catching rolls. If all they go for are grabs as well, means they aren't expecting you to outspeed them. Jabs/DTilts will be your main answer for them if they are already in your face. But usually you want to space them out, keeping em at a sword's length, and don't let them get in too close to begin with.

As for Zoners, they are trying to outspace you with their projectiles. It's at this point that you have to rush in and don't give them space to breathe. Running/walking to shields, perfect shielding, and SH air dodges are ideal for closing the distance quickly. You don't want to give them space to start laying their traps, but once they do, go for the best dodging you can to quickly recover and reapply pressure. Projectiles are a harsh thing for Marth/Lucina to deal with since they lack one themselves. So it's up to you to get in so their spacing won't matter when you're up at their face.

Hopefully this helps out a bit dude xD

 

[adamlon1]

I mainly just run up and grab when it comes to approaches if I can't grab I just use a retreating fair however walking and baiting is the best option in most scenarios as you can act reactive to most scenarios like a whiff or an opening.