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How Pokemon are chosen

_R@bid_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
462
Location
Inside Your Head
Um... no. Not being included in SSE does not mean they were added late into the game. Ever thought those 3 characters just didn't fit into the storyline? If you guys actually knew, the entire roster was decided at the very beginning of the production, the only character added late into the game was Sonic.

Jigglypuff is very iconic in the smash series now as well, especially with a move like rest. She takes that role of being the "joke" character that noobies like using as a punching bag, however they still give her the capabilities to actually fight (for example, if you actually know that rest is an attack). Its an element of the game that she brings in.
While I do think Jiggs should still be in smash, she does have some threat to her if you go by Brawl. While Sonic was the only character added late in the game, afaik Jiggs, Wolf, Tink, and the forbidden 7 were the chars with lowest priority- they were the ones most likely to be cut if time constraints came into effect. They were planned, but hacker's finds iirc do always have them as the later added characters when it comes to the games data. However, I don't remember the exact source, unfortunately.
Of course, she does have the advantage of three appearances in smash, and would certainly serve to promote the new Pokemon type, so I'd say she's still safe regardless.
 

peeup

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,618
Location
Hartford/Mass
Um... no. Not being included in SSE does not mean they were added late into the game. Ever thought those 3 characters just didn't fit into the storyline? If you guys actually knew, the entire roster was decided at the very beginning of the production, the only character added late into the game was Sonic.

Jigglypuff is very iconic in the smash series now as well, especially with a move like rest. She takes that role of being the "joke" character that noobies like using as a punching bag, however they still give her the capabilities to actually fight (for example, if you actually know that rest is an attack). Its an element of the game that she brings in.

Please have your facts straight before you go posting hate. Yes, the roster was decided ages before the game came out. Know who was part of that roster? Mewtwo, Roy, Doc, Plusle+Minun, etc. Sakurai had a priority list (or something of the sort) of what characters would get cut if they didn't have time. Jiggs, Toon Link, and Wolf were a part of the same list as the forbidden 7. For whatever reason, Sakurai chose to include those 3 instead of any of the others. Presumably, yes, Jiggs was selected due to veteran status. However, that doesn't change the fact that Sakurai put her in the list of characters that would get axed should time be an issue. Them not appearing in SSE is not a result of them not fitting into the storyline... with such a lack of story, they could have thrown in absolutely anybody. They weren't in it because SSE was already finished and they had some extra time to put in last minute characters.

Jigglypuff is very iconic in the Smash series, I won't argue that. And she certainly fits the bill as being a lethal joke character. She brings a hell of a lot to the game and I would hate to see her go. She was my favorite in Melee and she was still in my top 5 in Brawl even after being nerfed to hell. Even still, Sakurai has made it clear that she is a low priority character to include. With Pokemon having more reps than Nintendo's biggest franchise (depending on how you look at it), Sakurai is probably okay with shaving off a Pokemon rep that is no longer the "flavor the week." Pikachu is here to stay. Nobody can deny that. Lucario will likely/possibly be replaced by the new flagship Pokemon, probably Mewtwo/three. PT was relevant because Brawl came out around the time of FR/LG. Jigglypuff, while a very popular Pokemon no doubt, is not relevant like she used to be. Though being a Fairy type really could help her case, it could allow for a heavily renovated moveset.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Ahh.
I think you're misunderstanding what Zoroarks "illusion" powers really do, dude.
I feel ya, bro.
However, this is smash - not pkmn.

Think about Lucario for a second.
Is his Extreme Speed anywhere close to how it's like in pkmn?
 

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
What about Meowth? Isn't he in like every episode of Pokémon? I honestly thought he deserved a slot a little more than Jigglypuff. I think it would be sick if they made Pokémon Trainer with Meowth, Jiggly, and Pikachu. Three fairy Pokémon with prevalence in the anime but only one slot taken. I honestly think Jigglypuff is a wasted slot. I also love her. I spent a lot of time with her in Melee/Brawl. I didn't really touch her in the 64 version.
 

Wigglytuff ★

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
51
Location
Saffron City
This article explains pretty clearly why Lucario was in Brawl: He was the next big thing in Pokemon at the time. He had the movie, he had vaunted status in the new games when Brawl was in production. He was current. This is also why I suspect Sakurai will see him as expendable for SSB4: Because Lucario was introduced because he was relevant to the interests of Pokemon fans at the time, and since he is no longer the star of his own movie, etc, he seems likely to be replaced by someone who is (Genesect? Mewtwo? I suspect it's the latter).

I certainly don't think it hurts Jigglypuff's chances that she was one of three Pokemon mentioned to be picking up a Fairy type in X&Y.

Wigglytuff should obviously replace Jigglypuff.
I mean, I think I'm pretty great, too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here
 

Sunnysunny

Blue-nubis
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
3,085
Location
Peyton, Colorado
I feel ya, bro.
However, this is smash - not pkmn.

Think about Lucario for a second.
Is his Extreme Speed anywhere close to how it's like in pkmn?
What about Ivysaur's Leech Seed?
Dontcha think that's a little lame though?
You're saying they should change Zoroarks defining characteristic "because it's smash and not pkmn."

When a character is put into smash, Sakurai is trying to make that character true to what defines him~! True to what makes that character unique!

Zoroarks illusion ability is unique to him in pokemon. No other pokemon has it and they put an awful lot of focus around it. In both Zoroarks movie, and the game. It's what makes Zoroark, Zoroark. To change that, would be like taking away Links Master sword and giving him a spear. Your messing with something important to the character, and there's no reason for it.

Keep in mind, that they also don't want to make a blatant "copy cat" character either. Kirby, for example, who's ability actually is to copy the opponent only copies one move.

I can understand wanting to tweak illusion a bit if it wasn't usable as a fighting ability, but it's completely usable, and would make for a really unique character if they base his moveset around it. They can easily make Zoroark unique, while still staying true to his character.
 

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
You've made me curious.
Please, give me your complete version/design of Smash Illusion.
I know I am not him. I just thought I would give my two cents. Perhaps Zoroark could be like Shang Tsung (Mortal Kombat). She could copy the opponents character with a damage boost. It would be an interesting main for someone who is good at the entire roster. Of course she would still have her own move set. I just think that maybe her standing special could be the transformation thing. Who knows they might even make it her final smash.
 

Sunnysunny

Blue-nubis
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
3,085
Location
Peyton, Colorado
Stuff & things
Ahh, sure. I'll show ya I ain't just blowing hot air here.
Take a gander at this sweet post I dug up.

One big attribute that separates Zoroark from the rest of the cast, let alone the Pokemon representatives, is his ability, Illusion. Not only does Zoroark use this to mock his opponents but he can also use this in battle for practical purposes.


During a few of Zoroark’s attacks, the fox can cancel out of them with a quick dash in a direction dependant on the player’s choice that takes less than a quarter of a second to perform and renders Zoroark “invisible”, while the animation plays out. The attack deal any damage and if the opponent tries to attack the copy, it disappears. On the other hand, Zoroark is still able to attack his opponent, making it seem like Zoroark’s victim attacked by a ghost. In other words, Zoroark can maintain the illusion that he is charging up an attack when he is really rushing for the kill. Keep in mind that Zoroark can only remain invisible for as long as the animation runs; once foes realize the Zoroark copy is just that, they’ll destroy it and reveal Zoroark’s location. Zoroark also can’t set up another illusion while he’s already in hiding, although he’s still able to attack normally. On the not so bright side, Zoroark CAN be attacked while he is invisible, although there’s no physical hint as to where he could be and it’ll take some tactics to guess where Zoroark will go. If Zoroark is attacked during this state, however, any illusion that he left behind prior will dissipate..
Credit to smashbot226 for thinking up this awesome idea awhile ago. Hell, better then I can do.

The idea uses Illusion as a pure mindgame and mix up tactic while staying true to what Zoroarks capable of. It's power comes purely from messing with your opponents head and instilling fear, and confusion. Something no other character in smash can't do to this extent. Hell, it's even more fitting considering what a trickster Zoroark is portrayed to be. Just feels like such a perfect concept in every way..

You can do some rad stuff with illusions! It has so much potential to make a unique character concept that has never been done in a fighting game before if ya put some thought into it. That's why I get bummed when people just wanna turn Zoroark into the next Shang Tsung/Edge master Ya know?
 

KingofPhantoms

The Spook Factor
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
33,024
Location
Southern California
3DS FC
1006-1145-8453
What about Meowth? Isn't he in like every episode of Pokémon? I honestly thought he deserved a slot a little more than Jigglypuff. I think it would be sick if they made Pokémon Trainer with Meowth, Jiggly, and Pikachu. Three fairy Pokémon with prevalence in the anime but only one slot taken. I honestly think Jigglypuff is a wasted slot. I also love her. I spent a lot of time with her in Melee/Brawl. I didn't really touch her in the 64 version.
I believe Meowth was planned to be in at least one of the Smash games, but I forgot which one/s.
 

Z1GMA

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
5,523
Location
Sweden
Ahh, sure. I'll show ya I ain't just blowing hot air here.
Take a gander at this sweet post I dug up.
Nice concept. I like it.
However, if he's gonna be like his Game/Anime Version, he needs to be able to change his appearance in some way, and not just fake out with Zoro Replicas.
That would turn into a baiting Fest. An OP one.

Glad we both want Zoro over Mew3, though.
 

Sunnysunny

Blue-nubis
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
3,085
Location
Peyton, Colorado
Nice concept. I like it.
However, if he's gonna be like his Game/Anime Version, he needs to be able to change his appearance in some way, and not just fake out with Zoro Replicas.
That would turn into a baiting Fest. An OP one.

Glad we both want Zoro over Mew3, though.
Aww shucks. <3 Yea. I guess the idea still has it's flaws though.

But yea.
Definitely want Zoroark over Mew3 for now. Mew3 hasn't grown on me yet, ya know?
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
14,152
NNID
Arcadenik
I still want Meowth in Smash since the 64 era. It would be fun to have a Pikachu vs. Meowth match or even a Pokemon Trainer vs. Team Rocket match.
 
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