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How many characters can they possibly fit in this game?

Andromeda

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THANK YOU SO FREAKING MUCH! I made a poste to this effect over a page ago and no one seems to heve read it. It's not a matter of how many they could possibly fit, or how much time they have, but how many characters make a good game.

There's a certain point when there are so many characers in a game that people take a look at the character selection screen and go 'Eugh!' especially new players. Thirty five is probably the upper limit of what feeels like a select group of elite video-game fighters.
Uhm... Was the "THANK YOU!" ironic or thankfull? I never read through the whole thread. But hey, I read it now. I think that your post was a bit too big maybe... OR is people so stupid that they think that quantity is the same like quality.
 

OysterMeister

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There's a certain point when there are so many characers in a game that people take a look at the character selection screen and go 'Eugh!' especially new players. Thirty five is probably the upper limit of what feeels like a select group of elite video-game fighters.
Well, I certainly prefer more characters. I mean, yeah, lots of characters can be intimidating for new players, I suppose. But if you're the kind of person who won't play a fighting game based soley on your fear of a character select screen, then maybe fighting games just aren't for you.
Besides, Smash is all about having fun while playing as your favorite video game character. Adding more characters just increases the chance that a player will find their favorite.
And Smash isn't like a regular fighting game, where each new character is an unknown quantity; Smash is a mascot fighter, which means that every character has been seen somewhere else. As long as you have a vague knowledge of videogames, you can probably guess the playstyle of most characters. That knowledge can take some of the sting out of a large select screen.
I say, as long as they don't unbalance the game, the more characters the merrier.
 

Andromeda

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Well, I certainly prefer more characters. I mean, yeah, lots of characters can be intimidating for new players, I suppose. But if you're the kind of person who won't play a fighting game based soley on your fear of a character select screen, then maybe fighting games just aren't for you.
Besides, Smash is all about having fun while playing as your favorite video game character. Adding more characters just increases the chance that a player will find their favorite.
And Smash isn't like a regular fighting game, where each new character is an unknown quantity; Smash is a mascot fighter, which means that every character has been seen somewhere else. As long as you have a vague knowledge of videogames, you can probably guess the playstyle of most characters. That knowledge can take some of the sting out of a large select screen.
I say, as long as they don't unbalance the game, the more characters the merrier.
Yes, of course. But maybe it would be boring with too much characters that is all the same? Maybe adding too many characters will make it harder to make it balanced between them? No, I rather choose fewer characters with a more balanced matchup then more characters that has few differences between them.
 

Red Exodus

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Balance is boring, yes a range of balance is nice but if everything is balanced things get boring. Kinda like Mario Kart 64.
 

0rion

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You're thinking of a character similar to the infamous Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat (cause he morphs) while I'm thinking around the lines of Combot from Tekken 5. There's a difference between copying and morphing.
Nintendo would be that much more gang$ta if they added a copycat character completely created from $cratch. I think he'd make a tight sub-boss, or even a good last bo$$. I'd make that character my main.

Anyways, the magic number that I'm getting is 50. Yeah, I think fifty character$ will be playable on Brawl.
 

EnFerris

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Jul 31, 2006
Messages
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Well, I certainly prefer more characters. I mean, yeah, lots of characters can be intimidating for new players, I suppose. But if you're the kind of person who won't play a fighting game based soley on your fear of a character select screen, then maybe fighting games just aren't for you.
Besides, Smash is all about having fun while playing as your favorite video game character. Adding more characters just increases the chance that a player will find their favorite.
And Smash isn't like a regular fighting game, where each new character is an unknown quantity; Smash is a mascot fighter, which means that every character has been seen somewhere else. As long as you have a vague knowledge of videogames, you can probably guess the playstyle of most characters. That knowledge can take some of the sting out of a large select screen.
I say, as long as they don't unbalance the game, the more characters the merrier.
It's not just that. Go back and read my post. No matter how innovative the developers are, it's difficult to make a ton of very differentiated characters. Heck, Melee couldn't handle 26. And... the concept of the All-Star ets diluted when there are too many characters. I want Brawl to feel like the best and brightest of video games, not every character we can think of.

This makes me wonder what's going to happen to the Super Smash Bros. Series after Brawl.
I forsee a handheld version and a few games that have gimicky gameplay before the come back to a true sequel, which will have some of the more recently inducted all-stars.
 

Croco

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Dec 21, 2006
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I just want allot of content..
40-45 characters would make me happy..
Lots of new items..
double the stages..
almost double the amount of trophies.
etc.

Thats it.. just content.
Gameplay is fine.. as long as it stays the same like Melee or gets a little better.
 

EnFerris

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Messages
274
I just want allot of content..
40-45 characters would make me happy..
Lots of new items..
double the stages..
almost double the amount of trophies.
etc.

Thats it.. just content.
Gameplay is fine.. as long as it stays the same like Melee or gets a little better.
You, sir, want a patch. You want more of the same; nothing new or exciting. You want everything to remain comfortable. Companies see people like you as big fat piggie banks. They can just churn out content without needing to innovate or improve, and you'll eat it up. You want entertainment over art. I bet you watch more hollywood than sundance and more Fox than PBS. The more developers and writers and artists pander to such sentiments, the more banal and stagnant our culture ill become.

I'm going to be mad if Brawl DOESN'T feel substantially different from Melee. I want a new game. Implicit in that is that I want polished characters. Quality over Quanitity.

P.S. I could be entirely wrong about you personall, but I tend to get pretty fired up about the state of culture in our post-industrial society, and the rant doesn't have as much punch without the second person.
 

Croco

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You, sir, want a patch. You want more of the same; nothing new or exciting. You want everything to remain comfortable. Companies see people like you as big fat piggie banks. They can just churn out content without needing to innovate or improve, and you'll eat it up. You want entertainment over art. I bet you watch more hollywood than sundance and more Fox than PBS. The more developers and writers and artists pander to such sentiments, the more banal and stagnant our culture ill become.

I'm going to be mad if Brawl DOESN'T feel substantially different from Melee. I want a new game. Implicit in that is that I want polished characters. Quality over Quanitity.

P.S. I could be entirely wrong about you personall, but I tend to get pretty fired up about the state of culture in our post-industrial society, and the rant doesn't have as much punch without the second person.
Of course I want to see a new game.
Well I really don't care if the gameplay changes.. if it gets better or completely changes I can get used to it.
Basically I want to see a Nintendo All Star WAR.
Games vs other games.. forgotten games vs new games.
so on and so on.
The multi-play is the strongest in any of the Smash Brothers games.
It is a party game.. it's meant to be entertaining.. not some life changing heavy thinking adventure. Save that for the Zelda series or Metroid series.

What else can you really do with Smash Brothers though?
Yeah.. you could add little tweaks here and there.. and focus on cut-scenes, dialog, and a story.. But why? It was born a fighting game which broke all the rules and made no sense at all. The really big change in the Smash Brothers series is the content.
More content.. means more entertainment.. more entertainment means it will last longer.
Plus adding more content allows the player or players to always have a different experience every time.

Yes.. a game like LOZ:OOT is basically a master piece.. but you can really only play it so many times and then get bored with it. It's just one long experience.. Smash Brothers has almost infinite experiences. Brawl would be a step higher if it had double the content.

So why not both?
Adventure Mode.. would be the best answer if your looking for a masterpiece experience.
So why not both quantity and quality?

Oh.. and I know what you mean by the whole industrial society stuff.. but there isn't much you can do about it. It's all about the money today.. SADLY that will be America. Oh and Japan is actually already there.. just in case you didn't know that. ;) They are actually a few steps ahead of us.
 

Infil

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Heh, EnFerris hit the nail on the head here, even though it seems he unfairly targeted Croco in a rant. People who want Melee in a new package are going to be disappointed when Brawl *does* play substantially different. They may take out "glitches" we've become accustomed to (wavedashing, perhaps). It's in their right to do this, to develop a new game with a new playstyle that will have to evolve from scratch. This is very much not a bad thing.

But, I'm not worried about this. I fully suspect the difference between Brawl and Melee will be around the same as SSB64 to Melee was. I think the speed will roughly be the same, but new techniques will make Melee skill only marginally transferrable. And this is why we play games; to get new experiences and be able to learn new techniques. Not play the same game we've already been playing for 5 years with a shiny new look.
 

PrinnyFlute

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Mar 20, 2007
Messages
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Edit: I think most of us knew that storage isn't an issue. The question here is indeed either "How many characters SHOULD be in Smash?" or "How many could they actually reasonably implement during development (without breaking the game or any major principles of good game design?)"


...You want entertainment over art. I bet you watch more hollywood than sundance and more Fox than PBS. The more developers and writers and artists pander to such sentiments, the more banal and stagnant our culture ill become...

There are millions of complacent layabouts in the world content to let everything stagnate and rot, it's true.

It bears reminding, though, that the world is also plagued with the sophomoric; utterly lacking the discretion to tell when change is right and when it is wrong.


It seems like nobody these days can appreciate the classical idea of craft. When you create, what you do is only a pretext to the grand truth of how you do it. So, y'know, if Sakurai decides to give this go all his time, effort, and soul to make Smash what he had dreamt of from the beginning (when he had practically no time to make the game, and likely less funding,) and it turns out his ideal, perfect Smash is actually a lot like Melee with worlds more polish and artistry... Well, hell yeah!


As far as the big deal over the number of characters go... Well, there are fun fighting games out there with over 75 characters, as far as I know. They can become ridiculously unbalanced, but, that's all a matter of time and effort on the part of the developer. I think it's nothing short of foolish to underestimate the talent of industry veterans, especially from us involved in the industry.

My only real 'needs' from Brawl are, though, as follows, and feel free to chime in if you feel the same:
-At least one character in any form (original, clone, or skin/outfit,) that I actually feel overjoyed about playing as. Preferably more than one, however.
-The game is relatively balanced enough so I can still PLAY as that character, and not feel completely discouraged by repeated, unreasonably losses.
-The core gameplay is at -least- as high quality and fun-to-play as Melee was.


Call me as lame as you want, but no matter how balanced the game is it's still going to cut my enjoyment a clean 40% down if I have to play as some character I feel completely indifferent about.

And yes, I honestly trust the dev team to be able to hit 40 chars reasonably, especially when you factor both the extended production period of the title. Now if they want to make those last 6-10 characters clones or remodels and spend extra time polishing other areas? Fine by me.
 

Red Exodus

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Well I'm not gonna make a huge post about the matter at hand but here's what I think.

I think people want Brawl to have changes *but* they would positive changes, not just changes for the sake of change. There will come a time where Smash will reach it's peak and too many changes will just make the game worse. That time may be now, that time make by in Brawl's time, but that time will come.
 

OysterMeister

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Make no mistake, I don't want Brawl to be the same as Melee. But I also don't want it to be different from Melee. I believe the key word that we're all searching for here is better. I want Brawl to be better than Melee, not the same, but not radicaly different either.

When it's said that Brawl should be different, as in a whole new game, that implies a significant change to the core gameplay. And this shouldn't happen. The core gameplay of Smash Bros had me playing it for years on the N64, and for even longer on the Gamecube. Sure, the gameplay underwent major refinements, some tuning up and some tweaking, but none of these things really changed the gameplay, they just made it better. The core gameplay is what's hooked me on smash all these years, and I don't want it changed.
Not to say that Brawl shouldn't play differently from Melee, because it should play differently, but only so far as improvements to the design allow. If the jump from Melee to Brawl is less than the Jump from 64 to Melee, fine. It just means Melee hit much closer to home than the original did.
And really, I don't expect the jump from Melee to Brawl to be too big, at least not in terms of the core gameplay. Which is why I want to see much greater improvements in the areas that we all know will allow it. And that's in content: Characters, levels, and modes of play (team adventure mode, anyone?).

Honestly, my only real requirements for Brawl are the same as PrinnyFlutes.
But if I could ask for more, I want as much improved and added to Melee as time and the laws of reality will allow. Hopefully, the new game thus created will be fresh and new for many more years to come.
 

Chief Mendez

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So what about online play? I'd like to see most everything touched upon on this page (at least 40 characters, a more fleshed out Adventure mode, etc.), and I generally agree with PrinnyFlute, save that I don't want to see any relicant move sets.

What's really going to change (or rather, would change), Smash in this next iteration; what's really going to set it apart from Melee, is online play. Now I know there are peole out there who would have you believe that Brawl's online functionality won't be as robust as local play...but come on.
I'm not saying it's not likely given Nintendo's abhorrence of online play and those ****ing friend codes, but if The Studio can pack every multiplayer option available offline into the online mode, Smash as we know it (well, at least multiplayer) will change forever. Imagine an online tournament mode: no more driving miles to get to the tourney you signed up for here on SmashBoards. Imagine how not bored you'd never be again. Hop online, search for random opponents, and throw down.

...But this is, of course, wishful thinking. With the confirmation of friend codes (although that doesn't stop Mario Kart DS and Hunters from allowing random opponent searches), and the lack of any real heavy-duty servers (for these hypothetical tournaments), I may just be shootin' the bull here.
 

Infil

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Geez, a bunch of posts in a row that are grammatically correct, full of intelligent words and (for the most part) correct spelling! I'm amazed. Am I on the intrablag?

Anyway, online play. The main concern is not friend codes. They will be implemented, and they will be a bit of a hassle. But people will get over it. You'll be able to play randomly (I believe every online DS game lets you play randomly, but you can't swap friend codes with random opponents), so that won't be a problem. You'll be able to play against those who you want with a bit of digit entering.

The big concern will be lag. Matches will be fun and playable, but they won't be frame-perfect like local matches, so you can bet online tournaments will be more frustrating and less prestigious. They'll happen, though, and as long as people don't expect perfect online play (which is an impossibility), they'll be entertained with what they are presented with. It won't be the best way to play tournament-level Smash, though.
 

Chief Mendez

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Geez, a bunch of posts in a row that are grammatically correct, full of intelligent words and (for the most part) correct spelling! I'm amazed. Am I on the intrablag?

Anyway, online play. The main concern is not friend codes. They will be implemented, and they will be a bit of a hassle. But people will get over it. You'll be able to play randomly (I believe every online DS game lets you play randomly, but you can't swap friend codes with random opponents), so that won't be a problem. You'll be able to play against those who you want with a bit of digit entering.

The big concern will be lag. Matches will be fun and playable, but they won't be frame-perfect like local matches, so you can bet online tournaments will be more frustrating and less prestigious. They'll happen, though, and as long as people don't expect perfect online play (which is an impossibility), they'll be entertained with what they are presented with. It won't be the best way to play tournament-level Smash, though.
DOA4 runs perfectly over Live.

Just sayin'.

Valid points raised; I'd rather see the lag-dotted 4-player match than a 2-payer restriction during online.
 

Kalmetam

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I just hate talking about a game that hasn't even been released yet... Will it get released already. Plus I don't even have a Wii yet but my friend does. Brawl will probably beat Melee in some areas like, graphics, stages (they look cool), Characters, maybe some new modes, New background characters, new moves. I don't want it to make me stop playing melee though. I think there should be about 35-50 characters. Some characters will probably be taken out....
 

Chief Mendez

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I say that 30-45 characters with some from melee taken out.
We've got to have at least 35. The huge by comparison roster change from SSB to Melee is part of what's made it so popular. Adding only five to the total would be slightly disappointing.

I do advocate the removal of certain Melee characters though: Young Link, Sheik, Pichu, G&W, and Dr. Mario aren't real integral characters (except Sheik, but he/she's been left behind by his/her own series), and were really only included as fan service.
 

Red Exodus

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I kinda liked some of the 1 player modes, hopefully we'll have double or even triple the number of event matches as well as high quality events.

I wonder if Target Test will go follow the path of board the platforms or with BtP make a return?More special Brawls [as opposed to special melee] would be nice [metal brawl anyone?].

The more features the better, but more characters [35-40] would be a nice bonus.
 

Infil

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Chief Mendez, I've heard quite differently that DOA4 is a big lagfest depending on the location of the players. It might work significantly better than other games, though. That I can't attest to.

The location of the player means everything to lag. The speed of light is only so fast; players on exactly opposite corners of the earth have, best case, something like 0.5 seconds worth of lag between them simply due to speed of light delays. Saying an online game works perfectly (down to the frame) is a strict physical impossibility. Playing with people in the same time zone, though, might be fully tolerable online if it's done well enough.
 

Tiamat

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Smash Bros is first and foremost a fanservice party concept. More characters = more fanservice and more party. Ergo, the more the merrier, says I!

....well, even then, it's possible to get too much of anything, so I'd set an UPPER limit at 50. Tons of trash characters that no one likes slapped in there for the sake of saying "We have 100 characters now!" will make the party begin to feel like a drag. And lead to stuff like "Dammit, where the hell is Mario on this character select screen?"

That said, I'm hoping for 40 characters but only cautiously optimistic. We might end up with even less than Melee if Sakurai's programming and developing characters at the rate he's announcing them to the public. NEWCOMER: FOX!!!!!!!1
 

Falling Whistness

Smash Apprentice
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May 15, 2006
Messages
196
Really it's not a matter of memory capacity, but of developer time and balance. This game has had a lot of time, but I think that time is going to be spent on refining the game and its mechanics rather than just adding more content. But I do agree that 35 is the magic number. I would be shocked if there are 40, and disappointed if there are less than 30. I think people who say 50 are deluding themselves, and setting themselves up for massive disappointment.
 

Bowserlick

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The range is probably going to be 32 to 37 characters with 35 characters as the target goal for the developing team. And this means to pave the way for new fighters there are going to have to be many cuts.

It is harder to accept cuts in Smash compared to other fighting games, because each fighter is a mascot with a predetermined history usually years in the making. But in order to keep the game fresh with fun play and new exciting moves, new characters will have to boot out old ones.

These list below is comprised of the fighters I think will stay. That doesn’t mean I necessarily want the other ones out of the game.

The Returnees

1. Mario: Confirmed in! Mario is Nintendo’s mascot. He is the Jack of All Trades
who has a multitude of tools in his arsenal. Fireball Projectiles, a Reflecting Cape, Multiple ways of Recovering, and even a Meteor Smash. His moves are not the best in each designated category, but they are diverse enough to allow him to capitalize on his enemy’s weakness.

In Brawl it seems like he will pack more of a punch and be able to KO with his aerial fist as well as send screaming characters plummeting into a chasm.

2. Peach: Sakurai mentioned briefly the lack of female characters. So it is doubtful that he will remove the most famous of Nintendo ladies from the roster.

Peach’s move set is all over the place. And she was made too powerful. How can they fix this? My idea is replacing her B move (pulling out a helpless Toad to counter any moves aimed at her) with the ability to gain a random emotion from her latest game. Happy, Sad, Calm, and Enraged. Maybe this way she can only float when she is happy, runs faster when she is sad, pulls better Turnips when she is Calm, and gains her ridiculous Down Smash when she is angry.

3. Bowser: Just as you cannot take Nintendo’s mascot out of an All Star Nintendo game, you cannot remove Nintendo’s villain even despite his performance in Melee.

Bowser should be designed as a tank. He should not flinch during small attacks and be able to reduce stun time from hits against him. His Forward Smash and Down B should go through shields. With even a few changes, Bowser can have the huge and fearsome presence he deserves while maintaining his lumbering walk and laggy jumps.

4. DK: DK is the mobile heavyweight. He trades ridiculous power for some speed, jump height, and the awesome ability to store a smash move and release it whenever he desires (the Windup Punch). Not to mention that he can carry his enemies around.

He doesn’t need much improvement. DK should maintain his reputation as the mobile heavyweight with some tweaking to make him a little more competitive. An idea (not really one that improves him, but a fun idea nonetheless) is having the hairy ape reach out on both sides of his brutish body while grabbing so there is a chance he can grab two opponents at once, smash them together over his head, and then toss them away.

5. Captain Falcon:
Smash is great because a character can come from any genre. Captain Falcon represents the racing world with a loud and awesome move set. He will stay.

His knee can lose some power, but otherwise Captain Falcon should become louder and more flamboyant in the execution of his moves.

6. Link:
Confirmed to Return. Link is right under Mario in popularity as Nintendo’s mascot. He is not going anywhere.

Link really just needs slightly less lag on some moves and more range to justify lag length on other sword swiping moves. And judging by the video Link does get more range and less lag time.

7. Zelda: Zelda is in Peach’s league as a famous Nintendo princess.

I am convinced that Sheik will not return, mainly because of Zamus’s presence. Therefore, I think Zelda will be mostly remade with a different fighting style then the previous game. Perhaps reflecting Twilight Princess, at least in design.

8. Gannondorf:
Gannondorf got gypped out of a unique move set. So this time around I expect him to have moves from his own games and perhaps a kick *** sword.

I expect Gannondorf to play similar to his Melee version just with different visuals pertaining toward his moves. I think he will be a slow fighter with laughable jumping skills but immense power and good range.

9. Yoshi: With a stage already seen in a trailer and with his popularity, I am sure Yoshi is a shoe in.

Yoshi has a very entertaining play style. He just needs some tweaks, such as having useful throws. But I hope if any new mechanics are introduced (such as crawling) Yoshi will get a weird take on the technique (such as a bizarre double jump and an odd way of shielding).

10. Kirby: Confirmed in! There has been a rumor that Jiggs was not originally going to be in Melee. I am not quite sure if this is true, but I do not think she will be in the next game. I suspect that there will only be two puffs and those will be Kirby and Metaknight.

I also think that Kirby will be the stronger of the puffs while Metaknight will take Jiggs aerial superiority. (In the trailer Metaknight can glide at a descending angle, perhaps a new take on Jigg’s Pound). So I expect Kirby to be more like he was in the Original Smash.

11. Pikachu: Confirmed to Return. Pikachu is the forefront figure of Pokemon, a very successful franchise. There was no way he was getting the boot.

Pikachu will probably adapt a play style in between his Original version and the one in Melee. I expect him to have a hit and run style in the air and a powerful array of Smashes on the ground.

12. Mewtwo: He is almost as popular as Pikachu and with a very successful franchise (Like Mario and Link) it is a shame to have the mascot, but not the villain.

Mewtwo was designed to be evasive. And I think this is the way to go, but his stats were below average in many categories and half his special attacks (which I think should be his bread and butter) were weak. I see Mewtwo as a tricky character who uses his psychic powers to slowly weaken his opponent (not necessarily by raising his percentage) until he can out power and out maneuver his enemy.

Example: Disable, instead of stunning the opponent, it should randomly turn off an A move when it connects. This should last until the enemy loses a stock or Mewtwo uses disable again. So Mewtwo’s strategy could be evading the enemy until he finally disables a useful move. Then he can press the attack.

13. Fox: Confirmed in! The Starfox franchise is gaining popularity once more and Fox is such a popular Smash contender.

The problem with Fox is that he has too many advantages. He acts like a heavy character (at least vertically), has many recovery opportunities, has an offensive and defensive reflector, has quick powerful Smashes, combo starting throws, agility, and speed. The designers need to pick two categories they want to excel Fox in and ease him into his niche with appropriate moves. Therefore, they do not have to nerf his reflector if other advantages are either toned down or removed.

14. Marth: I never liked Roy and Marth. Their moves seem boring. But taking Marth away would be taking away a very unique and elegant move set. And the down B and Toward B moves were very clever.

Marth also represents a strategy game and the more genres of Nintendo’s great history that are represented the better. Marth can afford to lose some of his range and some power from his sword. It is sad that Marth’s fast, long ranged Smash can have more KO power then Bowser’s slow, laggy, short ranged Smash.

15. Ness/ Lucas?: From Sakurai’s hints that Lucas was intended to replace Ness, I am not sure that Ness will actually return. But if he doesn’t, I strongly suspect Lucas will be nothing more then a skin and name change, with maybe a couple different moves.

Lucas and Ness do not seem different enough to warrant separate characters. But either way Earthbound will have one of its main characters as a representative.

16. Samus: Confirmed on Sakurai’s website to return.

It seems that Samus might have a morph ability in Zamus. Sakurai’s statement is vague enough where Zamus could be a morph or that Zamus could be a different character on the select screen. Regardless, Samus needs very little tweaking in my opinion.

Yes I do think a lot of characters will be cut. But then again Sakurai said this time around he is going for originality (no clones), balance, and even suggested that Luigi may not return. There is also going to be a robust adventure mode and it seems like very detailed stages.

Even with the generous time and resources Sakurai has been given, I cannot see the roster exceeding 37. But lets say Sakurai only keeps 16 characters. 5 new ones are confirmed. The total is now up to 21. Let us say 2 guest third party characters will be added. 23. If 35 is our target number we can only add 13 characters. And this is with shameless cutting of characters.
 

Chief Mendez

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Wow, that was one helluva' post, my friend.

That's about what I expect where characters are concerned.


Anyhoo.
Infil: DOA's never given me problems, but then again: nobody's perfect.
In any case, you can fix lag by locking 4-man multiplayer to individual regions, and limiting it to two globally.
 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
People are being way to conservative on how many characters they think will be cut. The most common assumption is that only Roy, Pichu, Dr. Mario, and in some cases Young Link will go.

Smash can pay homage to more characters (while giving them a moveset they deserve) if they cut one shot characters out.

What is an example of a one shot character?

I think G&W is a perfect example. Fun guy, bizarre but he was a throwback to a handheld game people hardly remembered when he came into the ring.

The Ice Climbers are as well. Duo fighting should be given to a team of characters but there are new ones to pick such as Olimar and perhaps Diddy/Dixie.
 

Paranoid_Android

Smash Lord
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Where that boomerang came from
Disc size is irrelevant, and so is the power of the Wii (which is now comparatively weak, set against PC's, the Xbox 360, and the PS3). What must be considered is development time, and how much goes into a single character.
 

Infil

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
357
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I can't imagine Luigi being cut; same with Jigglypuff and Ness. All of the original SSB64 fighters will return. It's essentially Smash tradition at this point. Plus, Jigglypuff has a very unique moveset, topped off with Rest. I can't see them eliminating her.

I also agree on some fronts, though. I think it's likely ICs will be cut and another team will replace them (maybe the Babies from Mario & Luigi RPGs?). The swordsmen (Marth, Roy) almost didn't even make it into the US Melee, so Nintendo probably saw them as throwaway characters with derivative movesets. They'll probably be replaced with similar characters, but different names and appearance. If you're looking to have 35ish characters, though, you really can't drop a ton of the Melee guys. Characters like Falco probably have to stay.

I also don't think Mewtwo has a great chance at returning. There are other "newer" lead Pokemon that may be better choices now (Deoxys, perhaps), plus Mewtwo seemed a bit of a throwaway in the last game. He was very unique, though, so perhaps they'll keep him and add another Pokemon too.

Chief Mendez: We're probably splitting hairs at this point, but you can never say "fix lag". I understand the semantics of your post, though. However, I don't believe limiting regions is the way to go about it. I say you should let players play whomever they want, and just let them decide how much lag they can tolerate.
 

Tsukuyomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
279
The"How many characters does it take to satisfy the consumer?" thread...

Well for me, I'm happy if they got 20 characters in the game... In most fighting games, the numbers doesn't really exceed over 30 (heck, a lot doesn't even exceed 20)... You have to note that they have the power to control how they want to create the game... They could even make a roster of only the official stated character and make you buy expansions or download other characters if they want to, and it's very much is possible... If they say they are aiming for 40, then they could aim at it, but it doesn't say that they will actually go for it... So, there is no point into worrying about how many character there will be...
 

Zeee

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
352
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East Orange NJ
Shiek WILL BE IN BRAWL.
I will call the head developer of the game and threaten him/her if she doesn't make it into the game.

Since Shiek's in Zelda's in so..... im guessing they're going to put in like 60 characters.
 

Starmanclock

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
181
Location
Michigan
NNID
Fangzthewolf
Shiek WILL BE IN BRAWL.
I will call the head developer of the game and threaten him/her if she doesn't make it into the game.

Since Shiek's in Zelda's in so..... im guessing they're going to put in like 60 characters.
I feel that Zero Suit Samus will replace Shiek, but I have to say 40 - 60 characters will be in the game.
 

DarkFr0g

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
100
Location
Chicago, Illinois
It depends how many maps there will be. From the looks of it, they're hella lot bigger (Metaknight's and Marth's level) Compared to that, one level should equal like 10 characters. With all the textures and models and everything, each character should take up 15mb max. There is like 15gb on a Wii disc.

The real question is how many characters is Sakurai willing to DESIGN. I personally wouldn't mind 500, as long as they're all even.
 

EnFerris

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Messages
274
I can't imagine Luigi being cut; same with Jigglypuff and Ness. All of the original SSB64 fighters will return. It's essentially Smash tradition at this point.

[...]

Characters like Falco probably have to stay.

[...]

I also don't think Mewtwo has a great chance at returning. There are other "newer" lead Pokemon that may be better choices now (Deoxys, perhaps), plus Mewtwo seemed a bit of a throwaway in the last game.
For one thing, two games doesn't make any sort of tradition. Rumour has it that Ness was barely in Melee, so the sanctity of the original twelve is seriously in doubt. But your odd belief in two games worth of tradition is especally troubling when juxtaposed with your lack of respect for the eleven years during which Mewtwo has dominated the public perceotion of Pokemon along with Pikachu. Out with the old in one case and never changing in another. Check out my list. I've cut out Falco and other characters, and it was really hard to whittle it down to thirty five.

People are being way to conservative on how many characters they think will be cut. The most common assumption is that only Roy, Pichu, Dr. Mario, and in some cases Young Link will go.

Smash can pay homage to more characters (while giving them a moveset they deserve) if they cut one shot characters out.

What is an example of a one shot character?

I think G&W is a perfect example. Fun guy, bizarre but he was a throwback to a handheld game people hardly remembered when he came into the ring.

The Ice Climbers are as well. Duo fighting should be given to a team of characters but there are new ones to pick such as Olimar and perhaps Diddy/Dixie.
THANK YOU. Other than the biggest stars (Mario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, Fox, Kirby, Donkey Kong) no one is entirely safe. There are about nine or ten more characters that shouldn't leave, but Smash is going to need to start cycling through characters if they're going to keep the series fresh.
 

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,161
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Somewhere
Sheik won't be returning (I'm with Starmanclock), Wii discs are 9GB (and that's with both sides full), and EnFerris: that list isn't that great.

Infil: works for me. I only wonder how Nintedo would handle that ("Worldwide Brawl: WARNING! Latency Issues May Occur")...
 

SSoH

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
388
Location
Chicago, Illinois
I think it's very likely to be between 30 characters and 40, with a possibility of up to 45.

I'm not saying there definitely WON'T be over 45, it just seems a bit unlikely, right?
 

Genesis Zero

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
23
For one thing, two games doesn't make any sort of tradition. Rumour has it that Ness was barely in Melee, so the sanctity of the original twelve is seriously in doubt. But your odd belief in two games worth of tradition is especally troubling when juxtaposed with your lack of respect for the eleven years during which Mewtwo has dominated the public perceotion of Pokemon along with Pikachu. Out with the old in one case and never changing in another. Check out my list. I've cut out Falco and other characters, and it was really hard to whittle it down to thirty five.



THANK YOU. Other than the biggest stars (Mario, Link, Pikachu, Samus, Fox, Kirby, Donkey Kong) no one is entirely safe. There are about nine or ten more characters that shouldn't leave, but Smash is going to need to start cycling through characters if they're going to keep the series fresh.

There are many newcomes on your list that I just cant see in the new game. The Star Fox series isnt doing to hot anymore if im not mistaken (correct me if im wrong, I havent played since 64) So I dont see Wolf O'Donnel in there. Captain Olimar was lame in my opinion, I cant even THINK of a move set. Mii is way to general of a character. Megaman would be tight and so would Dedede. Also, Skull Kid in my opinion would make a great new competitor. Other than that the list looks good.

(Though I think Ridley would be to big and I have no idea who Little Mac is...)
 

Chief Mendez

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Joined
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Messages
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Yeah, tell him. That list isn't any good, especially when Ferris was just complaining about whittling the roster down to only the necessary players.
 

Genesis Zero

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
23
That was Ferris's list in his sig. I would like to see Skull Kid, Sonic, Megaman, Dedede, Raiden (complain all you like MGS2 haters, he was a rookie and played the character well), Diddy, Gorons, Zoras, Dekus (Cause im a Zelda Fan) and Cyborg Ninja. I wanted to keep the list at a slightly possible angle, tho all the Zelda characters probably wont make it, if any.
 

Kalmetam

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
282
Location
alphace area L
That was Ferris's list in his sig. I would like to see Skull Kid, Sonic, Megaman, Dedede, Raiden (complain all you like MGS2 haters, he was a rookie and played the character well), Diddy, Gorons, Zoras, Dekus (Cause im a Zelda Fan) and Cyborg Ninja. I wanted to keep the list at a slightly possible angle, tho all the Zelda characters probably wont make it, if any.
If were to choose someone to choose in this game it would be Shadow. Sorry but he is so cool! I want him to make it, if there was a clone of sonic if he makes the game, it better be Shadow (or else it'd probably be knuckles but he's cool too) Don't mention more names, I know there is more hedgehogs....

Think of it, Nintendo added like 12 more characters to melee than there was in the regular game. It'd be disappointing if they only add like 4 more people, I mean come on. There could atleast be 35 ( I have a feeling they'll be more though ).
 
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