Smash 3DS How "Limiting" is the 3DS? - Kotaku Article

[GiantBoyDetective]

Little write up I did over at the Kotaku TAY blog about the power of the 3DS. Love to know peoples thoughts on the matter. Also, feel free to fact check any of my info, I'm not 100% on all the figures (though I am about most of them)

Clickith here for the article.

Thanks in advance to anyone who take the time to read or give feedback.

 

[IsmaR]

You summed up my feelings pretty well on the matter. People just love to grasp at the straws.

 

[GiantBoyDetective]

You summed up my feelings pretty well on the matter. People just love to grasp at the straws.

Thanks. Let's hope Nintendo is smart about the whole thing.

 

[Superyoshiom]

An interesting read, you definitely emphasized some points that needed to be shared. I look forward to seeing more soon.

 

[DonkaFjord]

I like how people dont realize in Brawl that a large portion of space was occupied by SSE and music, though it was a mess to begin with. I don't get how people think the fighters take up the most space. I mean in any game the characters are small fry compared to other stuff.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Fantastic article, I may have to link this when people ask about the 3DS version in the future. :D

 

[nat pagle]

A.) Brawl had extensive memory taken up by music and SSE cutscenes. Sakurai could save some memory on those.

B.) Only the rosters are going to be the same. We don't know if the Wii U is more extensive or not.

C.) Wii U is probably further in development. People can say that "oh, the Wii U version could have been much better without 3DS slowing down development!", but Sakurai clearly doesn't go over the top with developing the game, or else he'd have to keep adding or it would be "held back".

 

[Jim_Puff]

I really enjoyed this article, thanks for the fantastic read!

 

[Oniric Spriter]

Wow, how can people even think about that, lmao. If the 3DS had limitations than the new X & Y wouldn't be able to handle over 649 Pokémon models + characters and their attack animations, 200 pieces of soundtrack as Masuda stated etc. I remember I saw somewhere that the digital version will take only 2.6Gb of space so yeah, 3DS could easily handle over 40 fighters, that's not really a big deal.

Nice article, people needed to know that stuff.

 

[SmasherP82]

love this article bro. plus since brawls memory was literally all music and SSE I'm sure we can get some cool stuff on the 3DS version :D

 

[GiantBoyDetective]

Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback!

Glad that folks like it so much they're showing others. Seemed like some good info to share

 

[SmasherP82]

Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback!

Glad that folks like it so much they're showing others. Seemed like some good info to share

no prob bro that's what were here for ;D

 

[GiantBoyDetective]

Oh wow, looks like Kotaku actually pushed it to the front page. Exposure! Amazing.

 

[SmasherP82]

Kotaku can be trusted sometimes and it can be really good for news.........uhhh brb I think my brother is raging I can hear yelling.

 

[BaPr]

I doubt space is a problem. Sakurai added so much stuff to the Kid Icarus game, and it was for the 3DS. He could put anything he wants in the 3DS version and it will never be too much.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I'm nervous about roster being smaller than Brawl, is that true?

 

[BaPr]

I don't think so. If it were true, I doubt it would be the 3DS's fault though. Nice article by the way Giant.

 

[Deleted member]

At first I was nervous about the roster size being limited because of the 3DS, but I started to worry less when I heard that the adventure mode won't be as expansive as the SSE which gives more space (now that there isn't a story mode, this is a good thing in my opinion). I personally believe that we will get a roster that is just as big as Brawl... maybe even slightly bigger. Anyways, thanks for this article and I'll be sure to link it to some naysayers!

 

[Xigger]

Tekken 3D Prime - 41 fighters

Tekken 3D Prime was created on a 2 gig cartridge

3DS games cartridges can hold from 1 to 8 gigs of data

I hoped that article would have touched up on what really matters: not storage memory but active memory. 8 gigs of storage data can hold a lot, but what Sakurai was really referring to was reducing characters' memory footprints. High-poly characters and characters with a lot of scripts or props are the biggest targets.

Not less characters, but.... less OF characters.

Memory footprint. Spread that around.

 

[DonkaFjord]

I hoped that article would have touched up on what really matters: not storage memory but active memory. 8 gigs of storage data can hold a lot, but what Sakurai was really referring to was reducing characters' memory footprints. High-poly characters and characters with a lot of scripts or props are the biggest targets.

Not less characters, but.... less OF characters.

Memory footprint. Spread that around.

Some people did mention that characters themselves could be decreased in ways and not a decrease of characters but people seemed to brush them off.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Despite not seeing him at all in a 3DS screen shot I'm pretty certain Olimar is the first character to be altered due to the 3DS.

 

[Xigger]

Some people did mention that characters themselves could be decreased in ways and not a decrease of characters but people seemed to brush them off.

It's probably because it's a more complicated subject. Not everyone knows about polycount, CPU cycles, extra face/body models, or even basic programming. Also, since it only applies to the few characters using the most resources the first thought that comes to mind is to remove or hamper them rather than make them more efficient. Ice Climbers, Olimar, and perhaps but probably not Pokemon Trainer, are the only real issues due to multiple characters.

Oh, and Brawl modders can shed some light: each alternate costume is a different file altogether. 4 Olimars have the same model, but is loaded in memory 4 times (Pikmin included) with different textures. Reducing that inefficiency to reuse the same model whenever possible would reduce the memory usage to a quarter of the space. Cases like Wario and Pikachu may use a different model for all 4 characters anyways, but for the actual cases where memory would be a problem (Olimar, Ice Climbers, Pokemon Trainer) there are no separate models. But I'm no 3DS programmer, these are just educated guesses.

Despite not seeing him at all in a 3DS screen shot I'm pretty certain Olimar is the first character to be altered due to the 3DS.

That may be true. I could certainly imagine Pikmin behaving in a more static, simple way to save on CPU speed.

 

[BlitznBurst]

People don't realise that the "3DS limitations" was referring to specific mechanics that they might be unable to implement, not the size of the roster. The roster size is fine, just specific characters may have to be cut due to being too difficult to implement on the 3DS. It has nothing to do with memory - 3DS cartridges have plenty of space. It's the same thing with Olimar - people are like "Oh, he must only have three due to limitation." It does not work like that. (just fyi, i'm talking specifically about the limitations argument, not the "olimar has 3 pikmin" one - I have no intention of starting that again)

 

[SmasherP82]

People don't realise that the "3DS limitations" was referring to specific mechanics that they might be unable to implement, not the size of the roster. The roster size is fine, just specific characters may have to be cut due to being too difficult to implement on the 3DS. It has nothing to do with memory - 3DS cartridges have plenty of space. It's the same thing with Olimar - people are like "Oh, he must only have three due to limitation." It does not work like that. (just fyi, i'm talking specifically about the limitations argument, not the "olimar has 3 pikmin" one - I have no intention of starting that again)

Thank goodness we have people like you :'D

 

[Wario Bros.]

Great read. Yeah, the 3DS is more powerful than people are thinking it is. And it's not going to hinder the Wii U game's potential either. Sakurai's Kid Icarus: Uprising is lengthy, VERY deep in content, and great graphics and yet the cartridge size is only 2 GB. Let's look at the file size of past consoles and the Super Smash Bros. game they had on them:

Nintendo 64:
Cartridge size limit: 64 MB
Size of SSB 64: 11.95 MB (18.7% possible memory used). 12 characters (+ 15 non playables).
Keep in mind that Smash 64 was a low budget game so the game could've been much bigger in content and better graphics if it had a larger budget.

Nintendo GameCube:
Disc size limit: 1.5 GB
Size of SSB Melee: 1.36 GB (90.7% possible memory used). 26 characters (+ 6 non playables)

Wii:
Disc size limit: 8.5 GB
Size of SSB Brawl: 7.92 GB (93.2% possible memory used). 40 characters (+ 4 non playables)
As many already posted, the music and Subspace Emissary took up a very large majority of the disc memory.

Nintendo 3DS:
Card size limit: 8 GB

Wii U:
Disc size limit: 25 GB

So if you worried about file size on the 3DS Smash game, then you're overreacting.

 

[BaPr]

Great read. Yeah, the 3DS is more powerful than people are thinking it is. And it's not going to hinder the Wii U game's potential either. Sakurai's Kid Icarus: Uprising is lengthy, VERY deep in content, and great graphics and yet the cartridge size is only 2 GB. Let's look at the file size of past consoles and the Super Smash Bros. game they had on them:

Nintendo 64:
Cartridge size limit: 64 MB
Size of SSB 64: 11.95 MB (18.7% possible memory used). 12 characters (+ 15 non playables).
Keep in mind that Smash 64 was a low budget game so the game could've been much bigger in content and better graphics if it had a larger budget.

Nintendo GameCube:
Disc size limit: 1.5 GB
Size of SSB Melee: 1.36 GB (90.7% possible memory used). 26 characters (+ 6 non playables)

Wii:
Disc size limit: 8.5 GB
Size of SSB Brawl: 7.92 GB (93.2% possible memory used). 40 characters (+ 4 non playables)
As many already posted, the music and Subspace Emissary took up a very large majority of the disc memory.

Nintendo 3DS:
Card size limit: 8 GB

Wii U:
Disc size limit: 25 GB

So if you worried about file size on the 3DS Smash game, then you're overreacting.

I think we are gonna have to cut down the roster to half the size because it is so limited
Anyways, thanks for this. I can't believe that Kid Icarus was only 2 GB with all the stuff added in. Makes you realize how much stuff could be put in Smash 3DS.

 

[SmasherP82]

it was only 2GB.......wow I'd expect it to be higher O_o

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

It's probably because it's a more complicated subject. Not everyone knows about polycount, CPU cycles, extra face/body models, or even basic programming. Also, since it only applies to the few characters using the most resources the first thought that comes to mind is to remove or hamper them rather than make them more efficient. Ice Climbers, Olimar, and perhaps but probably not Pokemon Trainer, are the only real issues due to multiple characters.

Oh, and Brawl modders can shed some light: each alternate costume is a different file altogether. 4 Olimars have the same model, but is loaded in memory 4 times (Pikmin included) with different textures. Reducing that inefficiency to reuse the same model whenever possible would reduce the memory usage to a quarter of the space. Cases like Wario and Pikachu may use a different model for all 4 characters anyways, but for the actual cases where memory would be a problem (Olimar, Ice Climbers, Pokemon Trainer) there are no separate models. But I'm no 3DS programmer, these are just educated guesses.

That may be true. I could certainly imagine Pikmin behaving in a more static, simple way to save on CPU speed.

This, especially Zelda/Sheik, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, and other characters that transform.

 

[BaPr]

I have definitely learned some stuff from reading this thread.

 

[JbrockPony]

Thanks for the post! Im not that worried. 8gb should be enough for 3DS Smash. Plus since they are going to be different versions optimizing stuff for the 3DS would be less of a load because porting console stages to the 3DS isn't happening.
Thus, leaves more wiggle room for stages well suited for 3DS while leaving the Wii U version to have nice graphical stages and other bigger features.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Thanks for the post! Im not that worried. 8gb should be enough for 3DS Smash. Plus since they are going to be different versions optimizing stuff for the 3DS would be less of a load because porting console stages to the 3DS isn't happening.
Thus, leaves more wiggle room for stages well suited for 3DS while leaving the Wii U version to have nice graphical stages and other bigger features.

I wouldn't be surprised if Smash 3D will use 2 GB as well. Heck, Pokémon X & Y are going to be 1.7 GB each (and we're talking about something with about over 800+ animated Pokémon models plus full 3D maps and characters.)

 

[SmasherP82]

Oh my glob 3DS cartridge is OP

 

[JbrockPony]

I wouldn't be surprised if Smash 3D will use 2 GB as well. Heck, Pokémon X & Y are going to be 1.7 GB each (and we're talking about something with about over 800+ animated Pokémon models plus full 3D maps and characters.)

My reaction to that would be priceless if he did that! xD

 

[SmasherP82]

My reaction to that would be priceless if he did that! xD

I'm saying it again 3DS Cartridge is OP.

 

[BJN39]

Personally I find it silly that people think Smash would be limited on the 3ds.

I mean come on, they made animal crossing New leaf for crying out loud! That is the definition of TONS of data. > _ >

 

[nat pagle]

Personally I find it silly that people think Smash would be limited on the 3ds.

I mean come on, they made animal crossing New leaf for crying out loud! That is the definition of TONS of data. > _ >

Monster Hunter would probably be the best example of memory use, just look at the graphics and the game itself.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

why would anyone sane/sober/who doesn't suffer from Stockholm syndrome buy a 3DS in the first place?

 

[nat pagle]

why would anyone sane/sober/who doesn't suffer from Stockholm syndrome buy a 3DS in the first place?

Because it's fun, portable, 3D, and has a library.

If you want to say it's stupid to buy it, at least tell us why.

 

[Deathconsciousness]

cuz it's not a good console

 

[Ghostbone]

Everyone knows the 3DS cartridges can hold lots of data (enough for Brawl, even, which is heavily bloated with unimportant stuff).
It's whether the 3DS itself has the processing power to run a proper 4th gen Smash game, and how development time spent on the 3DS hinders the console version.

Would the 3DS really be able to handle 4 player Olimar matches with heaps of items on a moving stage (or just a stage with a super detailed background similar to Lylat, or with reflections like Fountain of Dreams)? If it doesn't, would that mean that Olimar has to be limited (less pikmin or something) to make sure he works well enough? What about transforming characters/stages and load times, will they be feasible? This is stuff that would hinder possibilities on the WiiU since the characters/items will very likely remain identical across the systems.

A smash game can be made on the 3DS, obviously, it's questionable what the quality will be and how much it will hold back the WiiU version.