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How is Wolf good against Falco?

Ookami-kun

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
882
I've seen a lot of people saying Falco is better. I for one use both but still prefer Wolf (I prefer few solid hits instead of doing multiple damage).

They said Wolf would've been better if Falco didn't have a chain-grab, but AFAIK Wolf can survive CGs.
 

HOHO420

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
152
Location
Port Chester,NY
I think wolf is better than falco. Wolf is stronger, and has a sweet f-smash. Falco's f-smash doesn't come out as quick,and you can sometimes tell when its coming. The only plus side of falco that I BELIEVE is his reflector and his blaster. Other than that, I would have to go with wolf.
 

GreyWolfii

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
29
Location
Chicago,Illie
well me and my two friends have a cute little spacie rivalry goin on where the better one(chaingrabbing falco) the lacky (melee fox mainer) and myself (u guessed it)...

i really have to say that the falco user of my group made me waay better~

i was at his house for 2 hours...all of which was falco ownage...he sheild grabbed, quick turn grabbed, side-step grabbed, even grabbed me out the air...all at 0-20%s...all Chingrabs...and when he does it...i fell a little broken on the inside, an before i know it, im Daird off the stage....

after losing +3 to -5, i left sad...

then came back the next day(yesterday) and after a little metaknight ownin(vs his Marth) i leveled up by adding a couple few points to my mindgame stat~

i basically started approaching him with attacks that wont leave me grabbed after execution (basically lagless attacks) especially before reaching 40%

for the most part..it worked! i was back to winning against him and grew alot of confidence vs chaingrabbing characters..unfortunatly that means alot of the shooting 'mindgame' but its either that or insta 50% damage on my end....



so basically if youre worried about compairing yourself(wolf mainer) to a good(or maybe decent) falco user just know that wolf can seriously take on a falco no prob...just...well...dont get too cocky....WAIT...no...

play your cards right and play them safely
 

everlasting yayuhzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
2,876
Location
swaggin' to da maxxx
I would have to say that Falco has the advantage in this match up. Chain grab to dash attack cancel upsmash ***** Wolf's face entirely too hard. It's a 70% headstart on every single stock. Falco's lasers are insane, and his shine is really gay when it comes to spacing. I think Falco just has it a lot easier in this matchup than Wolf does, which is why I give the advantage to him.
 

dream theater

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
58
Falco is just faster, if the player likes to dodge alot, what I do is downsmash and then they don't expect it and they keep trying and so I end up beating them.
 

Juggalo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
215
Falco is better than Wolf in my opinion, but that doesn't mean that this matchup gives Falco the advantage.
 

Ace83

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
215
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
looks to me like he was just saying that he thought falco was better overall, and didn't comment on the matchup advantage.
 

Juggalo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
215
Yeah, it was a "Falco's the better character, but the match could easily go either way" sort of remark.
 

the_powner

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Messages
33
Location
behind you
Falco has the advantage but you just gotta play smart if your a good wolf user youll avoid the chain grab about 80% of the time
 

snadmonkey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
216
Location
WV
Falco only has a chance because of chain grab. Other than that wolf pretty much ***** him.
 

White_Lightning

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
239
Location
Washington State
I played against a Falco player for the first time the other day. I don't remember how many matches we had, but I think I won just a little less than half of them.

The chaingrabs are definitely a pain, so watch out for them. However, I think Falco is a bit over-reliant on them. Once you reach around 60% he can't do them anymore. One thing I noticed during our matches was that he had a lot of trouble KOing me, usually I was above 160% before he finally got me, while I was able to KO him much earlier.
 

XeroHarsh

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
282
Location
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
What I like to do to my friend kevins falco, is down tilt to shine, fun fun =D

Chain grabs are fairly easy to avoid, I tend to get a shine in after 2-3 of them, then down smash him or f-tilt.


Falco -0
wolf -1

my foot *****.
 

Kenrawr

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,941
Location
Woodbridge, VA
Falco has the advantage but you just gotta play smart if your a good wolf user youll avoid the chain grab about 80% of the time
And these statistics come from where!?

I like to play the platforms as wolf to try and avoid being grabbed... but no matter what you're vulnerable to a shield grab...
A falco can outcamp a wolf... he's faster, has more finishers, and can combo better.

Sorry, but falco>wolf =[
 

dream theater

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
58
Falco is weak I play really good falcos and if I am able to avoid whatever these 'chaingrabs' are then there is no way in hell they can get me, wolf is almost as quick, 2x more powerful.

wolf>falco
 

Kenrawr

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,941
Location
Woodbridge, VA
If these "really good falcos" really are "really good falcos", why can't they do a simple chain grab?

Especially one that can 0-death.

Edit: You also say if you can avoid being chain grabbed.

Wolf can easily be shield grabbed... and don't even think about trying to out camp a falco :O
 

dream theater

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
58
wth, I asked if you could explain what a chaingrab was..

nevermind I know what it is, they try and grab me all the time and they never get me because I
can dodge really well. also the mid-air grab doesn't always work, because i DI one way then I sideb the other making them have to chase me and giving me time for recovery then I can dodge back and fsmash them or dsmash.
 

dream theater

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
58
It happens with D3 to me all the time too.

There is a split second where you can get out of it, you have to dodge behind them though, because chances are you're probably too close to the edge so they'll be able to grab you again.
 

Kenrawr

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,941
Location
Woodbridge, VA
No, there is no DI for D3's grab, it's an infinite.

But can D3 meteor you at the end of it?
D3 can chain you consistently whatever your damage is, but falco can kill you when you're fresh.

I'd rather face a D3 with wolf than a falco any day.

Plus, what does D3 have to do with this? It's Falco Vs. Wolf :3
 

everlasting yayuhzz

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
2,876
Location
swaggin' to da maxxx
wth, I asked if you could explain what a chaingrab was..

nevermind I know what it is, they try and grab me all the time and they never get me because I
can dodge really well. also the mid-air grab doesn't always work, because i DI one way then I sideb the other making them have to chase me and giving me time for recovery then I can dodge back and fsmash them or dsmash.
Wrong. You can't get out of it. At least not until the correct %. The Falcos you are playing just aren't doing it correctly.
 

Kenrawr

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,941
Location
Woodbridge, VA
Wrong. You can't get out of it. At least not until the correct %. The Falcos you are playing just aren't doing it correctly.
Really? Is there a certain percentage that wolf can start DI'ing away from D3? D3's I face always take me up into the 160's x_X Of course I get smart and switch to marth though. x]

Dream... you just saying that proves you don't know what you're talking about =[
Bottom line, don't play wolf vs. a falco. You'll thank me someday :O
 

dream theater

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
58
no, i've been in a chaingrab and I played some random kid I added who was constantly doing it to me, i managed to get myself right out of the chaingrab when he was about to grab me and i was right near the edge as well, although it was probably lucky and it is very hard to do, we know it can work.
 

Kenrawr

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,941
Location
Woodbridge, VA
Well, if it's online there's always the delay. Maybe he couldn't chain grab properly with it.

Honestly, I wish I were you. I'd love to have match ups against people who don't know how to change grab.
 

Kenrawr

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,941
Location
Woodbridge, VA
If there was no delay that just means he can't cg.
Just down the street? That's convenient, a "random" competitive smasher.... living next door.

I guess I can't convince you, I'm done with this thread.
Later :3
 

chaos_Leader

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
1,035
Location
among the figments of your imagination
I use both Wolf and Falco, and I can say that both have their merits and weaknesses. Falco has a lot going for him, he can rack up the damage % very quickly and in a number of ways with chain-grabbing, a number of attacks with hitstun and multiple strikes, a very annoying laser. His Kill moves are a slight bit more limited than Fox's but still deadly. Wolf has sheer unrelenting aggression, many high-speed high-priority high-power attacks, and with enough practice, otherwise obsolete moves become deadly surprise attacks (Eg: Wolf Flash).
Both move at lower speeds on the ground (Falco may be a little faster). Falco jumps very high with little horizontal momentum, Wolf doesn't jump quite as high but has very strong aerial momentum.

I feel I was able to learn Falco's strategy pretty easily compared to Wolf. Although Wolf was easy to pick up and play, to truly bring out Wolf's potential requires a lot of practice, more so than even Fox. I kill myself with Wolf more often than any other character because of his high-risk high-return tactics. First starting a Falco was a little tricky but once you get the moves down, you can pretty freely experiment, mix and match on the fly. Falco's gigantic horizontal recovery allows for a pretty wide margin of error without dying, Wolf doesn't have that luxury.

It takes a certain guile to play a good Wolf, to pull an ace out of your sleeve your opponent has no right to expect and beat them over the head with it, To put your opponent into a state of chaos. Falco, on the other hand, requires a cold, merciless control, both of Falco and of your opponent, to always keep them right where you want them

at the lowest levels, Wolf is more likely to win with his "cheap" and "noobish" tactics.
higher up, Falco is more likely to win having far more control than Wolf
at the highest levels, its a close match between the binding control of Falco against the almost chaotic guile and aggression of Wolf

For tactics in Wolf vs. Falco, I haven't actually played another Falco in a good match since no one I play against in my area uses Falco as a main. The best I can offer is to break his control: use the Shine to dodge a laggy attack and turn the tides, destroy the edgehog game with Wolf Flash, and always look for an opening and seize it quickly with F-smash or F-tilt if Falco is close enough. In the air, stay out from under Falco unless you want a taste of the most versatile spike in SSBB, instead jump up alongside and dish out Wolf's brutal drop-kick or power claw before Falco can react, especially in front of Falco since his F-air isn't his best move. Do not try to land the spike unless you are absolutely sure it will connect, Falco can simply jump up and counter-spike you during Wolf's startup lag. If you're in the air against a Falco on the ground, a N-air is always a good bet as it has almost no lag on the ground where you can follow-up with whatever you feel is appropriate. If Falco tries to throw his shine in your face, a well-timed sidestep doge (or even a reflector) followed by a F-smash will close the distance and knock Falco off his feet before he can finish his move.

Most of these tactics require pinpoint precision, something essential for every Smasher, but especially for Wolf. Also these are theoretical tactics since as a Falco player myself I know what I don't want to happen, and I know what Wolf is capable of. Hope this helps someone out there.
 

Kenrawr

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
3,941
Location
Woodbridge, VA
I use both Wolf and Falco, and I can say that both have their merits and weaknesses. Falco has a lot going for him, he can rack up the damage % very quickly and in a number of ways with chain-grabbing, a number of attacks with hitstun and multiple strikes, a very annoying laser. His Kill moves are a slight bit more limited than Fox's but still deadly. Wolf has sheer unrelenting aggression, many high-speed high-priority high-power attacks, and with enough practice, otherwise obsolete moves become deadly surprise attacks (Eg: Wolf Flash).
Both move at lower speeds on the ground (Falco may be a little faster). Falco jumps very high with little horizontal momentum, Wolf doesn't jump quite as high but has very strong aerial momentum.

I feel I was able to learn Falco's strategy pretty easily compared to Wolf. Although Wolf was easy to pick up and play, to truly bring out Wolf's potential requires a lot of practice, more so than even Fox. I kill myself with Wolf more often than any other character because of his high-risk high-return tactics. First starting a Falco was a little tricky but once you get the moves down, you can pretty freely experiment, mix and match on the fly. Falco's gigantic horizontal recovery allows for a pretty wide margin of error without dying, Wolf doesn't have that luxury.

It takes a certain guile to play a good Wolf, to pull an ace out of your sleeve your opponent has no right to expect and beat them over the head with it, To put your opponent into a state of chaos. Falco, on the other hand, requires a cold, merciless control, both of Falco and of your opponent, to always keep them right where you want them

at the lowest levels, Wolf is more likely to win with his "cheap" and "noobish" tactics.
higher up, Falco is more likely to win having far more control than Wolf
at the highest levels, its a close match between the binding control of Falco against the almost chaotic guile and aggression of Wolf

For tactics in Wolf vs. Falco, I haven't actually played another Falco in a good match since no one I play against in my area uses Falco as a main. The best I can offer is to break his control: use the Shine to dodge a laggy attack and turn the tides, destroy the edgehog game with Wolf Flash, and always look for an opening and seize it quickly with F-smash or F-tilt if Falco is close enough. In the air, stay out from under Falco unless you want a taste of the most versatile spike in SSBB, instead jump up alongside and dish out Wolf's brutal drop-kick or power claw before Falco can react, especially in front of Falco since his F-air isn't his best move. Do not try to land the spike unless you are absolutely sure it will connect, Falco can simply jump up and counter-spike you during Wolf's startup lag. If you're in the air against a Falco on the ground, a N-air is always a good bet as it has almost no lag on the ground where you can follow-up with whatever you feel is appropriate. If Falco tries to throw his shine in your face, a well-timed sidestep doge (or even a reflector) followed by a F-smash will close the distance and knock Falco off his feet before he can finish his move.

Most of these tactics require pinpoint precision, something essential for every Smasher, but especially for Wolf. Also these are theoretical tactics since as a Falco player myself I know what I don't want to happen, and I know what Wolf is capable of. Hope this helps someone out there.

As good as this all sounds... you're proposing using moves like nair and fsmash... those are screaming to be shield grabbed...leading to a cg.
 
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