How good do you think Squirtle would be by himself?

[Deleted member 189823]

Yeah, pretty self-explanatory. Squirtle as a stand-alone character, potential good character?

I recall M2K saying he could see him within the Top A tier-characters, and pointed out that he has pretty good KO potential, pointing out he could KO MK from the center of FD at 120% even with DI factored in (this is implying that that factoid would be adding up to Squirtle's possible KO issues, assuming Squirtle doesn't have much trouble in other areas besides his low weight).

 

[Sunnysunny]

Hmm.

I'd have to say around borderline tier.
His weight, grab release issues, and linear recovery hold him back.

But who knows? PT's pokemon don't really get that much representation as is so it's hard to determine.

 

[Osennecho]

I'd say C tier. Def above borderline (D) and def below A IMO.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Eh...M2K says a lot of things. Remember when G&W became the best character in the game when Bucket Braking was discovered?

 

[Browny]

Remember when M2K said... oh I dont know, just about every character in the game except ganon, samus and a few others went 45:55, even or beat MK?

 

[vegeta18]

yeah ive heard a lot of people say squirtle was an a or b tier character if he was stand alone. I dont think so, id say probably around borderline

 

[Lukingordex]

Borderline,imo.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

He'd be like High tier or so. Kind of decent/good.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Squirtle is like a Mario that works

 

[Funkermonster]

Middle tier below Sonic and above Ike; Lighteweight, Poor recovery, Slow Dash Speed, and Terrible Range prevent him from being Borderline or higher.

Charizard may also be Mid Tier by itself and Ivysaur may be Low Tier.

But what we don't know is, what would their down special moves be like?

 

[Lukingordex]

I agree 99% with the post above,expect for the below Sonic part.
Squirtle would definitely be above Sonic too.

 

[Aidebit]

But what we don't know is, what would their down special moves be like?

Shine.

 

[Vashimus]

Middle tier below Sonic and above Ike; Lighteweight, Poor recovery, Slow Dash Speed, and Terrible Range prevent him from being Borderline or higher.

Charizard may also be Mid Tier by itself and Ivysaur may be Low Tier.

But what we don't know is, what would their down special moves be like?

Bubble, Seed Bomb, and Fly.

 

[Funkermonster]

Bubble, Seed Bomb, and Fly.

Uh, but Charizard already has Fly as his Up Special, using it as a (terrible) recovery move. It is not like in the actual Pokémon games; instead a Flying type move that consists of soaring up and then coming back down to strike, Charizard just rises up while cloaked in flames, damaging anyone in his way. Maybe they would have Earthquake or Iron Tail be his D special instead.

I agree 99% with the post above,expect for the below Sonic part.
Squirtle would definitely be above Sonic too.

I don't think so, even without the stupid stamina problem.

1. Because of its small size and lack of projectile, Squirtle needs to get very close to deal damage to its foes; very dangerous because its the 2nd lightest character in the game. It is also kind of hard to do so because of its subpar dash speed. This gives it a bad matchup against better ranged heavy hitters like Marth or Donkey Kong, and his MU against DK would probably be a -4, close to unwinnable (unless its D special involved the use of a good projectile). Squritle would have to get very close to DK just to hurt him, not having a projectile and has small size exasperates its lightweight. This would be tricky to do so as well, as Squirtle is slower than DK and wouldn't have great approach options, allowing DK to just Fsmash or Giant Punch him to death.

Squirtle's combos are the only thing saving him.

2. His recovery sucks (like the other 2 Pokémon) and is linear, gaining very poor vertical height. Being lightweight doesn't help this either, making it too easy to KO.

3. Water Gun and Withdraw aren't very good moves and serve impractical use.

Sonic also has bad range and has worse finishers than Squirtle; but still has his other advantages. This includes better Speed, Recovery, Weight, and Specials.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I think you are underestimating squirtle's strengths... The range on his aerials especially his bair and uair are quite good. Also his dash speed is not that bad but for every bit of speed he doesn't have he makes up for in mobility with shell shifting and great aerial mobility getting in on characters is very easy with squirtle plus you have a frame 1 jab which acts as a very nice get out of jail card for him. I definitely can't see him as any lower than borderline tier. Lightweight has never held mk back and I don't think it would hold squirtle back either.

 

[Vashimus]

Uh, but Charizard already has Fly as his Up Special, using it as a (terrible) recovery move. It is not like in the actual Pokémon games; instead a Flying type move that consists of soaring up and then coming back down to strike, Charizard just rises up while cloaked in flames, damaging anyone in his way. Maybe they would have Earthquake or Iron Tail be his D special.

It was a joke referencing Project: M, a mod of Brawl that replicates Melee, where Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard are their own separate characters with no stamina system, no elemental weaknesses, new down-Bs and tweaked movesets and stats. Charizard's Down B is Fly (launches into the air on the ground, glides in air) and Up-B is Fire Spin (basically his Brawl Up-B). And Squirtle's pretty damn fun to use by himself. There's too many changes for them to list, but they're definitely much better than their Brawl counterparts. I recommend checking it out and stopping by the P:M sub forum. We'd love more players.

 

[Lukingordex]

Sonic also has bad range and has worse finishers than Squirtle; but still has his other advantages. This includes better Speed, Recovery, Weight, and Specials.

Sonic has a bad recorevy lol
If you grab him when he is recovering after he used his upb for example,just wait until he escapes from your grab and he will just fall offstage and will be not able to return.

Sonic does not have a really high weight,he`s just a little heavier than Mario.

If you know the Sonic MU,the speed would be not a big problem,really.




I really don`t know almost nothing about Squirtle,but I know he has good Momentum cancelling, and if combined with a good DI,you can survive a little more.

 

[Ghostbone]

Sonic has a bad recorevy lol
If you grab him when he is recovering after he used his upb for example,just wait until he escapes from your grab and he will just fall offstage and will be not able to return.

>Sonic
>Bad recovery

What are you smoking.

Why would he use up-b in a situation where you can grab him out of it.

He never even needs up-b most of the time because side-b is so good.

 

[Lukingordex]

>Sonic
>Bad recovery

What are you smoking.

Why would he use up-b in a situation where you can grab him out of it.

He never even needs up-b most of the time because side-b is so good.

You're right,nvm what i said about the recovery.
But squirtle alone still deserves some spots above Sonic.

 

[Funkermonster]

You're right,nvm what i said about the recovery.
But squirtle alone still deserves some spots above Sonic.

Oh and one last thing I forgot to mention: Squirtle has very poor air release animation, the worst in the game in fact. This leaves it vulnerable to dash regrabs by many characters, grab release combos by several characters, and even infinite by .

So nope, Squirtle definitely has spots below Sonic.