CO18
Smash Hero
The stickies don't really tell much and Ive been thinking about 2nding shiek, just wanted to know in particular how shiek does vs Falco and Olimar. Thanks
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How does the Shiek vs Falco/Olimar matchup look
- Thread starter CO18
- Start date
demodemo
Smash Ace
vs falco she has a tough time, but once he is off stage she can gimp is recvery very well
as for his phantasm, downsmash, anyone?
olimar, i can't really say but i hear you should be very agreesive and approach constantly with dropping nair.
as for his phantasm, downsmash, anyone?
olimar, i can't really say but i hear you should be very agreesive and approach constantly with dropping nair.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Falco:
DI correctly vs his chaingrab
Don't get grabbed in the first place.
Gimp him like HELL off-stage
Ftilt lock this stupid fast-fall bird.
Watch out for them lasers.
Be wary of his spike.
(I face my friend Rai all the time, he mains Falco but still needs to get his AT (SHDL, silent laser >IAP) down.)
I would say around 65/45 Falco's favor. (he can camp easier and better then you, a bit easier time killing, can chaingrab, reflect your needles, I think laser lock you...)
Olimar: (Bobsmith = my opponent)
Don't get grabbed. EVER.
Mostly use your needles to kill pikmin (especially purples) because purples = your doom.
Watch out for his up-B, so SH approaches can work against you.
His whistle armour will make it harder to gimp him, but thats still free % so go for it.
Vanish works well here.
Approach quickly if being camped.
Space EXTREMELY well.
Switch to Zelda for KO's (at least I would)
70/30 Oli.
I find this matchup a pain in the ***. seriously... I would use Zelda, disjointed hitboxes vs disjointed hitboxes
DI correctly vs his chaingrab
Don't get grabbed in the first place.
Gimp him like HELL off-stage
Ftilt lock this stupid fast-fall bird.
Watch out for them lasers.
Be wary of his spike.
(I face my friend Rai all the time, he mains Falco but still needs to get his AT (SHDL, silent laser >IAP) down.)
I would say around 65/45 Falco's favor. (he can camp easier and better then you, a bit easier time killing, can chaingrab, reflect your needles, I think laser lock you...)
Olimar: (Bobsmith = my opponent)
Don't get grabbed. EVER.
Mostly use your needles to kill pikmin (especially purples) because purples = your doom.
Watch out for his up-B, so SH approaches can work against you.
His whistle armour will make it harder to gimp him, but thats still free % so go for it.
Vanish works well here.
Approach quickly if being camped.
Space EXTREMELY well.
Switch to Zelda for KO's (at least I would)
70/30 Oli.
I find this matchup a pain in the ***. seriously... I would use Zelda, disjointed hitboxes vs disjointed hitboxes
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Have you ever faced an Olimar smart enough to up-B? You won't SH approach anything...
The gimping depends on the olimar, and if they know how to use whistle armour and time their up-B well.
Olimar is the hardest matchup I have vs my friends...
No one cares about your friends. If he's constantly using his up b to stop your approaches, think a little and bait him or just feint and dash into a shield.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I still beat him, what I'm saying is a smart Olimar won't be SH approached as easily as you think.
I generally approach with the bait >dash-sheild grab or DACUS (his reaction time is a little to slow to dodge this everytime)
Mostly I bait him with fullhopped needles, and just space well.
I still say 70/30 unless your facing a bad Olimar that gets gimped everystock.
Oli used to be my main, I'd beat people with only 2 pikmin *duomin ftw* and Sheik was one of my easier matchups, while Zelda was much harder.
so I'm trying to speak from both sides.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
1. Din's fire can get some nice KO's offstage since Oli is lightweight if you're good at tricking people with it. (aka: not being airdodged)
2. Longer lasting hitboxes because Oli will side-step>grab/smash more often then a roll.
3. Olimar is LIGHT, which means Zelda will kill earlier.
4. Can do that Teleport jump thing (forgot the name) to escape the dthrow>usmash>uair combo
5. Dsmash is fast, sends Olimar generally below stage/off-side of stage setting up for an easy as hell edgehog.
6. dtilt, SH fair ***** Olimar.
7. Usmash has a long duration hitbox, and I'm pretty sure it out prioritizes Oli's nair and dair.
8. uair ***** Olimar as well
Explain to me how Sheik is better.........
This should be GREAT
choknater
Smash Obsessed
what kind of idiot olimar is gonna up-B to stop sheik's diagonal approach? what if it misses or if sheik doesn't even approach like that? usmash bait
but yeah olimar does have an advantage on sheik lol but not that bad probably around 60-40
sheik vs falco is even IMO (but most people disagree with me and say 60-40 falco)
but yeah olimar does have an advantage on sheik lol but not that bad probably around 60-40
sheik vs falco is even IMO (but most people disagree with me and say 60-40 falco)
colored blind
Smash Journeyman
If it means anything, I've always had a better time with Sheik than Zelda vs. Olimar, but I'm also far better with Sheik than Zelda. Olimar revels in controlling the battle and owning the opponent hard with his powerful smashes and well-spaced tilts. His air game's powerful, but it's slow. If you can get him into the air with Shiek, Olimar's going to have a hard time getting back because he telegraphs all of his aerials (besides Nair I guess) and Sheik's so freaking fast in the air. Plus, Sheik's gimp game is pretty good, and can really hurt an Olimar if you play smart. Of course, switching to Zelda around 90% works best. Combine all of Sheik's anti-control moves with Zelda's kill power vs. light characters, and the matchup's a lot better vs. Olimar, imo.
Oh, Falco. Right. I'd say the matchup is pretty even, minus the chaingrab. Sheik can recover from it better than a lot of other characters, so it's not completely terrible.
Oh, Falco. Right. I'd say the matchup is pretty even, minus the chaingrab. Sheik can recover from it better than a lot of other characters, so it's not completely terrible.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
:3 I agree with you on that Choknater ~waits for NJfinest to attack~
CO18
Smash Hero
Thx for the help
Fishcake56
Smash Cadet
If you are not proficient at using Zelda, do not transform for the kill against Olimar.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
lmao seriously
The Great Leon
Smash Champion
haha i wish i spent more time here so i could appreciate the joke
Blad01
Smash Lord
IMO :
- Sheik vs Falco : 45/55
- Sheik vs Olimar : 40/60
- Sheik vs Falco : 45/55
- Sheik vs Olimar : 40/60
RedPeppers
Smash Ace
Curious myself, I've spent some time away from the character boards for awhile(He also randomly sent me a friend request which makes me even more curious.).
Zelda can't even get in range against Olimar, she has limited approach options and Olimar can camp her to death. Dins fire isn't going to do anything against his Pikmin throws so what do her disjointed hitboxes mean?1. Din's fire can get some nice KO's offstage since Oli is lightweight if you're good at tricking people with it. (aka: not being airdodged)
2. Longer lasting hitboxes because Oli will side-step>grab/smash more often then a roll.
3. Olimar is LIGHT, which means Zelda will kill earlier.
4. Can do that Teleport jump thing (forgot the name) to escape the dthrow>usmash>uair combo
5. Dsmash is fast, sends Olimar generally below stage/off-side of stage setting up for an easy as hell edgehog.
6. dtilt, SH fair ***** Olimar.
7. Usmash has a long duration hitbox, and I'm pretty sure it out prioritizes Oli's nair and dair.
8. uair ***** Olimar as well
Explain to me how Sheik is better.........
She can't even get close to Olimar, he completely outranges her in the air. If Zelda is above Olimar, she is in a lot of trouble....she has limited means of getting back down to the ground and his upair can be devestating.
lol, sure usmash has insane priority.......everyone knows this now. You won't be landing this much in the Olimar matchup, unless they make a mistake. No Olimar, or most characters for that matter will be challenging Zelda with a dair above her.....that's idiotic.
Sure uair is great...... saying it ***** Olimar is funny; it ***** any character in the game.....if you ever land it.
"Dsmash is fast, sends Olimar generally below stage/off-side of stage setting up for an easy as hell edgehog." lol....ever played Sheik? You pretty much just described her dsmash.
Overall, Sheik has more approach options, the speed to get around Olimars defensive manuevers, more options for avoiding grabs, can play defensively with needles.
Zelda, on the other hand, is a character who's forced to approach when she simply can't.......sounds like it's better for Sheik to me.
ss118
Smash Master
I still don't understand why people say the falco vs shiek game is in such favor of the falco player.
In my opinion, it's similar to the fox versus falco matchup in melee(**** tiers), where both players could do nasty things to each other. It all depends on the first hit.
I honestly say that crouch-approaching is useful against falco and getting in little bits of damage will eventually get him to the 30% needed to ftilt lock him. Needles and down tilts are very useful to build up damage to that point, since I beileve on flat ground he can't hit you that low. Keep your distance and avoid the grab with well space tilts from time-to-time.
And then if we talk about the edgegame, there's no doubt who wins in that case.
Olimar I find to be a little more difficult, because IIRC his pikmin are the only things that can block needle approaches. It's not safe to be on the ground as his broken-*** grab will come to haunt you every time, so I say approach in the air with SH airdodges maybe and try to get behind him, where is you can definately get in a few ftilts and possibly an uptilt. Against olimar I tend to end with upsmashes more since good DI means that they are off the stage(which is good), where bad DI means they die upwardly(even better).
In my opinion, it's similar to the fox versus falco matchup in melee(**** tiers), where both players could do nasty things to each other. It all depends on the first hit.
I honestly say that crouch-approaching is useful against falco and getting in little bits of damage will eventually get him to the 30% needed to ftilt lock him. Needles and down tilts are very useful to build up damage to that point, since I beileve on flat ground he can't hit you that low. Keep your distance and avoid the grab with well space tilts from time-to-time.
And then if we talk about the edgegame, there's no doubt who wins in that case.
Olimar I find to be a little more difficult, because IIRC his pikmin are the only things that can block needle approaches. It's not safe to be on the ground as his broken-*** grab will come to haunt you every time, so I say approach in the air with SH airdodges maybe and try to get behind him, where is you can definately get in a few ftilts and possibly an uptilt. Against olimar I tend to end with upsmashes more since good DI means that they are off the stage(which is good), where bad DI means they die upwardly(even better).
The Great Leon
Smash Champion
you can both gay but falco can kill easier
60 40
60 40
hurricaneap60
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2007
- Messages
- 22
Sheik can gimp falco very very easily. If anything sends falco down and off the stage, it is almost always possible to kill him without much difficulty as long as your timing with your fairs is decent.
Also, I feel like the difference in priority isn't that huge as long as the sheik spaces nairs and bairs well.
Also, I feel like the difference in priority isn't that huge as long as the sheik spaces nairs and bairs well.