How do you think Smash 3DS will do competitively when Smash Wii U comes out?

[Saikyoshi]

Did Sakurai do enough ( Looks at roster) MMMMMM No. Game play and Characters are probably the most important things about smash. Now I haven't played the game yet so I can't comment on any game play mechanics. I think Sakurai didn't do enough for the character roster. We got some really cool and requested characters like Little Mac and Mega man and got some very questionable clones like Lucina and Pit's alternate palette swap from brawl. Some veterans are apparently cut and that turns off a lot of people. Hopefully Sakurai will rectify this mistake with DLC like he's been doing with the patches. As long as some good characters are there it will get me coming back to play as them over and over again. That's probably another reason people play the games over and over, game play and characters. Brawl didn't have as good game play as Melee, but why do people still play it, because of the cool characters that brawl has. If Sakurai can add in at least the missing first party veterans, He'll have done enough for the fans of those characters. What good is a smash bros game with good game play if can't play it using your favorite character. If Sakurai wants to deliver, DLC is his friend Game play and character wise.

That's off-topic. This isn't about the roster at all.

The game is barely a week old.
Calling combos the game's "saving grace" implies that it was doomed before it even started for no reason.
The effectiveness of Villager, ROB & Duck Hunt in the span of a WEEK is not indicative of how the metagame is.
HOOOOOONOOOOOOO VECTORING.

The Blast Zone thing is the -only- valid complaint right now.

We're literally going off of the opinions of a small group of people that imported over the span of a week.

The idea of jumping to conclusions and have paranoia right now is just embarrassing.

For a lot of us, it looked doomed from the start, and I don't see what's wrong with a "once bitten, twice shy" attitude towards this, myself. The metagame has a lot of evolving to do before I feel comfortable with it, and I don't know which way it will evolve. I know Brawl lasted five years or so, but the fact is, with the exception of a few, that scene DID die.

By buying a game, you're paying for a service, and if you have reason to suspect that you won't get what you pay for, and in my case I'm paying for a long-lasting experience, well...

 

[Raider 88]

Maybe we can revisit this thread in 6 months or a year? This game is a week old in Japan and the US only has a demo. We still know very little about this game. Way way way too early to talk about this game's longevity, because the fact is NOBODY could possibly know.

 

[no1butmenotu]

This topic has a high risk of turning inflammatory. Posts that attempt to incite or continue a nonconstructive argument will be reported on sight, and I encourage other users to do the same.
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We know the game's out now, so we know more information about it now. So now, I'm starting to worry.

People have already expressed concerns over issues such as the large blast zones, and – especially worrying – the recently discovered mechanic known as "vectoring" that renders landing combos, the return of which were expected to be this game's saving grace, a near-total impossibility. This is coupled with the fact that projectile and camping games turned out to not have been nearly as rebalanced as we thought, if the current effectiveness of , , and are any indication.

In short, there is reason for some players to believe that this game will die an eventual, painful death, just like its immediate predecessor, with the "safe" Melee once again being the only prominent competitive scene.

But that's just the pessimistic side. I need more views on this. Discuss.

I'll say this, and judging by the amount of posts on this discussion, what I'm about to say was probably already said. We live in a time where DLC and patches are possible. Nintendo has already worked out the Peach issue, so they most likely will fix other issues as they come up. On the other hand, I seriously doubt that they will change everything that people have problems with, like the large blast zones. If they don't personally seem to see a problem with it, and if they intentionally left it as is, then that's pretty much it. I honestly don't see this game making it to Evo since it plays more like Brawl than Melee, and the competitive scene seems to prefer that style. Only time will tell though. The meta game hasn't even been explored yet, and this game comes out less than two weeks from now.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I just realized exactly how one-sided the OP is. I'll update it right now.

 

[topspin1617]

Now, I'm no Smash expert, but I honestly don't see any technical reason why Smash 4 couldn't have a healthy, thriving competitive scene.

A lot of the "issues" people seem to have with the game are things I see not as problems, but merely as changes. Larger blast zones and characters living longer? While that's clearly not Melee, I don't see why it should be viewed as bad. It means that either you and your opponent are going to battle it out a bit longer, or that one player is going to have to go for some big risk-reward stuff to get earlier kills. It would seem, to me, to promote more offensive play, more aggressive edgeguarding. If you know that your opponent can survive some attacks, you need to keep the pressure on to make sure they don't get back in the stock. Not to mention that an easy "fix" is to play less stocks than you might in Melee. There's nothing sacred about 4 stocks, and 3 stocks looks to provide the same amount of time to fight in Smash 4, so why not?

I also see vectoring (or "hitstun shuffling", as it apparently has a name lol? Was so surprised when I saw that Tip ingame!) as simply a change. It may be "easy mode DI", but I don't have an issue there. DI has become basically a natural reaction, especially by top level players; I think any value it may have had in favoring the better player has more or less dissipated at this point. In that sense, vectoring to survive being launched is just a different way of DI'ing; everyone knows how to do it, and everyone knows that everyone knows. The bigger concern would be vectoring out of combos. I definitely see the issue there, but from the little of Smash 4 I've played, and tons of video I've watched, it doesn't seem to be preventing combos at all. They're still there... they're just more dependant on character and move selection. Which I think is okay... I don't think, in Smash especially, that combos need to be the cornerstone of every character's gameplay. Sometimes, and some characters, punish a mistake with a big attack or two. Some punish with a good combo. Some capitalize on the opponent's mistake to take time to set up (Wii Fit Trainer's buff, Samus/Robin/Lucario etc. charging a projectile). The playstyles in Smash 4 are incredibly diverse, and I think that's awesome for competitive play. I think, in fact, that diversity and balance could be the keys to Smash 4's success, as they make the game more enjoyable to watch AND play more than anything else.

From a pure gameplay perspective, I'm extremely excited to see the competitive scene for Smash 4 develop. My hope is that enough players see this the way that I do, see that this is simply new Smash mechanics and not a step backwards, and that they give this game a chance to develop. It would seem extremely contradictory to me to allow Melee's metagame to develop over years but to write of Smash 4 before it's even released internationally. I've seen nothing that fundamentally ruins gameplay, and so this game deserves its chance in my opinion.

 

[skaterbaj]

Im not really interested in getting the WiiU. The streams ive seen of the 3ds look really fun. I feel like the 3ds version will have more players in general and should still to do ok after the console version is released. Thoughts?

 

[simpleglitch]

Im not really interested in getting the WiiU. The streams ive seen of the 3ds look really fun. I feel like the 3ds version will have more players in general and should still to do ok after the console version is released. Thoughts?

I don't think the 3DS version will die off too much after the WiiU release. I was actually surprised by how good the 3DS version actually is.
Tournaments will probably lean heavily towards the WiiU verison, but I believe there will be a good size player base for the 3DS version for a good amount of time.

 

[K-45]

Well that depends are u a casual player or a competitive. If u are a casual player just w8 a day and looK at some YouTube videos that spoil all the content in the wiiU version. If there's very little content u care about, extra stages and modes. Then I say just stick with the 3ds. But if they added a few new characters and if u like the way they play the by all means buy it.

Also I expect the 3ds will last as long as the wiiU version. Don't expect any high level play if u truly want to play competitive.

 

[chrisall76]

The fact of just having a HD version and having a gc controller pulls me to the WiiU version, and it also does for alot of people. imo I think the 3DS one will have alot of players but alot of people really want the console version.

 

[Archimedes]

I will say the 3DS version is very impressive for what its given to work with but im pretty sure the competitive community will prefer the Wii U version 100 times over.

I mean the 3DS version is cool, but with the minor lag issues, less extras, and not being able to use a proper controller the Wii U will hold the more hardcore players attention.

EDIT: Though I do see the 3DS Smash excelling at cons of any sort, but for any "official" tournaments its pretty obvious people will prefer to play with a controller.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

The 3DS version will last as long as the Wii U version.

 

[NivinyaFate]

I think both versions will do well, but I'd expect from a non-competitive stand point that the 3DS version will do much better than the WIi U version. There are just so many more 3DS out there compared to Wii U, and even though Smash 4 will likely help the Wii U a lot, it won't come close to the 3DS' numbers. For longevity, I can't see either game becoming unpopular prior to the next Smash game releasing.

As a future Smash 4 streamer, I plan to focus on the Wii U version when it comes out, but I still plan to pick up a 3DS capture card eventually (using a webcam at first) and will still make time for it so I can play with viewers who only have the 3DS version of the game.

 

[S2]

Competitive smash will probably move completely to the Wii U version. Gamecube controllers and the ability to host all players on a single console/television is the primary reason. It's harder to organize a tournament around a lot of individual systems that all have the potential to run out of battery life.

The 3DS version will still probably see a ton of play casually and potentially as a side tournament game. There has already been discussions of using the 3DS for side tournaments using custom move sets since you can preset everything on your own system.

While Wii U is most definitely going to be the tournament standard, the ability to play Smash on the go is the strong point of the 3DS version. If your serious about competition, you'll probably want to invest in a Wii U. If you're just looking to have fun and maybe play some online from time to time, well then the 3DS version may be all you need.

 

[Raijinken]

It'll have its own following, especially with the U's library as relatively small as it currently is.

 

[Moldy Clay]

The 3DS version will almost certainly still be thriving. A lot of people are fine with sticking to the 3DS alone. Those people will play it until they can't anymore.

The Wii U version is almost certainly where competitive play will focus though. So, this all depends.

If you mean, will you be able to find plays online? Absolutely.
If you mean, will you be able to find competitive play? Maaaaybe. There will probably be a few tournaments or something, but it will definitely migrate to Wii U. Though, this won't necessarily be a problem if you can adapt well to controller changes/back to Gamecube.

 

[skaterbaj]

yeah I feel like 3ds tournaments for smash 4 would run way smoother and less expensive. It would be the perfect side event at smash tournaments. like honestly you could run a national in a library lol. I guess im considered casual since I play melee/pm competitive. Like I said im not interested in the console version but ill play it if my friends have it

 

[Trickerhere]

Leave your answer below! Personally I think the Wii U will be the dominant game and the 3DS version is going to be the game that everyone plays on the car ride to the venue or waiting between matches. Maybe even some tournaments for the 3DS still but the Wii U is going to be amazing and it looks beautiful! I am going to be getting both and I super excited!

 

[Aunt Jemima]

During big tournaments, and most likely some smaller tournaments, I believe that the Wii U will dominate, and be used almost all of the time. This is for multiple reasons, including controller options (mainly GameCube Controller), no local lag (3DS suffers local lag sometimes), and, of course, HD gameplay. However, I believe the 3DS will still be present at tournaments. I think that people (commentators, competitors, and people just watching the tournament among others) will be playing friendlies before the tournament, in between matches, and so on. This is basically the first time everybody attending a tournament can actually play Smash Bros. together, so I think a lot of people will take that opportunity.

 

[KaZe_DaRKWIND]

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-much-does-the-3ds-version-matter-competitively.369262/
This should cover the topic.
As for the answer, given how there are about 37 million more 3DS units out there compared to Wii U it will be fine. I wouldn't be surprised if it was not just the same size but even bigger than the Wii U one when it comes out.

 

[TunaAndBacon]

I feel like the Wii U may eventually become the one everybody plays, but the lackluster sales of the Wii U may very well be a reason for smash 3DS to remain the prominent choice.

 

[Renji64]

It will be fine. It is portable and have people enjoying it along side the WiiU one.

 

[HdTyvek]

I think smash will sell wii u's for nintendo, not to mention there are alot of other games that will make the console. i dont think the 3ds will get completely outdone but i do believe competitively the wii u is just better for the controller alone

 

[TunaAndBacon]

I think smash will sell wii u's for nintendo, not to mention there are alot of other games that will make the console. i dont think the 3ds will get completely outdone but i do believe competitively the wii u is just better for the controller alone

The 3DS will be perfect for the road trips to said Wii U tournaments

 

[HdTyvek]

The 3DS will be perfect for the road trips to said Wii U tournaments

exactly, i know personally i plan to use the 3ds version to practice when i cant have my wii u

 

[KoiKazma]

I think this game will certainly have a competitive scene, just because it lacks 'competitive techniques' (Which were glitches anyway) or quick kills, doesn't make it any less good. Just give the game some time, it'll be great on the competitive front.

 

[FireWater]

Well here is the thing.

Melee pretty much started it all, and was/is a GREAT game. Melee took the world by surprise (which I think is a good thing), and gave the smash community seemingly endless depths of gameplay to explore. Back on the gamecube there was no reasonable way to hook up to the internet, and as such no patches for the game and no mainstream online play. When people wanted to smash, they would drive 7-8 hours or fly to compete in the best competition. Out of all the great players who were truly great, the smash community was limited by just local play.

I think that is great, but it is also very restrictive. Not every has the resources to fly/drive to have the ability to compete. That is where online play opens a flood gate.

The challenge is that the 3ds/wii u version, they have made significant changes since Melee. Wave dashing was actually a bug, and while its a fan favorite tech move, the developers didn't embrace it as such. So they took it out for Brawl. In fact Sakurai at one point stated that he despised the competitive community and wanted brawl to be more casual.

The challenge is there is SUCH a strong attachment to Melee from the older community (much like a lot of smashboards) which is understandable. The problem is that every new smash game is compared to that by the old players with a strong bias towards melee.

Think about it.

And old Melee pro will have to learn new character match ups, stages, moveset for over 50 champs, and probably can't use a good amount of their tech moves as they do not exist in the game engine anymore. So they are going to have to put in more work for competition when they have already put that work into melee.

That is of course assuming that the player is narrow minded and rigid. Of course there will be some Melee players that want smash 4 to fail. These players are very selfish will only hurt the smash community going forward.

I think Smash 4 will have the greatest chance of not only being commercially successful but also a successful competitive title. It is much easier for people to get involved with competition. Smashboards has previously run tournaments successfully and will continue to do so as solid online play opens the doors for a floodgate of new blood/competitors, which is what a scene needs to survive.

If Melee players still want to play Melee, than there is nothing stopping them. The challenge is that I predict that some (hopefully just a few) will not try to interfere with any Smash 4 tournaments. Negatively in a community kills a game faster than any game balance or bugs will.

I think this game has strong potential. I also think that it requires the community has a whole minus a few stragglers to make the transition and adapt. I am hopeful that it will be the case.

Also the "lacks competitive moves" or any argument like that is BS for a few reasons.

1) How do you operationalize which moves are "competitive" vs "non-competitive"

2) Who determines these definitions?

3) Is there any other way to classify certain moves differently, what is the objective criterion for seperation of moves

4) Competition is when one player/team competes against another player/team for a singular victory condition. that is it. Anything else honestly is just fluff.