How do you maximize Ike's recovery?

[AndrewCarlson]

With all the talk on Smash Boards about Ike being one of the easiest characters to gimp and having one of the worst recoveries, just how do you Ike mainers make the most of what Ike can do to recover? Drawing from your experiences, has it been successful for the most part? Or would an Ike knocked afar be as good as KOed?

I know that as a Marth mainer, I can recover from most situations due to Marth's fantastic air speed and slow falling speed. Even with an Up-B that travels about the same distance as Aether. Ike doesn't have as great a mobility as Marth in the air, so what do you usually do to increase your chances of making it back to the stage with two recovery options that are either strictly horizontal or mostly vertical?

 

[Kinzer]

With all the talk on Smash Boards about Ike being one of the easiest characters to gimp and having one of the worst recoveries, just how do you Ike mainers make the most of what Ike can do to recover? Drawing from your experiences, has it been successful for the most part? Or would an Ike knocked afar be as good as KOed?

I know that as a Marth mainer, I can recover from most situations due to Marth's fantastic air speed and slow falling speed. Even with an Up-B that travels about the same distance as Aether. Ike doesn't have as great a mobility as Marth in the air, so what do you usually do to increase your chances of making it back to the stage with two recovery options that are either strictly horizontal or mostly vertical?

We directional influence up and towards the stage as much as humanly possible, it's true that if we get sent too far horizontal and low, we are as good as dead. Quickdraw needs time to charge, and Aether is only better in terms of vertical recovery. Again, it's quite true that Ike is "easier" to gimp, let's say, but he's not hopelessly in danger of being gimped.

For one thing, we can control the sideways movement of Aether slightly, what does this allow us to do? For one thing, this alone let's us decide wather we can sweetspot the ledge or go ahead and land on the stage if necessary.

We can also wait a little bit longer and throw off the opponent to reverse Aether, at the cost of either waiting a little bit longer to lose vertical distance, or keeping our backs towards the stage and do it at the same height regardless. We'll most likely have to sweetspot the ledge as doing it backwards will send us too far off to be able to land on the stage.

Quickdraw is alright to charge up when you're magnified, as this will send us considerably far horizontally.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Unless your at tournament level play already stop using QD. No offense but I'm assuming you aren't smart enough to use it well yet so not using it right now will actually automatically make you better since Aether is a bit hard to gimp.

It's been proven that Aether can get you back to the stage every time QD can.

You don't always DI up too btw. It works well against a lot of things but DIing up will get you killed when you could have lived for much longer against things like Usmash and other vertical killing moves.

Also when you are launched use Bair to get control over Ike. I think it is the fastest way atm unless Nair comes out faster which might be possible. I might do some frame testing later on.

 

[Kinzer]

It's been proven that Aether can get you back to the stage every time QD can.

Also when you are launched use Bair to get control over Ike. I think it is the fastest way atm unless Nair comes out faster which might be possible. I might do some frame testing later on.

I hope you mean Aether can get you the same distance in terms of DI while you're freefalling, otherwise I will have mixed feelings.

Also doesn't he just want us to tell him how we can use Ike's recovery to it's fullest? who/what are you pertaining to in this sentence?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Moving trough the air isn't DI. but of course you have to move trough the air to get the same distance you can't just aether past the visual border and expect to make it back. You can make it back with aether every time you can with QD though at every angle every time.

idk what your second question is about.

 

[Kinzer]

-Also when you are launched use Bair to get control over Ike. I think it is the fastest way atm unless Nair comes out faster which might be possible. I might do some frame testing later on.-

I don't quite understand, we we're talking about recoveries, then you want into "Nair and Bair", what character is this talking about/ why did you bring this up?

Edit: You're also right on the DI after the attack, I'm just not famaliar with the term you use to make it so that if you use the pads to go up and towards the stage you'll have better chances at making it back than you would if you just held it completely to a side. Still of course according to what direction you're sent you have to DI accordingly or you might end up getting Star-K.O.ed

 

[YagamiLight]

I don't quite understand, we we're talking about recoveries, then you want into "Nair and Bair", what character is this talking about/ why did you bring this up?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192522

As for the topic itself, I'm waaay too tired to think of a normal response. I'll post something on what I think of both recoveries tomorrow.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

ok Lets say Ike dies at 160% from Squirtles Dthrow. If you don't do anything you'll die at that precent. If you air dodge you can live at like 163% If you Bair you'll live until 165%.


I have no idea why this happens it just does.

@ edit: I think you had that part right I was just saying you don't always DI up.

 

[Kinzer]

OH THAT! Yeah, I know what it is now, I've read that before, although doesn't that only work for spammable aerials like Meta Knight's Uair whereas with Ike's his aerials have too much lag to benefit him at all, or does it still work somewhat?

 

[Wyvern-x]

To maximize Ike's recovery save your second jump. Learn when to use it when recovering low. Whenever close enough to the edge use aether instead using your second jump.

 

[Guilhe]

He is talking about using aerials for recovery Kinzer. Take a look at this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192522

EDIT: Wow, you guys post too fast!

 

[Kinzer]

Yes Guilhe, I've seen the thread, nice discovery btw, but my question is does it benefit Ike, be it as major as MK or even just a little?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

yes it does.

 

[HeroMystic]

Using aerials doesn't nessecarily lessen the launch speed, but allows you to get aerial control more quickly. Remember those moments where you were actually able to move your character, but a second later you get KOed cause you were still moving backwards? Aerials tend to stop that, especially ones that momentarily stops your movement like Lucario's D-air.

As for the OP: We DI towards the stage. If we get sent diagonally upwards, we may DI downward so we can lessen our chance of getting KOed. We then make good use air dodging to avoid gimping attacks. If we get hit by one, we use DI to lessen the gimp and still give us a decent chance.

Aether almost always gives us a better chance of getting back onto the stage instead of Quick Draw. QD gets us gimped. Aether does not. With Aether, you can choose to either grab the ledge or land on the stage, but if the opponent is close to the edge, we always makes sure that Aether hits him/her to negate their attempts of edgehogging.

That's how I always do it anyways.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

It's been proven that Aether can get you back to the stage every time QD can.

I don't know about that. I believe there is a small (very small) area where you can make it back by jumping and charging QD, where you can't with Aether. If you use your second jump and charge QD, you keep the momentum from the second jump, so you move forward while charging. It's not very likely you'll stop EXACTLY in that small margin, but I believe that the small margin is still there, though, you'll most likely get gimped....

 

[doom dragon 105]

I don't know about that. I believe there is a small (very small) area where you can make it back by jumping and charging QD, where you can't with Aether. If you use your second jump and charge QD, you keep the momentum from the second jump, so you move forward while charging. It's not very likely you'll stop EXACTLY in that small margin, but I believe that the small margin is still there, though, you'll most likely get gimped....

So

10aether

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Using aerials doesn't nessecarily lessen the launch speed, but allows you to get aerial control more quickly. Remember those moments where you were actually able to move your character, but a second later you get KOed cause you were still moving backwards? Aerials tend to stop that, especially ones that momentarily stops your movement like Lucario's D-air.

As for the OP: We DI towards the stage. If we get sent diagonally upwards, we may DI downward so we can lessen our chance of getting KOed. We then make good use air dodging to avoid gimping attacks. If we get hit by one, we use DI to lessen the gimp and still give us a decent chance.

Aether almost always gives us a better chance of getting back onto the stage instead of Quick Draw. QD gets us gimped. Aether does not. With Aether, you can choose to either grab the ledge or land on the stage, but if the opponent is close to the edge, we always makes sure that Aether hits him/her to negate their attempts of edgehogging.

That's how I always do it anyways.

Marths Fair doesn't stop his movement and it allows him to live higher than an air dodge does.

You don't DI towards the stage this will get you killed at times. You move towards the stage DI is something you do miliseconds after your hit.

Aether gets gimped to but not by air dodges and standing in your way. Theres still a number of things that can do it but not everything in the game like with QD.

I don't know about that. I believe there is a small (very small) area where you can make it back by jumping and charging QD, where you can't with Aether. If you use your second jump and charge QD, you keep the momentum from the second jump, so you move forward while charging. It's not very likely you'll stop EXACTLY in that small margin, but I believe that the small margin is still there, though, you'll most likely get gimped....

No it doesn't exist. I used to think aether worked 99.9% of the time QD did but then guile went and tested it.

Aether works 100% of the time QD does.