How do you Kill? What are some things I can do?

[Pegashi]

Most of my kills seem to come from Up+B cart explosions... maybe that's all I go for. #style

I like his fsmash, but you'll find out quickly if your opponent can SDI out of it... and if they can it should be removed from your arsenal for that match. Upsmash is really my other go to.

What's everyone's thoughts on Down+B? I abuse it if I smash them off the stage and they are returning, offers so many setups and makes them guess. Also, on several occasions I've had them walk back in to my opponent as they grab me to break the grab. It's been a huge tool for me in glory. Even just returning to stage above them, plopping one on top of them and fast falling with a fair or immediate grab.

This character is too much fun...

I don't know about your downB as a kill move, but it provides so much spacing and edge guarding utility, it's hilarious. If I ever need to set up for a combo, I rush to the other end of the stage, downB, and then charge a cannonball and force my opponent to choose which one to take. If neither hit, it usually sets up for an easy kart to nair combo, so it's pretty hard to avoid completely.

Since you can pick up your koopalings, as well, I've found that throwing them off the stage can gather a kill or two if you catch them off guard.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Keep your fair fresh, and it'll gimp almost anybody it didn't kill

 

[SShane]

ive been doing alot of car cancel u air at high percercent for kill but up smash is a reliable kill move too i have some trouble landing his other smashes

 

[Overmaster]

Keep your fair fresh, and it'll gimp almost anybody it didn't kill

Getting back to stage is a risky proposition, though....

ive been doing alot of car cancel u air at high percercent for kill but up smash is a reliable kill move too i have some trouble landing his other smashes

I'm having trouble making this stick recently. It used to work, but now it feels finnicky and impercise. Let me double-check:

So you ram them with the clown car, then immediately jump out wiht no spin out and go into your Uair? And that's a tru-combo? At what percents?

 

[SmashBro99]

Fsmash has been racking up kills for me, just need to learn the hit box.

 

[Overmaster]

Keep your fair fresh, and it'll gimp almost anybody it didn't kill

Fsmash has been racking up kills for me, just need to learn the hit box.

All of Bowser Jr's persistent hitboxes can be really strong, so I'm actually liking things like the fsmash. The problem is that I feel it comes out kind of slowly with poor range. It's just really underwhelming and BEGGING for punishment.

But I'm not really good at punishing other players without the c-stick, so maybe I shouldn't talk... >_>

 

[Crescendo]

I think FSmash has some potential when it comes to punishing roll spam because of its multi hit properties. It just is a problem of timing.
Outside of that and punishing with DSmash, he doesn't seem to be the kind of character who can reliably kill on stage. His extremely strong aerials, on top of a very good recovery which also has killing properties are pretty much your main tools. Junior has a very strong off stage game, so people should never be scared to chase and gimp with him.

 

[Eji1700]

Getting back to stage is a risky proposition, though....

Eh? Side B, jump cancel, (second jump if you have it still), up B can get you back from most ledge chase games. Just make sure you're using fair to gimp, not dair, as that's usually what will wind up putting you too low.

 

[Reila]

Fsmash works most of the time for me. I also kill a lot with Bowser Jr.'s up special.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

I mean, you CAN kill with fsmash, and it's crazy powerful (84% kill middle of FD on Sonic), but it's very telegraphed, very easy to escape, and very easy to punish

 

[Overmaster]

I think FSmash has some potential when it comes to punishing roll spam because of its multi hit properties. It just is a problem of timing.
Outside of that and punishing with DSmash, he doesn't seem to be the kind of character who can reliably kill on stage. His extremely strong aerials, on top of a very good recovery which also has killing properties are pretty much your main tools. Junior has a very strong off stage game, so people should never be scared to chase and gimp with him.

I don't know how I feel about Bowser Jr's aerials. They're competent, but would you call them extremely good? Compare any of them to real aerial fighters and they're just "okay". Besides, if you dair below a ledge, the multi-hits almost always ensure a SD.

Eh? Side B, jump cancel, (second jump if you have it still), up B can get you back from most ledge chase games. Just make sure you're using fair to gimp, not dair, as that's usually what will wind up putting you too low.

The problem is that our recoveries have no diagonal movement. You can choose to go left with clown car and up with recovery, but if you're too far off the stage you simply don't have time to use both. A few times I have gone deep for a gimp and tried to clown car back to the stage, winding up extremely low and then missing the recovery. Not as though Bowser Jr. can't gimp, I just think that his fair is kind of weak for it (Even at higher percentages it still doesn't really have enough force to truly gimp) and the mixed bag recovery makes returning from the particularly deep (And because our fair ain't so strong, usually the most useful) gimps a risky proposition.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

There's not room in the Koopa Troop for cowards. Get out there and gimp!!

 

[Crescendo]

I don't know how I feel about Bowser Jr's aerials. They're competent, but would you call them extremely good? Compare any of them to real aerial fighters and they're just "okay". Besides, if you dair below a ledge, the multi-hits almost always ensure a SD.

I admit I should make an exception for DAir. Gimping with it is too risky to be reliable and should be used to punished on stage, and even then it's probably the aerial you can most easily punish.
For the others, I stand by my point. F and B Air both have a decent range, large hitbox, good damage and very good knockback. UAir Range is limited compared to others, but makes it up with knockback. The hammer after Up B requires you to be in a risky situation, but if you with it, you have a huge chance of sending your opponent into the blast zone, even kill. Even NAir has decent knockback on top of being his fastest aerial and covering a bit of space as well. They're good at racking up damage, good at killing. Obviously, pure air fighters like Jigglypuff may have an advantage, but I don't think he should be underestimated either.

 

[Minuy600]

Neutral Special: Great to shoot out guys who have trouble with recovering and those who have >150% damage.
Dash Attack: Good to rack up damage, can kill light/heavily damaged opponents.
Up/Down/Neutral + B: Like all other characters a great way to launch players into oblivion. Up+B is best, but all of them are great anyways.
Standard Attack: The range isn't that good, but if it hits, it can be quite a pain for P2.

 

[Overmaster]

There's not room in the Koopa Troop for cowards. Get out there and gimp!!

I admit I should make an exception for DAir. Gimping with it is too risky to be reliable and should be used to punished on stage, and even then it's probably the aerial you can most easily punish.
For the others, I stand by my point. F and B Air both have a decent range, large hitbox, good damage and very good knockback. UAir Range is limited compared to others, but makes it up with knockback. The hammer after Up B requires you to be in a risky situation, but if you with it, you have a huge chance of sending your opponent into the blast zone, even kill. Even NAir has decent knockback on top of being his fastest aerial and covering a bit of space as well. They're good at racking up damage, good at killing. Obviously, pure air fighters like Jigglypuff may have an advantage, but I don't think he should be underestimated either.

Haha, okay, okay! You've changed my heart. I'll go back to practice. What do you guys think about gimping with the recovery though?

 

[MisterVisceral]

Haha, okay, okay! You've changed my heart. I'll go back to practice. What do you guys think about gimping with the recovery though?

I think Nair, Fair and Bair are quick and reliable enough to get a hit in and still UpB recover to the stage. Junior has a pretty nice ledgegrab range, so it's not too damning to even go below the stage.
Recovering from up high is a definite yes--go for the gimp and chase if it's on the top half of the stage. We've got a lot of options here so there's even room for unpredictability.

 

[Overmaster]

I think Nair, Fair and Bair are quick and reliable enough to get a hit in and still UpB recover to the stage. Junior has a pretty nice ledgegrab range, so it's not too damning to even go below the stage.
Recovering from up high is a definite yes--go for the gimp and chase if it's on the top half of the stage. We've got a lot of options here so there's even room for unpredictability.

Oh yes, vertical gimps are extremely nice. If you Up-B and mash A, you can pull out the camera at the very height of your jump to snipe an easy kill. Very strong early kill potential when it sets itself up.

 

[G-Guy]

I found that Bowser Jr has a ton of options when edgeguarding...sometimes i cannot even decide which option to use!

If the enemy is far away but around the same height as i am, i go for a loaded cannonball, followed by a fair if dodged.
If he comes from above, i often choose the risky upB, with the clowncar guarding the edge while I try to hit the hammerblow.
If he is below me, i usually go for a Dair for added damage with an UpB follow-up, crossing my fingers that the car hits him on the head.

Normal Fairs and Bairs also work wonders, as does an edgeguarding mecha. It's just such a brilliant and overwhelming edgegame.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I find myself using his up B move a lot when an approach fails, it's a great escape move. Dump a mecha koopa and Up B, the Copter left behind blows up and does a lot of knockback and then sometimes combos right into the mecha. That other people can pick up a mecha is a big drawback though... what is great about his Up B is that it doesn't put him into helplessness afterwords, you can still attack and it is so quick.

 

[Balloonicorn]

My main method of kills is side B, jump after the hit, up B and try to land the hammer. It hits often but I'm not sure how easy it is to dodge it- it certainly does leave you vulnerable for a bit if you miss. This usually works at about 100%~ and is very easy to land on heavy opponents like ganondorf.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I think the only move that I haven't found a lot of use for is his standard B cannonball. It's just too slow and predictable to do anything meaningful. His aerials are definitely better than his Smash attacks which leave him too vulnerable. I am surprised at how long this little ******* lives. I don't die until after 150% for most attacks.

Wow I think I am becoming a Bowser Jr. main. Who would have thought...

 

[JML]

I found that Bowser Jr has a ton of options when edgeguarding...sometimes i cannot even decide which option to use!

If the enemy is far away but around the same height as i am, i go for a loaded cannonball, followed by a fair if dodged.
If he comes from above, i often choose the risky upB, with the clowncar guarding the edge while I try to hit the hammerblow.
If he is below me, i usually go for a Dair for added damage with an UpB follow-up, crossing my fingers that the car hits him on the head.

Normal Fairs and Bairs also work wonders, as does an edgeguarding mecha. It's just such a brilliant and overwhelming edgegame.

If you get the timing of cannonball charges + distance traveled down, you can actually hit them with the ball while they're hanging from the ledge. Practiced enough with it to do it well. and usually people will hang on the ledge and wait for your mechakoopa to pass.

I think the only move that I haven't found a lot of use for is his standard B cannonball. It's just too slow and predictable to do anything meaningful. His aerials are definitely better than his Smash attacks which leave him too vulnerable. I am surprised at how long this little ******* lives. I don't die until after 150% for most attacks.

Wow I think I am becoming a Bowser Jr. main. Who would have thought...

The fact that the cannonball is so predictable and slow makes it amazing. You can play a lot of mindgames with it, especially with mechakoopa roaming around (since they tend to focus on that). I can normally hit with the cannon 2 or 3 times in a row, solely because people have a hard time judging the time till release and how long you will charge it. If you vary your charge times and make it unpredictable, you can definitely stop approaching characters, even if they're right in front of you. I think jumping while charging helps add to the unpredictableness.

I've stopped approaching C.Falcons, Marths, ZSS, and pretty much any fast character heading your way. Bowser Jr's strength lies in his unpredictability and spacing options.

Don't discount the down smash and up smash. Dsmash is great for edgeguarding, Upsmash can get kills as soon as 80% and has some nice vertical hitbox range.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

I think you're having a lot of fun with the cannonball while people are unfamiliar with Bowser Jr. I don't see it having much use beyond toying with inexperienced players who see the big cannonball and freak out over how ominous it looks. It doesn't do too much damage or knockback even if it hits. When people get the timing down of the move, it's not going to have much life after that.

Up smash can kill but the end lag is ridic. A Falcon Punch can also kill at low percents, that doesn't suddenly not make it telegraphed and silly. Same with the up smash or forward smash. It's not good for one on one. It may be useful in teams or 4 player when players are distracted. I haven't really explored the down smash and its edgeguarding properties. I'll get back to you on that.

That hammer aerial is what is going to be BJ's big killer, I forsee. It comes out quick and kills pretty easy, and you can use it at pretty much any time, even after using his up B recovery which is remarkable because most up Bs in this game put you in helpless mode now.

 

[JML]

I think you're having a lot of fun with the cannonball while people are unfamiliar with Bowser Jr. I don't see it having much use beyond toying with inexperienced players who see the big cannonball and freak out over how ominous it looks. It doesn't do too much damage or knockback even if it hits. When people get the timing down of the move, it's not going to have much life after that.

Up smash can kill but the end lag is ridic. A Falcon Punch can also kill at low percents, that doesn't suddenly not make it telegraphed and silly. Same with the up smash or forward smash. It's not good for one on one. It may be useful in teams or 4 player when players are distracted. I haven't really explored the down smash and its edgeguarding properties. I'll get back to you on that.

That hammer aerial is what is going to be BJ's big killer, I forsee. It comes out quick and kills pretty easy, and you can use it at pretty much any time, even after using his up B recovery which is remarkable because most up Bs in this game put you in helpless mode now.

Yeah, I'd agree about fsmash. Use is extremely limited, will occasionally throw it out once in a blue moon.

True, probably a lot of this is due to other people's inexperience against BJ, but I still think it's a nice move to throw out once in a while because they don't expect it. I often land it on players approaching me and are within an attacks reach just because they expect an aerial or a shield or something. Anyways its use is limited, but it's something viable to throw out occasionally.

As for the big killers, i'd definitely agree it's up B and the hammer mode without the cart. I main BJ, and i'd say half my kills come from those. The rest is all edge guarding with aerials & picked-up mechakoopa and a few smashes.

 

[StormBallad]

I've seen a few people complain about the recovery, so I'll just point out, that with Bowser Jr we potentially have access to two mid-air jumps. you can jump, then side-b and jump again, then up b, making diagonal recovery very simple. Still not entirely safe jumping far off stage, but it rarely is.

If this has already been mentioned, my bad.

 

[jabronni]

I have found it difficult to land kill moves on stage in general. I'm not saying it's not possible/viable, I'm just have difficulty with it. Like some have already said I have more luck with my off-stage game. Jr,'s down b has become my instant reaction when gimping. Using it next to the ledge so it turns around allowing me to grab it and throw it seems to be a great option. If you hit then that's great, if you miss it's still fine because you can just follow it immediately with a fair. Most of my on stage kills have come from up smash out of shield or a grab to up air at high %.

 

[G-Guy]

If you get the timing of cannonball charges + distance traveled down, you can actually hit them with the ball while they're hanging from the ledge. Practiced enough with it to do it well. and usually people will hang on the ledge and wait for your mechakoopa to pass.

Oh wow, I did not realize that. It's quite an interesting tech, so thanks for that! :-)

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

So I've been testing Bowser Jr's Forward Smash at point blank against other characters. I have learned that angling the Fsmash up sometimes makes the move hit more reliably against certain characters. Here is what I have found:


Works against
Mario
Dr. Mario
Luigi
Yoshi
Falco
Duck Hunt Dog
Captain Falcon
Olimar

Doesn't work against
Peach
Rosalina
Link
Zelda
Sheik (using the standard Fsmash works best on her because of how she crouches when hit sometimes)
Ganondorf
Toon Link
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Pit
Dark Pit
Palutena
Marth
Lucina
Ike
Robin
Ness
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Shulk
Mega Man
Sonic

Doesn't matter (the move will hit regardless)
Bowser
Bowser Jr (?)
Wario
G&W
DK
Diddy
Kirby
King DeDeDe
Meta Knight
Little Mac
Fox
Pikachu
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Pac-Man (don't angle it down on him)

Other
Greninja (angling it down works best on him)


Only tested this against opponents with 0% damage. In a situation where a standard Fsmash would work, Fsmash angled up will generally have no problems hitting the character as well (unless they are crouching or something?). Either way though, this can help you hit 8 more characters with it at point blank. 9 if you count Greninja. Um...yay?

(Blast those accursed human-shaped characters getting out of Fsmash so easily)

This could also help hitting with the move at higher percents though I'm not sure/I doubt it. Worth checking out possibly.

 

[zDuck]

If you guys are having issues killing you need to abuse up-smash OOS. Bowser Jr. has one of the fastest up-smash OOS in the game and the move is pretty disjointed (it hits grounded people too).

 

[Prawn]

If you guys are having issues killing you need to abuse up-smash OOS. Bowser Jr. has one of the fastest up-smash OOS in the game and the move is pretty disjointed (it hits grounded people too).

Started usmashin more recently and I can back this. Land behind people and do it, if they shield it can poke/they might drop their shield, if they don't or spot dodge you hit, worst case a good player punishes you but any bad players will get thrown off by the cross up and you'll probably have time to throw out a ftilt or grab afterwards

 

[Exegguter]

If you're standing below the platforms on battlefield, and you jump and charge canon, it looks like jr. Will land on the platform but he does not he actually stays on the ground. Nice for characters that want to go under the canon while recovery.

 

[HammerHappy]

Side smash is kinda bad but the sweet spot destroys. Down smash is preferable.

Hammer airs are lethal. I think UP B is a critical part of your offstage game and also can lead into combos onstage.

You're more vulnerable trying to hit someone with side B than you are with up B honestly.

 

[Conda]

The vulnerability during Up B is the price you pay for being reasonably quick as a heavyweight. Just remember Bowser jr outside of his kart is much lighter - his kart provides hitbox protection in the form of added weight and damage reduction iirc. I'm pretty sure it reduces knockback, not just damage - correct me if I'm wrong.

But yeah, upb hammer use is going to wreck on non-FD stages especially - Bowser Jr will fit in well with the actual meta that will include other stages. He has great stage play for a heavy, with a small hitbox and large reach vertical attacks. His Down B works well on platform stages too, making it easier for him to grab the bomb (via uturn) without needing to be on the edge of the stage in FD/omega stages.

Also, fsmash angled up may be great on Battlefield - have to test it out.

Bowser Jr is looking good - a fighter focused on the sandbox elements on Smash bros. Not combo-based, but rather options-based.

 

[guedes the brawler]

If you get the timing of cannonball charges + distance traveled down, you can actually hit them with the ball while they're hanging from the ledge. Practiced enough with it to do it well. and usually people will hang on the ledge and wait for your mechakoopa to pass.



The fact that the cannonball is so predictable and slow makes it amazing. You can play a lot of mindgames with it, especially with mechakoopa roaming around (since they tend to focus on that). I can normally hit with the cannon 2 or 3 times in a row, solely because people have a hard time judging the time till release and how long you will charge it. If you vary your charge times and make it unpredictable, you can definitely stop approaching characters, even if they're right in front of you. I think jumping while charging helps add to the unpredictableness.

I've stopped approaching C.Falcons, Marths, ZSS, and pretty much any fast character heading your way. Bowser Jr's strength lies in his unpredictability and spacing options.

Don't discount the down smash and up smash. Dsmash is great for edgeguarding, Upsmash can get kills as soon as 80% and has some nice vertical hitbox range.

i have had success witht he cannonball when my foes came from the air and i KNEW the

a) couldn't attack me from where they were and from where they'd land
b)were guaranteed to land soon (no DJ -> aerial or grabbign the ledge)
c)preferably are in a position where rolling doesn't get them behind me

this way, with a little unpredictability i can almost always land the hit. if i don', at least it goes on their shields (and takes a good chunk out of it, sometimes allowing me to shield poke them via d-tilt or down-angled f-tilt)

of course, some characters can really shrug that off, like ZSS (she either can attack me, or is just too far away to care)

 

[UnchainTheRain]

I feel like most of my kills with Bowser Jr. come from bairs, fairs, and up airs. If I'm playing against someone who likes to roll I'll usually try to time a down smash for the kill.

 

[VileFC3S]

I feel like most of my kills with Bowser Jr. come from bairs, fairs, and up airs. If I'm playing against someone who likes to roll I'll usually try to time a down smash for the kill.

For some reason, dsmash never ever works for me. I usually just try to anticipate where they'll roll next if they consistently won't stop rolling in a certain pattern with an upsmash.

I agree as well about the kills. My kills have mostly been through edgeguarding with lots and lots of fairs and nairs. Along with the cannonball and mechanical koopas depending with their distance and the kind of recovery they have.

 

[T-block]

Lately I've been getting most of my kills with f-tilt (which won't kill until like... the 180% range). Might just be my style, but unless I happen to land a nice edgeguard, f-tilt seems to be the only kill move that doesn't leave you super exposed on whiff.

Up-b cart explosion is actually the move that kills the second most for me. In some situations (not all... still figuring out which), up-b OoS is a nice counter option when your opponent is at high percents. Kills decently early, and it seems like if you manage to hit them with that weak pop-up it'll link into the cart explosion quite often.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

One way to KO opponents I have not seen people mention yet is using the Spinout of Side B in the air. Mainly as an edgeguarding tool.

It's incredibly risky if you miss, sure, but it has just as much knockback as Bair. If not a little bit more. And it can come as a nasty surprise to opponents who expect you to edgeguard with Bair/Fair/etc due to the additional range and speed at which you travel with it.

And even if you think you're going to miss? You can always jump-cancel out of it and bait opponents out. And if you DO miss, you can use your double jump after the spinout (assuming you conserved it), and use another Side B or an Up B to help you return to the stage...though you are mostly vulnerable in this state of recovery.

 

[guedes the brawler]

If you get the timing of cannonball charges + distance traveled down, you can actually hit them with the ball while they're hanging from the ledge. Practiced enough with it to do it well. and usually people will hang on the ledge and wait for your mechakoopa to pass.



The fact that the cannonball is so predictable and slow makes it amazing. You can play a lot of mindgames with it, especially with mechakoopa roaming around (since they tend to focus on that). I can normally hit with the cannon 2 or 3 times in a row, solely because people have a hard time judging the time till release and how long you will charge it. If you vary your charge times and make it unpredictable, you can definitely stop approaching characters, even if they're right in front of you. I think jumping while charging helps add to the unpredictableness.

one helpful thing i posted on another thread, pertaining to the cannonball: shooting makes jr recoil, and this cna be used to bait and punish a properly spaced aerial from your enemy, or try to force them to roll/block for a read

 

[Neverbound]

His bair has a sweet spot to it so there is that, I wish canon ball was not trash