How do you feel about her in 3.5?

[MisterCTM]

[quote="MTL Kyle, post: 18183046, member: 262909" Match-up numbers are completely subjective and I don't expect people to fully agree to my statements, let alone someone that doesn't even use common sense.[/quote]

What the heck are you going on about? First you say that _Keno_ doesn't stop to think about the matchup, but then you say that match-up numbers are completely subjective. If they are subjective, how could anyone stop and think about the matchup and understand why you think that way? How could a person understand what you're saying by thinking about the matchup? You've got to give evidence as to why you feel that way. Or, you could continue to be a **** on these boards, not helping anyone and insulting players. C'mon dude.

 

[_Keno_]

Maybe because you are bad and never played any half decent Lucas ? Or you just don't stop to think about stuff and understand the intricacies about the matchups.

Alright, well you just lost all credibility in my eyes. You know nothing about me, and I was simply asking for reasons. For reference, I won the last last two tournaments I went to with peach and I have actually played a skilled lucas in tournament, so I'm not as blind as you would wish. For all I know, you play with a neighbor's lucas and lost. I literally can't tell anything if you don't give reasons or examples.

I for one find it simple to keep lucas out simply by holding a turnip and threatening to chunk it and follow up. But if you get hit once and combed to death, that isn't my problem.

TLDR; I'm not a noob simply because you refuse to back up your randomly flung out numbers.

 

[G13_Flux]

How the hell is the matchup super free in melee? It's definitly even, MAYBE 45 - 55 Luigi Peach.



I disagree for the most part with your assesment of the MK MU, but I agree that edge guarding is key in the matchup. However, how the hell do you go out and edge guard MK? Whever I try to float out and get him he just uses the stupid drill or up-b or just throws out a move and there's like nothing I can do about it it feels.

Also what's this legit kill option out of a grab that isn't fthrow?

Dthrow > dacus. Works past mid percents and stops a bit before fthrow starts killing.

If Mk starts to get comfy drill rushing you or using the tornado, mix with throwing turnips and grabbing the ledge. Theres a lot of endlag with those that can be punished. Turnips do a lot more than you think in this MU since MK doesnt have a reliable way to beef through them with attacks. peach has other MUs with characters that are high speed, high range, can take away her CCing (to an extent) and can beef though turnips (see falcon and marth), and those MUs, while bad, are still doable. MK doesnt have anything besides grabs to beat CCing, while falcon has knees and stomps, and marth has a huge fsmash and a huge grab, and both have nairs that can eat through turnips. Mk doesnt quite have those attributes. while hes very quick, and has some disjoint, peach can CC the crap out of him while keeping him at bay with projectiles.

 

[MTL Kyle]

What the heck are you going on about? First you say that _Keno_ doesn't stop to think about the matchup, but then you say that match-up numbers are completely subjective. If they are subjective, how could anyone stop and think about the matchup and understand why you think that way? How could a person understand what you're saying by thinking about the matchup? You've got to give evidence as to why you feel that way. Or, you could continue to be a **** on these boards, not helping anyone and insulting players. C'mon dude.

You realize that both "not thinking about the match-up" and "match-up numbers being subjective" are both different statements that answer his post right ?

I don't have to give any evidence if he doesn't present any evidence on his point either.
It's from common sense and knowledge that Peach lost hard to Lucas in 3.02. I don't have to back-up anything if he doesn't present anything but "Lol i don't know from where you take those numbers".

The best help I gave him was telling him to think about stuff.

 

[ChiePet]

Lucas, and this being said having fought really solid Fox/C.Falc/MK/Zelda players, is (as unorthadox as it seems every time you run it through your head) Not Fun. Disadvantageous, not unplayable, but a struggle. I'd say it has a lot to do with how far away he can start anything he wants on you and suddenly be in your face almost in MK-like fashion, and it still baffles me now to think of playing the MU.

Reasons won't make any sense, so to be blunt yet apologetic; It's just a bad match up.
</3

 

[MisterCTM]

Is it just me, or is the Lucas matchup very stage dependant? Everytime I have fought a good Lucas, we strike to a large stage and he wins by just running away from me and using PK Freeze to get something going. However, I counter-pick to a small stage like Melee Yoshi's or Green Hill, and I win (or at least do better) by simply being super aggro and not letting him even use PK Freeze. I feel like the matchup becomes even on small stages if you play super aggressive and not let him get anything going. On any other stage but really small stages, though, it becomes more of a war of attrition by pulling turnips, doging the PK Freeze, and using the turnip to capitalize. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MTL Kyle]

However, I counter-pick to a small stage like Melee Yoshi's or Green Hill, and I win (or at least do better) by simply being super aggro and not letting him even use PK Freeze.

Lucas mains (and to a certain extent 75% of PM players) can't neutral at all.

 

[ChiePet]

I'd like to think it's the width of the stage not so much the size, more platforms and smaller side-zones should almost always make a lucas resort to blunt tactics (FoD is a good one for this.)

 

[MTL Kyle]

I'd like to think it's the width of the stage not so much the size, more platforms and smaller side-zones should almost always make a lucas resort to blunt tactics (FoD is a good one for this.)

Big stages might be better for Lucas than they are for Peach TBH LOL.

 

[ChiePet]

Ehh, I still just can't go all in on that, though. I feel the same, trust me, but i still think that there are guaranteed levels that will flip-flop that advantage on him. Perhaps Norfair or FoD. Tbh, not to discredit the Lucas MU, but lately i really haven't had any real issues against him. He feels kinda less safe in a lot of Peach-Driven situations.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Ehh, I still just can't go all in on that, though. I feel the same, trust me, but i still think that there are guaranteed levels that will flip-flop that advantage on him. Perhaps Norfair or FoD. Tbh, not to discredit the Lucas MU, but lately i really haven't had any real issues against him. He feels kinda less safe in a lot of Peach-Driven situations.

I never played a Lucas in 3.5, as they were all in the trainwreck that was 3.02 top tier train.
I have no clue what's the MU numbers right now.

 

[deadjames]

How the hell is the matchup super free in melee? It's definitly even, MAYBE 45 - 55 Luigi Peach.

Peach's bair shuts down literally all of Luigi's approach options in Melee, not to mention she has a better projectile and edge-guards him for free. Luigi's only really good tool against her is his own bair, but it takes a lot of work for him to get into a position to space bairs.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Peach's bair shuts down literally all of Luigi's approach options in Melee

Bait and punish is a dead concept apparently.

 

[deadjames]

Bait and punish is a dead concept apparently.

Good luck trying to punish a float-cancelled bair as Luigi, that being said bait and punish is an irrelevant concept when discussing MUs, as it is not a character specific tool.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Good luck trying to punish a float-cancelled bair as Luigi, that being said bait and punish is an irrelevant concept when discussing MUs, as it is not a character specific tool.

It is when you have insane mobility.

 

[deadjames]

Luigi has terrible mobility in the air, which is where he has to fight Peach, he has nothing to deter her from floating.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

I love Peach, but since I first picked her up playing Smash 4, I find it hard to transition between the two. I'd rather not play more characters in PM, since I already play like, 6 characters, but I like fooling around with her and float tricks.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Peach in Smash4 is more defensive than other iterations.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

Peach in Smash4 is more defensive than other iterations.

I've noticed. I tried playing her differently but I just can't get used to how different she feels. She's still a really cool character, and I'm glad I can say I play her often.

 

[ChiePet]

I've decided to play Rosalina in Smash 4, sicne they're so vastly different, I feel like it keeps Project M/Melee out of Smash4's hair as far as crossing up which-does-what scenarios.

Still loving Peach the same, if not more, in Project M 3.5 though.