How do you feel about her in 3.5?

[_Keno_]

Can someone make a vid of the dacus to show it's use, slide range, and whatnot? I really dont know what it looks like or how to use it.

 

[Citricide]

I remember armada saying on stream that he wouldn't play Peach in Project M 3.02 because her air dodge wasn't the same as it was in melee. I can see Armada playing Peach in PM again.

 

[Alakaslam]

jokes hurt!

This is Smashboards! Apologies!

 

[Plebiscuit]

Yeah, that probably wasn't actually necessary. Ha.

 

[Alakaslam]

The -ness suffix doesn't usually replace the last letter of the word (e.g. the standard "northernness"), and I get what you were saying earlier about the ever-changing nature of language, but you can't go around being pedantic about someone's English in one post and make two errors in your next (not to mention your stilted "thou"). Review the rules of our language again before correcting others.

Was that impolite? Condescending? Unpleasant? Are you hunting through my post now, looking for errors to throw back in my face?

Stop.

This is how other people feel when you criticize their writing without any invitation to do so. Don't be a militant grammarian and shame them publicly for their errors. If you want to help someone, do it through a private message.

Now, back to Peach stuff.

I do not feel offended; I used an inside joke regarding the character Ness.

If it was offensive though, I will remove it.

In fact, it is done.

 

[ChiePet]

This doesn't really shine a lot of hope for Peach's Future..

#RIPInPiece

 

[_Keno_]

Peach is fine and underrated, which is a good thing. The end.

Did you guys see the Clash tier list (which is just the combined opinions of top players)? Peach was rated the 4th worst character!
Source: http://clashtournaments.com/project-m-3-02-final-tier-list/

Tbh I hope she doesn't get many buffs because then she'll eventually get nerfed.

 

[MisterCTM]

Peach was rated the 4th worst character!

Well, as Peach players, we've gotta go out and show that Peach is good. Plus, that was for 3.02 not 3.5, Peach being 4th worst in 3.02 was probably true lol.

Tbh I hope she doesn't get many buffs because then she'll eventually get nerfed.

How many more versions of PM are there expected to be before the final version? I can't imagine that it would be too much more now that Sm4sh Wii U is out.

 

[ChiePet]

Apply to Tiers that it's not only character's power and tech, but also the amount of Tops/Wins and how often they're represented; she is far from well represented and that being said, a major lack of tournament showings, much less any tops.

Really, it's more of a "get out there!" reason than an incapability.

 

[Deco-Nii]

ill try the dacus trick asap im interested

 

[Deco-Nii]

Well, as Peach players, we've gotta go out and show that Peach is good. Plus, that was for 3.02 not 3.5, Peach being 4th worst in 3.02 was probably true lol.



How many more versions of PM are there expected to be before the final version? I can't imagine that it would be too much more now that Sm4sh Wii U is out.

i think theyll keep updating it....tbh and in the end like add unique characters but yeah Peach is definitly good now

 

[MTL Kyle]

Well, as Peach players, we've gotta go out and show that Peach is good. Plus, that was for 3.02 not 3.5, Peach being 4th worst in 3.02 was probably true lol..

Not even lol.

 

[MisterCTM]

Not even lol.

Where would you have put her then?

 

[ChiePet]

I've wanted 2 things since 3.02's 'tier list' and i really want detail, i'm so tired of simple answer/trolling s***;
1. I can visibly see things but can't explain nor identify them; what makes Peach in 3.5 (outside of new meta-game caused by new characters/moves) different, or incertain peoples eyes, Worse than Melee's? I really want comparitive info if nothing else.
2. She gained tech from both Melee and additional tech from Brawl, what from either being included in 3.5 helps her most? Or what's she missing?

 

[MTL Kyle]

Where would you have put her then?

Same tier as Lucario probably, as she beats everybody in a head to head till she meets Falcon.


For 3.5 she certainly goes higher due character nerfs.

 

[ChiePet]

Same tier as Lucario probably, as she beats everybody in a head to head till she meets Falcon.


For 3.5 she certainly goes higher due character nerfs.

Wait, Lucario back in March, or Lucario at 3.02's End?
Because Lucario went from 19th in Mid Tier to 31st near the end of Mid Tier , making her move like.. hardly from where she ended up. lol

*Shrug*

 

[deadjames]

Same tier as Lucario probably, as she beats everybody in a head to head till she meets Falcon.


For 3.5 she certainly goes higher due character nerfs.

Peach loses to a lot more characters than Falcon, there's also Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Roy, Ike, ZSS, MK, Pit, Snake, Mewtwo, Link, Zelda, and Toon Link.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Peach loses to a lot more characters than Falcon, there's also Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Roy, Ike, ZSS, MK, Pit, Snake, Mewtwo, Link, Zelda, and Toon Link.

Learn to read.

Wait, Lucario back in March, or Lucario at 3.02's End?

The 3.02 end one.

The tier list from March was super fraudulent. I don't know what the panel had in their heads.

 

[_Keno_]

I dont think peach loses to even half of those character james mentioned.

 

[MisterCTM]

Peach loses to a lot more characters than Falcon, there's also Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Roy, Ike, ZSS, MK, Pit, Snake, Mewtwo, Link, Zelda, and Toon Link.

Falcon she has a hard time with. Fox and Falco are hard but I don't think they are as bad as people think. Sheik she goes even with. Marth is the same as it was in Melee. Roy she loses to (35 - 65 Peach Roy). Ike is probably something like 40-60 Peach Ike. Never fought a ZSS. MK is ****ing awful, even still in 3.5. It's probably something like 25 -75 Peach MK. Never fought a Pit, Snake, or Mew2. Link is annoying as hell but probably 45 - 55 Peach Link. Zelda is even in 3.5, maybe even 60 - 40 Peach Zelda. Tink is same as Link probably, maybe 40 - 60 Peach Tink.

Overall I don't think she has awful matchups across the board, but she certainly is an uphill battle.

 

[_Keno_]

Fox and falcon are still peach's worst matchups IMO. Our #3 in my state is a Roy, but I didn't have too much trouble keeping him out with nairs/jabs/grabs or approaching with turnips. What do you think makes it so bad?

Tbh I dont see any matchups worse than 40-60. We have a good MK, but I dont know how well he knows the peach matchup. He only barely beat me, and there was nothing too overbearing like with a skilled fox/falcon.

 

[MisterCTM]

What do you think makes it so bad?

Peach always has a bad time against swords(wo)men. All of her moves save turnip and fsmash are outranged by nearly every attack with a sword. I don't think that the matchups against swordsmen are incredibly bad, because turnips OP pls nerf (pls don't dev team I kid), but **** man unless you capitalize on every single turnip you land it is a long, long war of attricion.

I will keep in mind what you said about the Roy matchup, and next time I face a Roy (tomorrow probably, at S@X), I'll try and see if I can do any better. Who knows?

I still think Falcon is bad. Fox isn't that bad imo definitly not as bad as MK, Falcon, or Marth. MK doesn't even need to know the matchup to **** Peach, like he can throw out any arieal and if they connect whelp you're getting comboed or died. Up-b kills so early on Peach too and that sucks, especially when MK gets one hit then you're at the top of the screen and then BAM up-B. Ded.

Yes, I got ****ed up by a terrible MK player and I'm super salty about it. I always place better than him but he keeps casually braging that he's so much better than me. It's ****ing annoying as hell.

Tbh I dont see any matchups worse than 40-60. We have a good MK, but I dont know how well he knows the peach matchup. He only barely beat me, and there was nothing too overbearing like with a skilled fox/falcon.

MK is worse than 40 - 60. That's the only one, I think. I'm used to dealing with Fox's stupid tech from Melee so Fox's stuff doesn't phase me so much. Falcon is more annoying and different than in Melee though, and that is stoopid.

 

[_Keno_]

I wish my match had been recorded, maybe you could tell me what he did wrong or see what I did right.

IMO swordfighters are pretty much all the same though. Your dash attack out-prioritizes all their aerials and you should only approach if you have a turnip at hand or if they're above you. The range isn't so important if you force them to act or shield with a turnip.

MK is pretty similar I'd say. If your turnip game is good, you can get in on any swordfighter, and once that happens it's peaches game.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Your dash attack out-prioritizes all their aerials

Tell that to MK.

 

[deadjames]

Learn to read.

she beats everybody in a head to head till she meets Falcon.

]

That is just simply not true.

Falcon she has a hard time with. Fox and Falco are hard but I don't think they are as bad as people think. Sheik she goes even with. Marth is the same as it was in Melee. Roy she loses to (35 - 65 Peach Roy). Ike is probably something like 40-60 Peach Ike. Never fought a ZSS. MK is ****ing awful, even still in 3.5. It's probably something like 25 -75 Peach MK. Never fought a Pit, Snake, or Mew2. Link is annoying as hell but probably 45 - 55 Peach Link. Zelda is even in 3.5, maybe even 60 - 40 Peach Zelda. Tink is same as Link probably, maybe 40 - 60 Peach Tink.

Overall I don't think she has awful matchups across the board, but she certainly is an uphill battle.

Imo, Fox is way harder than Falcon easily 7:3 Fox as it is in Melee Falco is definitely 5.5:4.5, Sheik is not even, it's 6:4 Sheik just like Melee, ZSS, Snake, and Mewtwo are all hard counters, you may as well just switch characters against any of them, MK is closer to 6:4, Pit probably 5.5:4.5, and Link is just like Marth only worse because he has better projectiles, Zelda is not even probably 6:4 in her favor, she doesn't really have to outplay Peach to win she can kind of just throw out hitboxes and Peach just has to respect them I agree with Roy and Ike. Other than that, Wolf and Squirtle are probably even, not really sure about ROB or Olimar, I think she beats everyone else.

 

[_Keno_]

Imo, Fox is way harder than Falcon easily 7:3 Fox as it is in Melee.

You obviously haven't met a skilled falcon then. And fox isn't 7:3 in melee. You pull that number from an '07 chart? Same with the shiek matchup, especially now that her d-throw was butchered. Try using bair more, it pretty much beats out all of her moves. Literally Cort's melee guide says "bair more" about sheik, and after some practice I found out it was right.

People seemed to think zelda was a magical peach counter, even in melee. Really just nobody has the matchup experience imo (I had my brother and Zone). The biggest upset in melee by a zelda was cosmo versus MacD, which I saw live (I was shuddering at his ignorance the entire time). She's honestly not as difficult as people think. I would agree that it's closer to even in PM, but heavily in peach's favor in melee.

 

[MisterCTM]

Try using bair more

Always use bair more. Bair is an amazing move.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Zelda vs Peach in Melee is slightly in Peach's Favor (6:4) and stage dependent (less space = Zelda gets easier stuff, more space = Peach gets more free follow-ups with turnips).

In P:M it's in Zelda's favor. I don't know who the hell you are playing, but it's not even close in being in Peach's side. Zelda all the way lol

That is just simply not true.

Then you are bad.

She has an easier matchup against Jiggz, she destroys Dedede, has strong points against Olimar (probably her harder matchup in the tier LOL), beats Ganon, had an incredibly easy matchup against Squirtle, Weegee is the same **** as Melee, against Yoshi it's historically in her favor, she has a good matchup against Lucario and playing against ROB is like playing a Peach ditto (and I'm not even joking).

Until she meets C.Falcon in the tier list, she has good head to heads against everybody.

 

[deadjames]

Zelda vs Peach in Melee is slightly in Peach's Favor (6:4) and stage dependent (less space = Zelda gets easier stuff, more space = Peach gets more free follow-ups with turnips).

In P:M it's in Zelda's favor. I don't know who the hell you are playing, but it's not even close in being in Peach's side. Zelda all the way lol



Then you are bad.

She has an easier matchup against Jiggz, she destroys Dedede, has strong points against Olimar (probably her harder matchup in the tier LOL), beats Ganon, had an incredibly easy matchup against Squirtle, Weegee is the same **** as Melee, against Yoshi it's historically in her favor, she has a good matchup against Lucario and playing against ROB is like playing a Peach ditto (and I'm not even joking).

Until she meets C.Falcon in the tier list, she has good head to heads against everybody.

There isn't a tier list for 3.5, I thought you were saying she beats everyone except Falcon. Dedede is definitely even, she combos him really hard but a good Dedede will zone her out and his utilt is a huge deterrent to trying to float neutral, Squirtle is also even Peach can't challenge him in the ground, but he can't challenge her in the air, Luigi is significantly harder than Melee, but still in Peach's favor, that MU was super free in Melee, I think Ganon wins now, it was 55:45 Peach before, but Ganon got crazy buffed in 3.5. I don't see how ROB is anything like a Peach ditto, his normals outspace hers and his projectiles are better, I don't have a ton of experience in that MU, but I don't see how it would be even for Peach, she historically struggles with range and disjoints.

 

[Jmanthedragonguy]

Always use bair more. Bair is an amazing move.

When spacing back airs, do you guys just shuffle retreating back airs, or do you do a brief float to float cancel them?

Bonus question: I'm having trouble getting my up throw, up air to connect off of platforms. (battlefield usually) How does Armada make it look so seamless? How exactly do I go about doing this? Do I short-hop, full hop, fast fall, float etc? I'm having trouble getting the tech chase without just full hopping and floating right under them, but It seems slow and predictable? Also, should I wait to make a tech read, or should I just jump up quick enough to try and get it off and continue the combo?

 

[G13_Flux]

falcon will always remain one of peaches hardest MUs. roys up there, but he has less ways to deal with turnips than marth does (second hit of nair is no use, less ground speed). CCing is also one of roys absolute biggest weaknesses, moreso than marth due to range differences. ike i do not believe is bad for peach at all. he doesnt have the speed up close to contend with her, and has worse options to deal with her turnips than both roy and marth.

fox is still hard, although easier than melee, since lower KB on up smash, easier to escape shield pressure (although by one frame, since no invincibility on shine), less damaging lasers at distances, and buffs that peach got. falco im convinced is in peaches favor now. the MU was basically even in melee, and now that nair can chew through the sourspot of dair, its going to make things definitely easier. MK is relatively even i believe. he is very CCable, is a fast faller, AND you dont have to worry about kill combos from grabs, at least as much, from what i understand about MK. this MU comes down to good edge guarding.

M2 is definitely a relative counter to peach, although not a hard counter, as you have a better neutral game than M2. link isnt a counter to peach once you understand how to nair and bair through rangs, and once you figure out how what to do with bombs, which is more of a general tactic of how any character should play link in neutral. shiek and zelda will be hell to deal with.

only notable MUs i see against peach are falcon, fox, M2, shiek/zelda, ZSS, ivy, lucas, marth and roy. the marth MU wasnt great in melee, but now that peach has a legit kill option out of a grab than isnt fthrow, its going to make this MU a bit easier and more rewarding for youre struggles in neutral. id say the hardest counters to her remain fox and falcon, with ZSS potentially being added to that list.

 

[deadjames]

Peach definitely beats Lucas. Also please explain how Peach's neutral game is better than Mewtwo's, he has more range, a better projectile, a teleport that he can act out of, is faster in the air and on the ground, can move in any direction during his hover, has a command grab that can reflect projectiles, and has a wavedash that doesn't suck.

 

[MisterCTM]

When spacing back airs, do you guys just shuffle retreating back airs, or do you do a brief float to float cancel them?

ALWAYS FC your grounded aerials. Always. It's barely any slower than shffling, I don't know the frame data for P.M, but in Melee, for instance, a frame perfect FC Nair OOS is only 1 frame slower than a DJC nair OOS. For insta-float FC'd moves, I can't imagine it is more than 3 frames longer than shffling or DJCing. However, it is almost never a good idea to just sit there and do multiple FC'd bairs/nairs, as, while they're real fast, the opponent will have no difficulty finding an opening and punishing you for it. You probably would want to FC a bair and then pivot grab, or - while rarely - dsmash. Maybe even an fsmash. Or perhaps a whiffed bair to space and then do a FC nair as a mixup. There's a lot of options out of a FC'd move, like literally anything. FC'd bair, pivot, wavedash, then dtilt if they are approaching with an attack that will whiff if you wavedash away is one option. Wavedash away -> dtilt is a good defensive manuvour in Melee, and while I don't think it is necessarily as good in P:M as it is in Melee, it's still pretty good, especially if your opponent is not expecting it (which, unless they also play Melee, they probably aren't expecting, at least the first time).

 

[MisterCTM]

Luigi is significantly harder than Melee, but still in Peach's favor, that MU was super free in Melee

How the hell is the matchup super free in melee? It's definitly even, MAYBE 45 - 55 Luigi Peach.

MK is relatively even i believe... this MU comes down to good edge guarding.

now that peach has a legit kill option out of a grab than isnt fthrow

I disagree for the most part with your assesment of the MK MU, but I agree that edge guarding is key in the matchup. However, how the hell do you go out and edge guard MK? Whever I try to float out and get him he just uses the stupid drill or up-b or just throws out a move and there's like nothing I can do about it it feels.

Also what's this legit kill option out of a grab that isn't fthrow?

 

[_Keno_]

Also what's this legit kill option out of a grab that isn't fthrow?

If you know that they're terrible at DI'ing, d-throw nair works lol

Otherwise, I think peach is terrible at killing in this game if the other person has proper DI. Especially on the big stages like dreamland (where she used to be so good in melee). I f'aired a mario at 160 percent (between center stage and the edge) and he lived. It was so sad. The angle needs to be sharper, or at least the max DI angle (which is like 50 degrees apparently).

Is knockback decay a thing in this game? Cause that would explain a lot.

 

[_Keno_]

double post...

 

[MTL Kyle]

Peach definitely beats Lucas

Not sure how things are in 3.5, but in 3.02 this match-up was easily a 7-3 for Lucas.

 

[_Keno_]

I'll never understand where you people are pulling these numbers. 7-3 a full counter... At least give reasons or something.

 

[MisterCTM]

I'll never understand where you people are pulling these numbers. 7-3 a full counter... At least give reasons or something.

Peach gets hit by a single PK Freeze, pretty much say goodbye to your stock if you're near the edge. If you're in the middle, well, I hope you enjoy the 80% off of an autocombo, that can usually end in a upsmash or a bair spike.

 

[MTL Kyle]

I'll never understand where you people are pulling these numbers.

Maybe because you are bad and never played any half decent Lucas ? Or you just don't stop to think about stuff and understand the intricacies about the matchups.

Either way, it's on you, not on me. Match-up numbers are completely subjective and I don't expect people to fully agree to my statements, let alone someone that doesn't even use common sense.