How do I really improve

[Foxus]

Instead of failing-terribly. 5th day of nothing but losses, then got tired of getting pummeled and DC'd during battle. As its apparent, I pink slipped Yoshi for Fox. You could give me every Fox guide on the planet on the planet (trust me, I've studied them) but that wouldn't do zip because the literature didn't help. I've looked at YouTube videos from users like Zero, tried mimicking those moves, still no progress. At a certain point, the losses have to come to an end. This isn't even in FG, its in FF.

So what am I left to do? The guides on here don't help and countless videos on YouTube don't help either. Maybe for starters we could try solving this program. I lack the ability to adapt...at all. I enter a match, and immediately go into panic mode (no, this isn't the nervous wreck fiasco I noted earlier, this is different) plus, I'm not a mind reader, so I can't tell what the opponent is thinking or plotting. I'm virtually blind, that's the point. Its like playing online with a blind person, without the person actually being blind.





FOOTNOTE: I'm keeping track of these threads as I progress, therefore the reason other than much needed outreach, I create them.

 

[1FC0]

Just practice a lot. And maybe you should try practicing in an environment that is more suitable for competitive play since items and other players may interfere with training. I think that the more your victory depends on skill the better you can train.

Also enjoy the game. If you enjoy it and practice then you will probably get good though it may take a few months.

 

[TempestSurge]

Not sure how crazy or silly this is going to sound but I actually use tournaments to practice more so over 1v1 For Glory mode (and by tournaments I mean the ones in the 'Regular tourney' section with the brackets).

Your wins/losses aren't recorded in tourneys so it's basically a way to play and have fun without the impending pressure of always worrying about your lose streak or whatever. It's also a plus that you see your opponent like once and then move on so less chances of annoying salty insults in tags from a win/lose.

And on that note, it really helps you to learn how to adapt on the spot if that's an ability you're having trouble with since you don't really get a chance to rematch your opponent like you can in 1v1 For Glory. So if you come across a strategy you're having trouble with in a tournament, it's either learn to find a way to overcome it or lose the match. Which losing isn't that big of a deal since it doesn't record it. And I kinda hope that this is true and I haven't just overlooked something due to laziness but eh.

I also suggest playing in For Glory teams if 1v1 is a bit too much pressure, makes you go blank, nervousness etc. since... okay wow I actually had to get up and do something when I was typing this last part and I totally blanked on my other reasons I was prepared to say. Um well this was kind of long anyways, but I played in Teams to practice a bit on fighting real people (without 1v1 pressure) and improving on my playstyle, learning the ins and outs of your character, adjusting approaches/punishes that worked/didn't work etc. But yeah as 1FC0 said above. It's just about practicing and learning from your mistakes and enjoying the game while you're at it.

 

[YoshiYoshi]

Instead of failing-terribly. 5th day of nothing but losses, then got tired of getting pummeled and DC'd during battle. As its apparent, I pink slipped Yoshi for Fox. You could give me every Fox guide on the planet on the planet (trust me, I've studied them) but that wouldn't do zip because the literature didn't help. I've looked at YouTube videos from users like Zero, tried mimicking those moves, still no progress. At a certain point, the losses have to come to an end. This isn't even in FG, its in FF.

So what am I left to do? The guides on here don't help and countless videos on YouTube don't help either. Maybe for starters we could try solving this program. I lack the ability to adapt...at all. I enter a match, and immediately go into panic mode (no, this isn't the nervous wreck fiasco I noted earlier, this is different) plus, I'm not a mind reader, so I can't tell what the opponent is thinking or plotting. I'm virtually blind, that's the point. Its like playing online with a blind person, without the person actually being blind.

FOOTNOTE: I'm keeping track of these threads as I progress, therefore the reason other than much needed outreach, I create them.

I think you already said what you're problem is - you lack the ability to adapt. I don't think this is a problem that you can't solve, you just have to be more patient and learn MUs better.

People talk about neutral state, advantaged state, and disadvantaged state. That is all good to know. Don't throw out unsafe attacks unless you know they will hit. Space with quick air attacks to control space. Use projectiles to force approaches which you can then predict and punish. React to their actions with as much force as possible but no more.

You should also understand the nature of match-ups - one character is typically the aggressor in a match-up and the other is not necessarily defensive, but reactive. For example, a character who is free to zone out certain approaches with projectiles can easily predict and react to attempts to break out of that zone. The pressure is on the aggressor to approach, but their target is free to react to their limited options.

Recognize whether your opponent is trying to play aggressively or reactively and respond with however your character best handles those two states of gameplay. Sometimes aggression is best fought with either aggression or reaction and vice versa.

Force people into roles that are not comfortable with (ex. projectile spam Ganon so he must approach).

 

[Sari]

You should post one of your replays here (or maybe on the Fox critique thread) so people can point out your mistakes and give you specific tips on improving.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

have you spent a while in training mode just practicing throw combos?

 

[Turrin]

As a player with quite a bit of experience on trying to improve, here's the basic stuff that has helped me immeasurably:

1. Fight level threes. Get your combos down so freaking hard that you don't even think about doing them. Downthrow --> F-air 50 times. If you mess up once, start over. Short-hop N-air 50 times in a row. Just get comfortable with your specific character.

2. I can't exactly tell you to just flip a switch in your brain, but stop caring about winning in For Glory matches. Seriously. The thing that's helped me is to switch your focus - it's not the win ratio that marks your improvement, but the total number of matches. It doesn't matter how bad you are now - if your total match count goes up, your win rate will slightly increase along with it, because it's not like you can get worse at the game by practicing.

3. I've started uploading a few of my matches to Youtube so that I can analyze and pause the video. Record yourself playing a match and every time you get hit, stop the video and ask yourself (for example):
"How did that Falcon hit me with a charged F-smash? Because I thought he'd back roll. From now on, I should wait for my opponent to actually commit to something before going to punish."

4.

https://www.youtube.com/user/shadowstar120

I don't know if you've watched any of his videos, but Jtails is the most educational Smash streamer out there, in my opinion. While he's in the middle of a match, he'll take the time to explain what's smart in a certain situation and how he figures out what his opponent is going to do. It's much better than watching random matches with no commentary. He's put out two videos on Fox if you want to take a look.

Edit: You also said in your OP that you're losing in for fun mode. If you're trying to get better competitively, do not play For Fun mode. I can just imagine trying to analyze one of those matches:
"Hm, okay, what mistake killed me there? ...Oh. Random BS bob-omb spawned in mid-air and blew me to pieces. Guess I'll just have to get better so that doesn't happen."

 

[Foxus]

I went into FG once, thinking people were as bad as people here say on there, I got my ass whooped twice and long story short, it was quite a negative experience. Ass whoopings don't help someone get better.

I don't know how to transfer replays from the Wii U to a computer (not that I use the replay feature in the first place), but it does sound like a good idea, as humiliating as the replays might seem. I'm not the most tech savvy so to speak.

I've done my fair share of practicing combos in training mode.

Maybe if there were a way I could upload my matches to YouTube and set it as private, so in case its a replay of me getting bodied, the whole world doesn't have access to the footage.

 

[Turrin]

If you select a replay and hit "send" you get this. Just make sure you have a youtube account you can log into, and once it's uploaded there is an option to hide it from public view if you want.

 

[Sari]

I went into FG once, thinking people were as bad as people here say on there, I got my *** whooped twice and long story short, it was quite a negative experience. *** whoopings don't help someone get better.

I don't know how to transfer replays from the Wii U to a computer (not that I use the replay feature in the first place), but it does sound like a good idea, as humiliating as the replays might seem. I'm not the most tech savvy so to speak.

I've done my fair share of practicing combos in training mode.

Maybe if there were a way I could upload my matches to YouTube and set it as private, so in case its a replay of me getting bodied, the whole world doesn't have access to the footage.

Just use the in-game Youtube upload feature, then immediately set the video as unlisted as soon as it uploads.

EDIT: 'd

 

[Nexin]

I have a philosophy when it comes to fighting games: "In order to win, you must first lose." What that means is that there isn't a way that you are going to improve quickly. When you lose, you have to figure out why you lost, figure out what you could have done differently, and implement that into your playstyle. It's not fun, and it is a long process, so you need both a massive amount of determination as well as a good attitude towards losing if you wish to improve in the long run.

Edit: @ Turrin also gave some very good advice. It isn't always possible due to the upload feature having a 3 minute time limit if I remember correctly, but since you can't rewind replays in this game, uploading a match to Youtube and watching it there is your best option if it is possible.

 

[Nah]

Yeah.....For Fun mode is just that: for fun. It's really not a good place to go to to improve and/or gauge your level of skill.

You can also go down to the Fox boards and see if you can get one of them to fight you and give you some critiques and such on your gameplay after they see it firsthand (this is especially good if the Youtube thing isn't an option). You also will be able to see how a better Fox than you fights to boot.

1. Fight level threes. Get your combos down so freaking hard that you don't even think about doing them. Downthrow --> F-air 50 times. If you mess up once, start over. Short-hop N-air 50 times in a row.

I've heard a few different people recommend this bit before, but I've never gotten why exactly. Why specifically level 3s?

 

[Turrin]

I've heard a few different people recommend this bit before, but I've never gotten why exactly. Why specifically level 3s?

I'm not exactly sure myself, but I would assume it's because level threes are the closest representation of a real fight without being able to fight back too much (maybe air-dodge AI changes past level 3?). To be real, though, any level would work fine that poses no threat to you.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Here's a very good question: just how much can you push yourself to play at most best and optimal performance as possible? Can you do that in a regular basis? This is basically playing to the very damn best you can, avoiding everything unsafe and doing rapid-fire right choices in the middle of fighting - maximizing everything you know and you can do on the situation and current fight at hand to win over your opponent. This means doing both good offense, defense, change of playstyle and most importantly, keeping your momentum going and never letting go. Otherwise you can't "keep up" with your opponent and might possibly give them little challenge.

At first this might chicken you out since you said you go instantly to panic mode, but over time with regular practice and exposing yourself to put it all to the fight, you not only learn how you tick and what needs to be fixed or improved over upon, but it turns the fights to less "this guy's clearly the better" and more to a true type of competitive fight where the outcome isn't so easy to determine because both stack in everything they know (if they have average-to-above-average skill.)

I tried this as of late and all of a sudden I've found myself being able to push myself to a rush of flow more than ever before. So I suggest trying this - it can make the fights more exciting. And don't be afraid of losing, just enjoy the whole match and what flying colors you create when you'll stack your skills against your opponent.

 

[Senko Zero]

I have a philosophy when it comes to fighting games: "In order to win, you must first lose." What that means is that there isn't a way that you are going to improve quickly. When you lose, you have to figure out why you lost, figure out what you could have done differently, and implement that into your playstyle. It's not fun, and it is a long process, so you need both a massive amount of determination as well as a good attitude towards losing if you wish to improve in the long run.

Heh, you and I give similar advice Nexin.

To add to this, one really good way to improve is when you lose (especially to good players), see what they are doing to YOU.

Watch and then ask; Are they reading my patterns? Am I not pressuring them enough so that they are given free space to breath? Am I not spacing/timing my moves well enough so that they are punishing me? Are my defensive opitions (air/spot dodge) being too easy to predict so they get a lot of free damage?

Take a replay or two and see what the answers to those questions are. You'll be surprised what you'll come up with.

To add one more point to the OP, trying to mimcing players won't ever work. You can copy a combo, do a long winded pressure string, follow a grab setup. However, unless you know the reasons and mindset behind it and how thye make it work it won't for you.

Don't try to be like someone else. Make up your own style. You'll get a lot farther.

Good luck.

 

[TempestSurge]

Heh, you and I give similar advice Nexin.

To add to this, one really good way to improve is when you lose (especially to good players), see what they are doing to YOU.

Watch and then ask; Are they reading my patterns? Am I not pressuring them enough so that they are given free space to breath? Am I not spacing/timing my moves well enough so that they are punishing me? Are my defensive opitions (air/spot dodge) being too easy to predict so they get a lot of free damage?

Take a replay or two and see what the answers to those questions are. You'll be surprised what you'll come up with.

To add one more point to the OP, trying to mimcing players won't ever work. You can copy a combo, do a long winded pressure string, follow a grab setup. However, unless you know the reasons and mindset behind it and how thye make it work it won't for you.

Don't try to be like someone else. Make up your own style. You'll get a lot farther.

Good luck.

Oh you just reminded me. I forgot to address that part in my earlier post. But pretty much the same sentiments you mentioned about the playstyle. I tried reading guides/watching videos only for me to go completely blank once the match start, or just get bodied from trying to awkwardly play the character a certain way and failing.

It's certainly better to let your 'mistakes' shape your playstyle. Learning what doesn't work and adjusting accordingly. Also it's so much fun when you play a certain character in a way that's not common, most people don't expect it and you become less predictable from the 'formula' that most people are so used to.