• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

How can you play fox in good conscience?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
Yea I was wondering today. Since fox is so dang good, then dont you even feel a little bit bad about using him against an opponent as your first choice, or even a last resort, I mean come on, if its not, upsmash, its up throw > Up air, if its not that its shine spike, or waveshine > Shine spike, Is there no end! Anyway, Im not trying to diss fox players cause ya know, I am one to! So the question is asked.

can you beat some one with fox in good conscience?
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
MI
yes. because i started playing this game as fox before i knew about tier lists or advanced techniques or anything. so i mainly play fox because i always have. I first started playing him for his shine. but not what you're thinking. The main competition in my home town was a spamus, and i wanted to reflect his homing missiles. I once heard good advice about this game: you have to play cheap to win. so i figure playing cheap isn't cheap at all, cause that's what everyone else is trying to do. except CF mains. they just use their awesome manlyness skillz and win anyway. go them.

btw, are you zodiac lucien? as in the one from revo-lucien? sorry if i spelled that wrong.
 

Goldkirby

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
529
Location
Los Angeles
No, because fox has been my first and favorite character in both smash games. I played as fox back when ssb64 came out, and when I started melee in December, I decided to stay with fox. I didn't know about the tier lists until a few months later. Besides, at the beginner level, like me, fox is still somewhat difficult to handle, and I sd a lot.
 

Impact009

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
207
Location
The Woodlands, Texas
My main was Fox in SSB on the N64. I have no qualms for using Fox at all, because they need to be better than me or live with it. My goal in SSBM is to defeat my opponent, and there's no better way to assure victory than by playing my best and faltering as little as possible. Why would I use a character that I'm not as good with? If somebody's better than me, then great; I have somebody that will help me improve. If not, then too bad; deal with it or play somebody/something else.
 

Giggidax

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
774
Location
Virginia Beach, Virginia
wat are u trying to say zodiac? fox isnt even that godlike to be feeling sorry when u use him. watch some zelgadis videos, or some of the recent japanese fox smashers. they dont win all the time, even with the large amount of tech skill they have.

i like ur sig grey fox lol trigun is sweet
 

Tundravalco

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
399
Location
New Jersey
i hate every day that i have to hear the character announcer guy say fox because hes no fun at all. my first character was ganondorf when i started playing alittle more than a year ago and my friends and i were all even until we learned some advanced techniques sped our games up and i just lagged behind. my friends play marth falco and captain falcon by the way and they said why dont you pick fox hes pretty good ( i still didnt know about tiers then and they had some idea of it) so i picked him up and for about 7 months straight its been mostly wins but i play ganondorf as my second so its not that bad.
 

brianmercury

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
27
In my mind winning a tournament as fox vs low tier characters is no different. As said before fox is not invincible, look at the mlg scene, does everyone play fox? Heck no, look at mlg Long Island, Bum was owning foxes and falcons alike, as Dk! This was M2K and Isai and other pros! The tiers are merely a rough guidline, mostly based on popularity. If more people play fox, more foxes win tourneys, thats what the tiers are based on, and more people help each other and give each other advice to improve the fox community making him the best. I don't see people complaining about sheik now, even though in the past shiek was top tier, now that she is less popular and has dropped down a few people don't see her as cheap. Fox is difficult to learn, fox mains are by no means taking the easy path, he requires a great deal of tech skill, quick thinking, and intelligent play to use. My friends complain about the shine constantly, but where they to try to use it they couldn't do squat with it, you can't just throw it out there, you need to use it intelligently and in conjunction with l-canceling attacking and movement techniques. People complain about fox because they don't want to put in the time to use him, and his popularity lends it's self to an excuse for losing to him, even if other characters may have all of the potential he does. For every combo fox has, there an equal number of combos that he specificly gets owned by. I have put a great deal of time into my fox and there is nothing on my conscience at all when it pays off.
 

brianmercury

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
27
If played by gods fox would be invincible. He would do everything before any other character.
Not true, he would get out prioritized, beaten at different ranges, like marth's tiper range, and his fast falling would prolong the god combos. Even in the hands of gods fox is not invincible. Speed is not everything.
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
MI
yeah, and one can only shine so many times in a given amount of time, so even then, his speed is limited.
 

doyoung2win

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
916
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
If played by gods fox would be invincible. He would do everything before any other character.
as stated by several other people. you are "FAILURE!" -in break the targets voice.

if played to the frame, bowser can beat everyone and at the best people can tie with him because his up b will clink with the shine and he can do it again before fox shines again. also hes invincible so gg. best edgeattack too.
 

Giggidax

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
774
Location
Virginia Beach, Virginia
Not true, he would get out prioritized, beaten at different ranges, like marth's tiper range, and his fast falling would prolong the god combos. Even in the hands of gods fox is not invincible. Speed is not everything.
this statement lacks the possible variant of mindgames
marth may have range, but hes also floaty. its also not hard to waveshield marths fsmashes either.
noone is saying speed is the only thing fox has. he also has upsmash.. :D

yeah, and one can only shine so many times in a given amount of time, so even then, his speed is limited.
watr u talking about? doing as many shines as u can in a match isnt gonna get u a win. well most of the time it wont.
 

TedBoosley

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
657
Location
Orlando, Florida
The problem that people have with fox (and Falco for that matter) is that all it takes to win matches with him is technical skill. You don't really need any sort of prediction, any sort of foresight, and you don't really need to trick your opponent. You just need to fly at your opponent with fingers blazing.

While obviously this isn't enough to compete at top top level (I'd say the brackets at a huge tournament after multiple pools would be considered top level), it's definitely enough to win matches that, with your current ability to complete such mental tasks as space, predict, etc, you would not be able to win with another character like Marth, Falcon, or Sheik.

Fox and Falco are the easiest characters to play at a high level, and that's why they piss people off.
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
MI
i was only saying that fox only has limited speed, when played by a god.

and at TedBoosley, that's not really true at all, once you get to the level where everyone can L-cancel and do basic adv techniques, it's way more about the mental game, than the tech game.

And while fox/falco may be the easiest to play at a high level, it takes longer to get there. also pissing ppl off.
 

TedBoosley

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
657
Location
Orlando, Florida
i was only saying that fox only has limited speed, when played by a god.

and at TedBoosley, that's not really true at all, once you get to the level where everyone can L-cancel and do basic adv techniques, it's way more about the mental game, than the tech game.

And while fox/falco may be the easiest to play at a high level, it takes longer to get there. also pissing ppl off.
Maybe I'm just used to Florida, where even players that barely make brackets (or don't) can waveshine, SHFFL flawlessly and where even average Falcos bair from shine like it's nothing. Florida is more about tech than mindgames compared to other regions, so I can definitely tell you I'm right here. I've seen the new and fast Foxes and Falcos beat seasoned Marths and Sheiks many times.
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
MI
i wasn't really commenting on that, i'm just saying that once you get two ppl who can do that ****, the winner will be the one who has better mindgames, not the one with better tech skill (unless one has WAY better tech skill).
 

TedBoosley

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
657
Location
Orlando, Florida
i wasn't really commenting on that, i'm just saying that once you get two ppl who can do that ****, the winner will be the one who has better mindgames, not the one with better tech skill (unless one has WAY better tech skill).
Alright, say a Marth and a Fox are playing against each other, and have even tech skill (considering their respective characters) and the Marth has alright prediction and other mindgames (medium) and the fox has poor mindgames (low), who would win? The fox.

Here's a diagram:

TOTAL ABILITY TO WIN A MATCH

Fox: <----------------------------><---->
________Tech Skill_______Mind Games__

Marth: <---------><-------->

As you can see, Fox has more total ability to win, because the x amount of tech skill contributes more to Fox's ability to win by more than it helps Marth, wheras y amount of mind games assists both characters evenly.

Conclusion: Fox is easier to win with at a high level.

It's a pretty ghetto diagram, but it gets what I'm saying through much easier than trying to type out of a huge block of text.
 

Seison

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
220
Alright, say a Marth and a Fox are playing against each other, and have even tech skill (considering their respective characters) and the Marth has alright prediction and other mindgames (medium) and the fox has poor mindgames (low), who would win? The fox.

Here's a diagram:

TOTAL ABILITY TO WIN A MATCH

Fox: <----------------------------><---->
________Tech Skill_______Mind Games__

Marth: <---------><-------->

As you can see, Fox has more total ability to win, because the x amount of tech skill contributes more to Fox's ability to win by more than it helps Marth, wheras y amount of mind games assists both characters evenly.

Conclusion: Fox is easier to win with at a high level.

It's a pretty ghetto diagram, but it gets what I'm saying through much easier than trying to type out of a huge block of text.
The problem that people have with fox (and Falco for that matter) is that all it takes to win matches with him is technical skill. You don't really need any sort of prediction, any sort of foresight, and you don't really need to trick your opponent. You just need to fly at your opponent with fingers blazing.
wow, both of those statements are bs. Anyone with a solid mindgame is going to be able to **** the approach of a fox or falco who is only skilled in technical ability. If all you do is rush your opponent with "fingers blazing" you're going to lose. When playing the space animals, there is a huge mental factor involved, not just technical skill, to say otherwise is just making excuses for why you lose to them.
 

Ijuka

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
673
Alright, say a Marth and a Fox are playing against each other, and have even tech skill (considering their respective characters) and the Marth has alright prediction and other mindgames (medium) and the fox has poor mindgames (low), who would win? The fox.

Here's a diagram:

TOTAL ABILITY TO WIN A MATCH

Fox: <----------------------------><---->
________Tech Skill_______Mind Games__

Marth: <---------><-------->

As you can see, Fox has more total ability to win, because the x amount of tech skill contributes more to Fox's ability to win by more than it helps Marth, wheras y amount of mind games assists both characters evenly.

Conclusion: Fox is easier to win with at a high level.

It's a pretty ghetto diagram, but it gets what I'm saying through much easier than trying to type out of a huge block of text.
I can confidently say you don't know a thing about high level play.

Mindgames=important. You get outsmarted vs Marth once=you get grabbed=you die.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
Location
the west
Yea I was wondering today. Since fox is so dang good, then dont you even feel a little bit bad about using him against an opponent as your first choice, or even a last resort, I mean come on, if its not, upsmash, its up throw > Up air, if its not that its shine spike, or waveshine > Shine spike, Is there no end! Anyway, Im not trying to diss fox players cause ya know, I am one to! So the question is asked.

can you beat some one with fox in good conscience?
What do you gain from asking someone that?
Apparently a flame war >.>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom