How can I use Brawl Falco in Project M?

[Celestis]

That's what I feel, too. I don't tend to like straight up clones, and while I love Melee, one of my issues with it were the numerous clones. And Dr. Mario was the biggest example of that. Falcon and Ganondorf were the only 'clones' in Melee that felt different enough.
I much prefer what Brawl did with Falco.

But there really is nothing clone like about Fox and Falco play style. They play so different sharing nothing but similar animations.

 

[GaretHax]

That's what I feel, too. I don't tend to like straight up clones, and while I love Melee, one of my issues with it were the numerous clones. And Dr. Mario was the biggest example of that. Falcon and Ganondorf were the only 'clones' in Melee that felt different enough.
I much prefer what Brawl did with Falco.

You are either judging the character on entirely superficial characteristics, or have no idea what you're talking about. Also holding to the belief that a fighting game character has more "personality" than its' previous iteration, without any kind of meaningful story, personality/character defining moments, is probably not a very sound opinion to hold. I'm really not trying to sound like an ass here, but if you actually play Fox and Falco you will quickly realize their kits in-n-way resemble each other. And as an added bonus PM Falco, unlike Brawl Falco, doesn't completely rely on chain grabs and frame-traps.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I actually really started having fun with Brawl once I mastered the Falco CG.

See, I have a group of friends who are kind of split on Brawl and PM

So due to lack of enough PM players I decided to one day pick the character that would cause their mains the most grief. Over the next two days I mastered SHDL and the Dthrow CG.

Now it's summer and I'm practicing Brawl ever so often between my PM play sessions

WAITING

Winter is coming

 

[Juken]

I like Brawl Falco's moveset aesthetically over his Melee one. He seems a lot more unique with the animations he does. Like his F-air being the drill peck, and his F-smash being that cool looking wing swing. It'd be cool if someone took some of his Brawl animations that would work well with his Project M moveset, and added them to his PM moveset so that his attacks would work the same way, but at least some of them won't look as if they were copy/pasted from Fox's animation sheet (not firing shots at PMBR, but perhaps at melee devs). Then Falco's moves could look as different from Fox as they work.

Alright, I'll send it as soon as I get home.

Why not just upload it to Brawl Vault. I, and probably many others, would like to at least try it out. Although I believe PM Falco is more fun, I've always been interested in seeing how Brawl Falco's moves would hold up. Would be cool if PMBR did something where you could choose alt movesets, but I know that'll never be a thing.

 

[Deleted member]

You are either judging the character on entirely superficial characteristics, or have no idea what you're talking about.

But there really is nothing clone like about Fox and Falco play style. They play so different sharing nothing but similar animations.

Everybody knows that Fox and Falco play differently. However, they are aesthetic clones. There are a lot of people out there who would like a character to not only play uniquely but to also look unique while doing it. There isn't anything wrong with that. Contrary to what some "hard-core" gamers might tell you, aesthetics do matter. If they didn't matter, we'd all be satisfied with watching a bunch of stick figures duke it out on a minimally shaded, featureless background.

 

[Juken]

Contrary to what some "hard-core" gamers might tell you, aesthetics do matter. If they didn't matter, we'd all be satisfied with watching a bunch of stick figures duke it out on a minimally shaded, featureless background.

And that wavedash online game kickstarter would have succeeded :V

 

[AuraWielder]

On another note, I also wanted to ask:
Does anyone here have a Brawl Toon Link mod for Project M? Toon Link was my other main in Project M, and I really didn't like how he was re-worked into 'Young Link' from Melee. But to be honest, PM:Falco and PM:Toon Link are my only issues with Project M as a whole.
Anyway, back to the question. Does anyone have a mod that will allow me to use Brawl Toon Link in Project M with Project M physics? You know, much like a person earlier on here kindly gave me the Falco mod. If no one has one, then could I be redirected to a site/person that does have one?

 

[alex6309]

/Flame Shield Activate
I actually made a Brawl Falco with Project M physics. I have two versions actually. One with Melee Shine and one where he kicks it. If you want one, I'll send it to you.
(I recommend the one with the Melee shine. But, Both are jump cancel capable.)

Could you PM me that mod too? I'd be interested in having it with the Brawl Shine)

 

[AndrewGuy]

On another note, I also wanted to ask:
Does anyone here have a Brawl Toon Link mod for Project M? Toon Link was my other main in Project M, and I really didn't like how he was re-worked into 'Young Link' from Melee. But to be honest, PM:Falco and PM:Toon Link are my only issues with Project M as a whole.
Anyway, back to the question. Does anyone have a mod that will allow me to use Brawl Toon Link in Project M with Project M physics? You know, much like a person earlier on here kindly gave me the Falco mod. If no one has one, then could I be redirected to a site/person that does have one?

I'll start working on this later today.

Could you PM me that mod too? I'd be interested in having it with the Brawl Shine)

Sure. I need to fix something so dash dancing works on that version of it. But, that should be fairly quick to do and I'll send it as soon as I'm done.

 

[Celestis]

Still gonna send it to me, right?

 

[Juken]

I still think uploading to brawl vault would be a better idea so that people don't spam you with pms, and so it's easier access for all.

 

[poodoas]

yes you should upload it to the brawl vault as I want it also or maybe just post a mediafire link here or something

 

[-Dubs]

Brawl over Melee ? You kidding?
Besides, no clones play similarly except Mario and Doc.

 

[Thor]

Brawl over Melee ? You kidding?

Brawl Falco has incredible defensive tools in his great jab, reasonable ftilt, and SHDL + IAP [and occasional reflector], an all-purpose throw that also CGs in dthrow, and his phantasm is better for recovery (fire bird is worse distance-wise, but fall speeds are slower so it evens out). His bair was still great and his usmash was better in Brawl, though he lost some fsmash utility and his dtilt became super meh.

Thing is, Brawl Falco would be rather floaty in this game compared to most of the cast, or else if you shorten Firebird and don't keep fallspeed, his recovery becomes even worse.

He also just won't fit with the rest of the cast, and will be inferior in a variety of ways - still a weak recovery, but he doesn't have his amazing shine combos, nair, and dair that made him so dominant in Melee and still usable in PM.

If you do pull this off [which you already have, it seems], Falco will become less offense-oriented. I have my own ideas for a very nice Brawl/Melee Falco mix [keeps a few assets from Melee Falco, but focuses more on Brawl Falco playstyle], but if people don't want them, they don't want them, so I won't offer them unless the OP or other coders are interested. But if your Brawl Falco isn't quite up to snuff, I wouldn't mind offering some ideas.

I'd also love to get the code [my ideas or whatever this is], or at least see footage of this Brawl-esque Falco in PM.

 

[AndrewGuy]

Brawl Falco has incredible defensive tools in his great jab, reasonable ftilt, and SHDL + IAP [and occasional reflector], an all-purpose throw that also CGs in dthrow, and his phantasm is better for recovery (fire bird is worse distance-wise, but fall speeds are slower so it evens out). His bair was still great and his usmash was better in Brawl, though he lost some fsmash utility and his dtilt became super meh.

Thing is, Brawl Falco would be rather floaty in this game compared to most of the cast, or else if you shorten Firebird and don't keep fallspeed, his recovery becomes even worse.

He also just won't fit with the rest of the cast, and will be inferior in a variety of ways - still a weak recovery, but he doesn't have his amazing shine combos, nair, and dair that made him so dominant in Melee and still usable in PM.

If you do pull this off [which you already have, it seems], Falco will become less offense-oriented. I have my own ideas for a very nice Brawl/Melee Falco mix [keeps a few assets from Melee Falco, but focuses more on Brawl Falco playstyle], but if people don't want them, they don't want them, so I won't offer them unless the OP or other coders are interested. But if your Brawl Falco isn't quite up to snuff, I wouldn't mind offering some ideas.

I'd also love to get the code [my ideas or whatever this is], or at least see footage of this Brawl-esque Falco in PM.

My current version of it has melee shine and physics and throws. It has a buffed brawl forward aerial (The drill spin, it does 27% if all hits connect but it's about as hard to do as the melee f-airfoxd neutral aerial (it does 16% if all hits connect and links well with shine combos) it also has brawl forward smash and multi hit up-b (Which does a whopping 31% if all hits connect along with the restored start up flames, but it's nearly impossible and not practical to do in an actual match) The rest is unchanged. I can personally get some decent combos and offensive play off it, but ideas are very welcomed! I'll be uploading this V2 to brawl vault for all to try as well as a test Doctor Mario which shares the same slot with normal Mario using the costume engine. It has to be played different and most attacks are inversed (Get stronger the longer left out) or do completely different things (Down Air is like fox's, Forward air is a consistent meteor smash, Down smash sends straight up) all without changing normal Mario. So essentially a melee Fox/Falco like pair of characters sharing the same slot.

Oh, and the brawlified toonlink I'm nearly done with it.

 

[Thor]

Brawl/Melee Falco ideas [I'm writing as though you're taking the ideas, but feel free to ignore it - I also assume "unchanged" means unchanged from Brawl]:

Jab - frame one or frame 2, should be at least Brawl speed. Jab combo should be Brawl-looking.
Ftilt - whatever, this move is fine in all its forms
utilt - keep Brawl one, a bit of extra IASI frames might not hurt it but Brawl's might be better than I give it credit for.
Dtilt - PM one is better but if it's too good Brawl one is passable I guess
nair- PM nair is just fine
fair - make it Brawl's nair - good carrier move despite range and SHFFLing it can set up a jab or shine - should probably do about 15% if it all connects (4-3-3-5?). Low shield-stun though, because this would be waaay too good on shield otherwise though.
bair - whatever is fine, both bairs are good - leave PM's?
uair - PM uair I guess? I don't really know
dair - Sweetspot is a spike, giving possibility for shine combos (but very precise of course), the late dair has higher BKB to reduce punishment for a connection but a whiff - also makes it a decent edgeguarding move (maybe knock a few points off of KBG). Or just leave PM dair if that's what you meant by unchanged, but that's really good in conjunction with Melee shine of course.

Fall speed - if you alter the dair it should be Brawl fallspeed, if PM dair, it COULD be PM fall speeds but I think Brawl fallspeeds might in theory fit this Falco more - you could also make it a bit faster than Brawl, but slower than PM (maybe Brawl Wolf or Dedede's fallspeed? I've read those are a little more than half as fast as Melee Falco's fallspeed)

Lasers - I like Brawl lasers and SHDL which is why I suggested a more Brawl fall speed. But any of his lasers are good
Side+B - Brawl Phantasm - better distance I believe, so should use that

Usmash - Brawl usmash [pretty sure it's stronger than Melee's]
Fsmash - PM fsmash - Brawl's isn't as good but can use that too
Dsmash - PM dsmash, but lower KBG - his other smashes are much better

All throws but dthrow - whatever, PM or Brawl is fine
Dthrow - much more like Brawl dthrow, but with more BKB to compensate the increased gravity - shouldn't necessarily CG but should probably set up for dair or fair followups if one is fast enough (at least a laser or two, unless they DI up and that's high enough to avoid lasers). KB that's more vertical than horizontal (like 60 degrees above horizontal). Could also be designed to be exactly like Brawl Dthrow, but that seems a bit too good.

These are my somewhat more interesting [crazy] ideas

Fire-Bird - about 1.2X as long as Firefox - he's a bird after all, and PM has generally stronger recoveries - add Brawl's fire hitboxes

Shine - Melee shine (add the invincibility frame back[???]), if you hit A while Falco is in shine he'll kick it like Brawl in the direction he's facing - if you're holding B when it gets back, stay in shine or else it ends, and can JC it on the way back [once it has started to go back to Falco].

DJ height slightly decreased (about 0.7X as high?) [only makes sense if you read the next line]
Jump added [he's a bird] (this is why I figured dair would be much more Brawl-like, or the edgeguards would be too good - also should explain why I'd figured Brawl-esque fall-speeds).

So yeah. If any or all of it sounds good, I'd love to hear about it (or if it's all trash, feel free to say so).

 

[AndrewGuy]

When I said unchanged I meant from Stock PM Falco, I specified what I changed to brawl style. Also a lot of these ideas seem like they have potential so I might make a completely redone Falco using these. Also that double use shine is probably my favorite idea and that I will definitely try to incorporate if I do the completely redone version. Also as soon as I get home I'll upload the current version of it so you all can try it and give me more feedback.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

This sounds amazing. I've always vastly preferred Falco's brawl move-set. Is there anyway his old D-throw CG could be re-added though?

 

[guedes the brawler]

hah, what about instead making Pm characters with brawl physics?

id love to see a Brawl!Roy and a Brawl"Mewtwo...

 

[AndrewGuy]

Hi, Everyone. V2 of the Falco is up on Brawl Vault!
Here's the link: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204763
Make sure and read description, please.

 

[Super_Queijo]

Hi, do you still have that Falco with Brawl shine and PM Physics? I loved your Brawl Styled PM Falco but I prefer the brawl shine than Melee's, I tried editing by copy/paste'ing from a regular FitFalco.pac but it froze when I used the move :/

 

[Celestis]

I tried out the Brawl PM Falco and its pretty decent. But the Nair kills me. I want the solid hit, not that awkward hit it gives me.
I feel like its relatively possible to keep the Brawl animations while making hotboxes work the same as the Melee ones. Some adjustments to the animations of course.

Hi, do you still have that Falco with Brawl shine and PM Physics? I loved your Brawl Styled PM Falco but I prefer the brawl shine than Melee's, I tried editing by copy/paste'ing from a regular FitFalco.pac but it froze when I used the move :/

Taking away Falco's Melee shine takes away like more then half his combo ability.

 

[AndrewGuy]

@ Super_Queijo
I've kinda abandoned that version. If you really want one I can update it.

@ Celestis
I was trying to go for something like PM Wolf's N-Air. I can do an alt version but with Melee N-Air and include it with v3, which I'm actually going to upload tonight

 

[Super_Queijo]

@ Super_Queijo
I've kinda abandoned that version. If you really want one I can update it.

Just PM me what you have if you can, I don't want to give you any trouble.

 

[AndrewGuy]

Just PM me what you have if you can, I don't want to give you any trouble.

Nothing with this ever is a problem... Except if it's trying to get Samus to start with Ice Beam by holding a taunt button. Which I tried for about 5 hours and failed anyway.

 

[Super_Queijo]

Nothing with this ever is a problem... Except if it's trying to get Samus to start with Ice Beam by holding a taunt button. Which I tried for about 5 hours and failed anyway.

Thanks! And good luck with that, my PSA knowledge is very limited. I did manage to make the ganon moveset with the sword to start with the sword but just that, not by holding a button.

 

[mtmaster]

I know this seems like a weird question, but let me explain. I do love Project M, and it's a great mod, but I don't like the 're-cloning' they did with Falco in Project M. I vastly prefer Brawl Falco and like his more unique playstyle better.
I guess I just want to ask, but is there any way to use Brawl Falco in Project M? Is there anything I can do?

You could maybe check kc-mm. There might be someone who has taken the Brawl Falco and altered to work properly with Project M's physics. I know how you feel, as I originally did this with Toon Link as I didn't like how Toon Link had changed, but I eventually changed it back cause I thought it was unfair.

 

[shairn]

You could maybe check kc-mm. There might be someone who has taken the Brawl Falco and altered to work properly with Project M's physics. I know how you feel, as I originally did this with Toon Link as I didn't like how Toon Link had changed, but I eventually changed it back cause I thought it was unfair.

And this is why you read the whole thread before posting
Especially when it's only 2 pages long

 

[mtmaster]

And this is why you read the whole thread before posting
Especially when it's only 2 pages long

Well my bad

 

[Da Man]

Hey AndrewGuy, personally I really hope the PM backroom would consider using your moveset mods for the next version so they can be officially de-cloned again. I like their unique brawl animations myself also and its so stupid what the PM guys did.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Hey AndrewGuy, personally I really hope the PM backroom would consider using your moveset mods for the next version so they can be officially de-cloned again. I like their unique brawl animations myself also and its so stupid what the PM guys did.

They will never do that. You know, PM was made because someone wanted the brawl falco to perform like his more dominate verion; melee falco.

 

[Da Man]

They will never do that. You know, PM was made because someone wanted the brawl falco to perform like his more dominate verion; melee falco.

I figured, could had least kept all his brawl animations but with PM's priority and other things. Then he'd be less boring to use.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I figured, could had least kept all his brawl animations but with PM's priority and other things. Then he'd be less boring to use.

There's nothing boring about him.

 

[Da Man]

There's nothing boring about him.

In AG's mod I agree.

 

[Celestis]

Falco is the origin of PM. Besides, if they kept ALL of his Brawl animations. He would not be as good. His shine in particular. He needs that just like it is in order to pwn as hard as Falco can.

 

[Exodo]

I like both melee and brawl falco, but i was expecting some epic changes like they did with lucas, like people like to point out, project m is not melee, so i hope that in a future we might see a new reworked falco with maybe some new unique moves.

 

[Rage83]

Why is the suggestion of any change to Melee top tiers in a thread simply flooded with "lol no, 2001 Maylay Tup Tiurs ar teh best curekturs der evar wull be." ? This guy's question is a legitimate question. Stop telling people to just play Brawl for the same reason that it irks you for people to say "Just play dat der Maylay on teh Gamekube." We like Project M as a mix of both Melee and Brawl, while leaning a tad more towards the former. If we wanted 1:1 copies of either game, then we would just boot up our Wiis and Gamecubes, take out our controllers, and just play a copy of one of the two titles.

 

[himemiya]

I know this seems like a weird question, but let me explain. I do love Project M, and it's a great mod, but I don't like the 're-cloning' they did with Falco in Project M. I vastly prefer Brawl Falco and like his more unique playstyle better.
I guess I just want to ask, but is there any way to use Brawl Falco in Project M? Is there anything I can do?

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204763

Yeah pmbr could've done more to falco or fox like fuse more brawl in them. It may lower their tier but hey they most likely wouldn't be as broken. PMBR should do there own thing on the melee top tier that haven't changed much, keep in mind they aren't here to please the melee tourney-**** (or at least I hope not).

 

[shapular]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=204763

Yeah pmbr could've done more to falco or fox like fuse more brawl in them. It may lower their tier but hey they most likely wouldn't be as broken. PMBR should do there own thing on the melee top tier that haven't changed much, keep in mind they aren't here to please the melee tourney-**** (or at least I hope not).

Unfortunately, Majin, that's pretty much exactly why they're here. PM was created specifically because some people wanted to use Melee Fox and Falco in Brawl. As much as it should change, it's not going to.

 

[himemiya]

Unfortunately, Majin, that's pretty much exactly why they're here. PM was created specifically because some people wanted to use Melee Fox and Falco in Brawl. As much as it should change, it's not going to.

More to give it new enviroment and it being a more legit sequel.