How can I go against a Diddy?

[Nyro]

As a Samus main, I find it very hard to play against a top tier Diddy. As if spacing was hard enough as it is, I feel stiff and feel like there's no way to get out of Diddys areal combos. I usually try to put up a missile game but it's very hard to catch up. Any suggestions? I wish I could capture my Samus, but unfortunately I can't.

 

[Inger]

I have very much the same problem. Only thing I have ever been able to do is anticipate his grab attempts with a dodge, then reverse grab or upB.Another thing I have found useful is laying a bomb at mu feet before trying any zoning, so if he grabs it cancels it. Its still a very hard matchup, always better to choose a secondary against a diddy.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Missiles cover his side B. LikeInger said, bombs can help you out with a graby Diddy.

I haven't played any really hard Diddys yet but seeing more and more of then on for glory mode.

 

[BlackCephie]

I actually have some videos playing against Diddy, but Im having a hard time posting them for some reason. I found bombs to be my best friend in that match-up. If you bomb correctly, its extremely hard for Diddy to get in on you at all without being punished or interrupted. Also, Diddy's upb can be gimped hard by Samus. Mixing up bombs with uncharged neutral shots are great and quick ways to disrupt his movement and approach options. As good as Diddy is, I don't think hes that bad of a matchup for Samus.

 

[Los4Muros]

Wow, finally we get to see a bit of bomb uses for a change. Well I usually try to keep some space with the classic Zair. This combined with Bombs work great against a Diddy Kong. Missiles can help out too. Anybody would say I'm spamming against that Diddy Kong, but a good player would noticed we really don't have many options against Diddy since he's Top Tier (literally) while Samus has still a lot to be discovered. Bombs are good to interrupt grabs and ledge play is your best option I'm guessing. But for direct combat, Samus is in complete disadvantage. Same goes for aerials. Also Up B can help a lot if you predict an air dodge.

 

[BlackCephie]

Wow, finally we get to see a bit of bomb uses for a change. Well I usually try to keep some space with the classic Zair. This combined with Bombs work great against a Diddy Kong. Missiles can help out too. Anybody would say I'm spamming against that Diddy Kong, but a good player would noticed we really don't have many options against Diddy since he's Top Tier (literally) while Samus has still a lot to be discovered. Bombs are good to interrupt grabs and ledge play is your best option I'm guessing. But for direct combat, Samus is in complete disadvantage. Same goes for aerials. Also Up B can help a lot if you predict an air dodge.

Bombs are highly underestimated in this game, even by samus players. Personally i believe that a lot of her hidden potential lies within smart bomb usage. This version of smash is incredibly focused on close range combat. We need to start thinking about bombs AS a direct combat option. Bombs are essentially a lasting hit box that cover you at that range. Its worth dropping a bomb first ive found, especially at mid range, mainly because it deters the approach before it even starts. As measly as they seem, the opponent has to respond to them. Whatever response they have, the ball is still in your court at that point, no pun intended. Its basically pessuring your enemy before they even know it yet. Capitalize on this, especially against top tiers who are overconfident in their abilities.

Also, zair is always a great tool, but for short characters like diddy it can be problematic unless they are airborne. The bomb is better because they cant run under you or get in grab range. If they jump, then you punish. Also utilt is awesome when used in conjunction with bombs. Try it out.

 

[Los4Muros]

I've been using the bombs a lot lately. I've noticed that if space is enough or need to make some space, I set a bomb before going in for some hits. If I'm being juggled, bombs are the best option to get out of there. Then bombs before a grab or a pivot grab also keeps yourself safe from a punish (at least decreases the risk). I've been using them more lately trying to find the best way for them. But like you said, Mid-range is the best option for their use.

 

[Afro Smash]

I feel like a good diddy would be able to punish the lag of setting bombs from the ground with side b quite easily. Is this not the case?

Also do bombs interrupt side b if hes already latched on to you?

As for some of my tips, I'd say

-missile pressure and jump charge shots whilst they are getting theyre banana out (most will jump to catch it)
--after they throw the banana, immediately grab as they will be running in for a grab themselves and can be caught off guard, obviously mix this up as the game goes on and predict rolls etc. but swapping his down throw combos for yours can be around a 40% damage swing
-Never challenge in the air when you're above him, best option id say is air dodge to up b if you fall past him, but whiffing this can just lead to more down throw combos

Aside from Samus' floatiness making her fairly easy to juggle, I wouldnt say this is a particularly bad match up, diddy's just really good

 

[BlackCephie]

I feel like a good diddy would be able to punish the lag of setting bombs from the ground with side b quite easily. Is this not the case?

Also do bombs interrupt side b if hes already latched on to you?

As for some of my tips, I'd say

-missile pressure and jump charge shots whilst they are getting theyre banana out (most will jump to catch it)
--after they throw the banana, immediately grab as they will be running in for a grab themselves and can be caught off guard, obviously mix this up as the game goes on and predict rolls etc. but swapping his down throw combos for yours can be around a 40% damage swing
-Never challenge in the air when you're above him, best option id say is air dodge to up b if you fall past him, but whiffing this can just lead to more down throw combos

Aside from Samus' floatiness making her fairly easy to juggle, I wouldnt say this is a particularly bad match up, diddy's just really good

Firstly, you dont downb from the ground, you do it from a short hop. By short hopping first, you leave yourself with more options since you are downb'ing with defensive intent. I dont know about the sideb, but anything short of that is punishable via downb, or at worst avoidable. Peanut and nanerz shouldnt be an issue. Basically diddy needs to go for the grab, or aerials. Yould be able to read it considering your bomb is out to cover you ahead of time.

 

[Xyro77]

I can get some videos of a phenomenal diddy player called FlipHop. What you all think about diddy vs Samus isn't all rainbows and butterflies. It's incredible hard.

 

[BlackCephie]

oh Its definitely not rainbows and butterflies. Diddy is super annoying and I honestly don't know how all of his pros vs. his few cons slipped by the devs, or maybe they are just trolling everyone, but its not an impossible match for Samus.

 

[Nyro]

I appreciate the downB comments guys, I wish I could upload videos of myself playing Smash 4 but I only have PM videos. Thanks everyone! I'll try out these moves on Diddy lol

 

[Xyro77]

Remember, the devs do not see this game in a competitive way because it is not a competitive minded game. It is a party game we made a competitive game. They have no way of knowing what we will or won't abuse.

I don't wanna jump the gun but I do feel at the highest of level, this MU is a severe disadvantage for Samus. 70:30.

 

[leiraD]

I can get some videos of a phenomenal diddy player called FlipHop. What you all think about diddy vs Samus isn't all rainbows and butterflies. It's incredible hard.

Please please please do. I've watched a lot of fliphop lately and have wondered how a high leveled samus would play that matchup. Even if you're losing the games, please post some.

 

[Los4Muros]

Remember, the devs do not see this game in a competitive way because it is not a competitive minded game. It is a party game we made a competitive game. They have no way of knowing what we will or won't abuse.

I don't wanna jump the gun but I do feel at the highest of level, this MU is a severe disadvantage for Samus. 70:30.

I agree. Even if Samus has some tricks, the total advantage goes to Diddy Kong. I personally think this is because Diddy Kong is found to be Top Tier, while Samus a Low Tier. A matchup against Diddy Kong is hard enough to keep up even with my other mains like Zero Suit Samus or Marth. But when trying to go up against one with Samus, it's extremely hard since we have to keep up and counter the great qualities a Top Tier has, avoiding every defect that makes Samus a Low Tier. Although I have been proven wrong in multiple matches,yet I think a character can only compete against a rival three ranks higher at the most. If Samus is a D, I think she has a change against C, B and A ranks if mastered. Diddy Kong is an S. From there, I think it depends on the gaming level between the two players to overcome such difference between D and S. If the player is just as good as you or almost as good, it won't matter, since Diddy Kong holds the advantage to keep up with his/her mistakes. Ps. I know there's no Tier List yet, this is just an example.

The tips I gave are things that might help out, but I doubt they'll give anybody a victory against Diddy Kong. Truth be told, to defeat one, you'll need to play with all you got. Playing without compromising moves. Avoiding the use of moves with lag, great spacing, spamming if possible and only using grabs, Utilt, UpB, Fsmash if you're about a 75% sure it'll land the hit. This is definitely one of Samus' hardest matchups in the game.

 

[Nyro]

I agree. Even if Samus has some tricks, the total advantage goes to Diddy Kong. I personally think this is because Diddy Kong is found to be Top Tier, while Samus a Low Tier. A matchup against Diddy Kong is hard enough to keep up even with my other mains like Zero Suit Samus or Marth. But when trying to go up against one with Samus, it's extremely hard since we have to keep up and counter the great qualities a Top Tier has, avoiding every defect that makes Samus a Low Tier. Although I have been proven wrong in multiple matches,yet I think a character can only compete against a rival three ranks higher at the most. If Samus is a D, I think she has a change against C, B and A ranks if mastered. Diddy Kong is an S. From there, I think it depends on the gaming level between the two players to overcome such difference between D and S. If the player is just as good as you or almost as good, it won't matter, since Diddy Kong holds the advantage to keep up with his/her mistakes. Ps. I know there's no Tier List yet, this is just an example.

The tips I gave are things that might help out, but I doubt they'll give anybody a victory against Diddy Kong. Truth be told, to defeat one, you'll need to play with all you got. Playing without compromising moves. Avoiding the use of moves with lag, great spacing, spamming if possible and only using grabs, Utilt, UpB, Fsmash if you're about a 75% sure it'll land the hit. This is definitely one of Samus' hardest matchups in the game.

I can agree on what you're saying, and I try to preach this point that Diddy Kong is TOP tier. Samus is considered mid tier in this game, but I just don't see it. She was mid in Brawl because of her missile cancelling, but now she has lag between all her missiles and her physical game is up. Just because she has good tilts and airs, doesn't make Samus Mid-Tier; remember, there's a reason Samus was mid tier in Melee and Brawl. Her missiles MADE Samus the beast she is. Now, going against a no-lag machine Diddy Kong, you're right, it doesn't matter if you're as good as the opponent the Diddy will always have the advantage.

My friend R00kie plays as Diddy as a his main and kicks my ass from a two stock high damage or 1 stock mid damage. I rarely get to kill his Diddy with Samus, and when I do kill his Diddy, it's with Robin. When he chooses someone like Ganondorf, he's no problem! So yes, this is one of the many points that I strongly agree on: Tiers do matter.

 

[BlackCephie]

Hopefully we will learn more about the matchup as the game progresses and find more ways to deal with Diddy. As of now im finding downb to be a pretty integral part of fighting diddy kong.

 

[Xyro77]

Nyro, Samus was low tier in brawl.

I feel that AT BEST she will be mid tier in smash 4.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I'll forward by saying Xyro's definitely the expert with the pro-player experience and I am a knowledgeable scrub.

I'm personally not sure though, I feel it's too early to say mid to low tier for smash 4 Samus. People are still figuring things out, diddy's grab -> up-air combo which has been raining death is the internet has now been found to be neutralized by simple jump, don't air-dodge, jump.
Likewise the murderous Zamus grab-> up-B "confirmed kill" actually has final frames at high percents that you can DI -> air-dodge out of.
I also watch some very skilled players in meetings like "#THE invitational" simply not abusing landing and dodge lag, and frankly very few posts dealing with it. The charge shot is the single best move in game for this, you can't miss! I might make a compilation, to show what I mean (I'm a busy guy IRL).

 

[BlackCephie]

I don't think that Samus is for sure mid or low tier in this smash. For one thing, I think that the general notion that Samus is at a disadvantage because she is floaty is a misconception. I think her zero-gravityness gives her even more of an advantage in this particualr version of smash. The fact that she can gimp or kill most of the cast at around 60% over the drop zone is a huge advantage. She is so safe over the edge that its scary. On top of that, I really do feel as though her bombs hold the key to her success at higher level play. Anyone who can use downb right knows that it, in conjunction with other moves, can create a very formidable wall. It doesn't even matter that her projectiles have recovery on them. The fact that upb OoS is so good means that every PERFECT shield you get is bad news for your opponent. This may be where the meta game truly lies. How many times have you thought "Oh ****, Im about to get punished" only to get a perfect shield just from TRYING to not get hit? Its freakish how often it occurs. I've had people try to punish a laggy ass power missile, only to get perfect shield and fsmash or upb for the death. downb creates frametraps. That plus good spacing, coupled with how hard Samus can vector, means that she is tricky is and dangerously lethal in the right hands.

 

[Crystanium]

I'm not going to let a match-up mess with my mind. I had fun fighting Diddy Kong in SSBB. I'm ready for Diddy Kong and if I must, I'll fight any Diddy Kong to increase my experience.

 

[Nyro]

I'm not going to let a match-up mess with my mind. I had fun fighting Diddy Kong in SSBB. I'm ready for Diddy Kong and if I must, I'll fight any Diddy Kong to increase my experience.

That's very good, that's how I should approach Diddy's. I mean, he's practically number one as of now, but still, anyone mid/low tier need to be careful.

 

[Nyro]

Nyro, Samus was low tier in brawl.

I feel that AT BEST she will be mid tier in smash 4.

Only when I play Samus, people give props for how good it looks; but for now, she's low for the simple fact that she's played by a very few. Let's keep our fingers crossed.