How bad can online make Ike?

[Rango the Mercenary]

Since I don't live in a center which is yet very big for tournaments and competition, the last time I had a competition of that nature was CEO, and before that, MomoCon. Besides those, we host bi-weekly tournaments at our local venue. Otherwise, I practice the way I've been practicing since Brawl - online.

Between the advice I get on the matchup threads and how well I do my best to space attacks properly and still get punished for even the simplest of jabs, I'm starting to believe online screws Ike over more than I've been giving it credit for. I've been told Wi-Fi Sonic players can abuse it incredibly well, and I've had problems spacing out characters like King Dedede and Lucario, the latter of which can abuse UTilts with huge range and juggle potential.

Since I don't want to go dull, I practice online and deal with it on Smashladder. But honestly, I'm wondering just how detrimental online play is to the Ike user who dares to bring him online. Do you feel a complete and utter difference, knowing deep down you could 2-stock the player who is giving you trouble just because of the latency?

 

[Routa]

Well it depends. As for Ike player who has mostly been in online tournaments I have to say online isn't as bad as people think (well FG is bad due to cancer named Sanic). Ike still does well even when connection is badish due to Fair and Nair. So I would not say that the online environment disables Ike.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Certain characters are more difficult(perfect shielding and teching are more difficult to pull off) and timing eruption offers a challenge. spacing can be more tedious but it is doable. Honestly, the quick paced movements i can do offline are just not possible for me online; but its not too bad. I've done about 900 online matches and lag has not made one match un-winnable.

 

[Arrei]

It can be harder for Ike to approach on account of his reliance on defensive moves and timing to get in, which makes facing characters with chargeable projectiles a real hassle to deal with online. But mostly the main difference I find that noticeably bad lag makes is throwing off your combo ability and shielding because of muscle memory telling you to input commands or release shields before you're supposed to. Of these two, Ike is affected less by the former for his bread and butter since he gets so much off of a throw/Dtilt -> second attack, but following up after that, or securing the kill, can be much more annoying with lag throwing off your timing for punishes and reads. I flub a lot more FF Bairs when I'm lagging.

 

[Mario766]

Ike needs his movement options to be on point. Lag forces you to compensate for the frame delay and switching from online to offline is tough at tiimes.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

That makes a lot of sense. Dedede is a lot more punishable offline because the lag is just too much of a compromise for proper movement. I've dealt with many things from Mario and Charizard players online that they can't do when I battle the characters offline.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Wifi basically kills Ike's throw combos at kill percents, kills Eruption edgeguarding, kills a large portion of his spacing game, kills his ability to try to PS projectiles, makes him even more juggle bait, makes his Counter even less likely to activate in time....

Its not good.

 

[Hanku Hirru]

Wifi is the bane of Ike's existence. I've lost a handful of matches due to lag absolutely taking a dump on registering my button input.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Wifi basically kills Ike's throw combos at kill percents, kills Eruption edgeguarding, kills a large portion of his spacing game, kills his ability to try to PS projectiles, makes him even more juggle bait, makes his Counter even less likely to activate in time....

Its not good.

I almost never even use Counter. What's PS?

 

[Routa]

I almost never even use Counter. What's PS?

Perfect Shield if I'm correct.

 

[Banjobeast158]

It can be harder for Ike to approach on account of his reliance on defensive moves and timing to get in, which makes facing characters with chargeable projectiles a real hassle to deal with online. But mostly the main difference I find that noticeably bad lag makes is throwing off your combo ability and shielding because of muscle memory telling you to input commands or release shields before you're supposed to. Of these two, Ike is affected less by the former for his bread and butter since he gets so much off of a throw/Dtilt -> second attack, but following up after that, or securing the kill, can be much more annoying with lag throwing off your timing for punishes and reads. I flub a lot more FF Bairs when I'm lagging.

I thought I was the only one screwing up combos lol

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I didn't even know Ike had kill percent combos. I thought it was up to a certain point that you could read an airdodge and throw out a Uair. I think only a few times have I ever hit UThrow to Fair and managed the surefire kill.

 

[Routa]

Anyways when playing Ike online you kinda have to throw everything you know about combos and edgeguarding out from the window. In online Fair and Nair become your main moves. Why? Big hitboxes that deal good damage. Ike's game plan changes from trading attacks into aggressive hit and run. What you want to do is be in air and create a wall with you Fairs and Nairs. Also FR Fair and QD are far more useful in online environment than in offline. Oh about the Eruption... Just don't. Going off-stage in online environment is very risky (I used to go off-stage Fair foes) due to lag can **** your recovery.

Shortly said Ike's game plan change into more aerial based when online.

 

[san.]

Since you play in offline tournaments..

Don't let online detrimentally influence your playstyle too much and you should be fine and improve. Try to play like you would offline to the best of your abilities. If you can't play the way you want, it's still worth the effort to try.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

It's better than going rusty and not playing, I suppose.

 

[Mario766]

That's what the lab is for.

 

[san.]

Yeah, a lot of good posts in this thread. Pretty much know what you can and can't do on each. You can definitely play online, but be sure not to neglect some easy things you can do offline like high % throw combos and reactive edgeguards/eruption and practice them occasionally.

I used to practice ~10-20 minutes offline before I played online when I was a lot more competitive.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

That's what the lab is for.

How does the lab work exactly and what do you do? I use training mode extensively for games like Mortal Kombat X, but almost never for Smash.

 

[Mario766]

How does the lab work exactly and what do you do? I use training mode extensively for games like Mortal Kombat X, but almost never for Smash.

It gives you any percent you want with no rage, so you can practice damage specific combos and you can practice movement options and other tricks.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

It gives you any percent you want with no rage, so you can practice damage specific combos and you can practice movement options and other tricks.

How do you do this? Is this Training mode or Smash singles mode 1v1 against a dummy AI at Level 1 or a controller?

 

[Mario766]

How do you do this? Is this Training mode or Smash singles mode 1v1 against a dummy AI at Level 1 or a controller?

Training mode. Set percent to whatever and either set the CPU to stay still *basic setting* which has them DI, or put them into control so they don't DI.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

if you're on 1v1 FG, it is pretty important to know that omega/FD isn't a good stage for Ike. He really benefits from the platforms of Battlefield (however dreamland 64 can also cause you to SD) so online can be a pretty bad problem for him. As long as you aren't against

:gimps with radish
:learn how to make smores with your fun camping trip
:mistaken smash for wii bowling
:b button is true combo
:way too fast and way to heavy to launch easily

otherwise you should be fine, I'd favor Ike in matches against most heavyweights, and a lot of agile characters like Sheik and ZSS due to their light weight and Ike's amazing launching power

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So I tested something. I played loads of online the other day, and went to a large local tournament in Macon yesterday. The difference is stark between Wi-Fi Ike and offline Ike. @ Routa is completely right that Ike's game becomes more aerial focused when you're online. That's to compensate for the stifled movements and the need to avoid punishments, especially when reacting to an opponent's move and trying to punish them.

I think I'm going to take a break online for a little while because I don't feel playing online continuously is doing me any favors at this point. I'll be going to TFC in a couple of weeks, so besides one of our weekly tournaments, I'll see if I can hold out on trying to develop bad habits from playing online again.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Online is so bad that the game sometimes forgets you should have a 2nd jump.

 

[Trueblade]

A wise player once told me to use WiFi mostly to practice matchups and practice offline for the rest. Seems like sound advice to me. You can still figure out what does well and what doesn't in a matchup for the most part in a bit of lag.

Also lag bodies tilt stick. Smash stick has the problem of lag turning other aerials into nairs, tilt stick just eats inputs instead.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I'm actually afraid to play online now because I don't want to get into the habit of just approaching and going ham on bad players. I don't even want to take challenges on Smashladder because I know it's not representative of true skill level when you consider how hard it is for Ike to punish.

I'm even hesitant of using secondaries.

 

[Trueblade]

It's still plenty worth to use Ike on Anthers in order to study matchups, just don't take it too seriously. It's ranked, sure, but it's still wifi.

 

[Tino]

It could go either way for me. I mean I have made some progress playing with Ike a couple of times before yet at the same time, I have met with some disastrous results like using his Quick Draw below the stage to my death. The experience was far worse with online lag in the way ****ing up my gameplay.

 

[Arrei]

I'm actually afraid to play online now because I don't want to get into the habit of just approaching and going ham on bad players. I don't even want to take challenges on Smashladder because I know it's not representative of true skill level when you consider how hard it is for Ike to punish.

I just see those as combo and movement practice, like labbing against a (slightly) more responsive opponent.