hiro plays pika?

[h1roshi]

hiro(pika) vs capn crunch(MK)
r1: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FC42FnJH2r4
r2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7YY52rVXfD8
r3: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S1o_uHss9Ko
r4: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OfK3B9IG0MA

-hiro

 

[Sudai]

Needs moar QAC. Real criticism tomorrow. I'm tired to the point of delirium, but the fights were fun to watch none the less...but yeah. Needs moar QAC.

 

[Spyckie]

full hop > short hop with pikachu. Especially with bair and neutral b.

Don't use attack mode on metaknight. MK definitely holds the cards against Pikachu (and almost every other character) when it comes to close combat. My goal when playing MK is to avoid him like he has aids, and hit him with full hopped neutral b spam to follow up with (dsmash, running up smash, grab) if possible.

Wait for him to sh fair you and dsmash punish that approach, or QAC away to full hop + neutral b spam. Never run towards him, as you lose precious opportunity to spam him with your projectile and a chance for him to screw up and allow for you to sneak in a quick upsmash or something. Attack him if he's careless or unawares, but usually he wins in those scuffles.

If he's coming from above, I would say full hop bair - has worked for me a couple of times.

 

[Anther]

First vid. I felt like the distance you chose to keep to meta was too close... Like you kinda did attacks and floated around in his danger zone too much. And Quick attack into the stage so you can jump out of it. Landing lag from having to recover onto the stage with quick attack is a thing from the past, don't let it happen >=o! What the heck! lol <3.

Actually, you didn't QAC into the stage at all when recovering. You're giving him a free hit for no reason >=[.

Also the way you play looks seems like you kinda just going through the motions against his metaknight... I think you should be more observant about what he wants to do... cause he kinda projects what he wants to do next against you a lot. Also.. when he starts poking with dtilts, jump out of there asap, even if it means taking a hit, cause all you can gain out of that is getting dsmashed if you wait. And no rolling towards him ever. Just sets you up for an awkwardly DI'd dsmash.

Spyckie is a genius btw. The more spam you can do the better. You played falco in melee, it's a lot like that... except it was how you wanted to play pika vs jiggly... with a sword...

Also, the counter to the tornado, hold your shield, and when the attacks over, immediately release it and downsmash. Otherwise, if he pokes at your shield a bit and escapes, run away and jolt spam so you don't get shield poked by the next one.

 

[ynomrahnsguht]

^^^^^^^^ pretty much.

moar edgeguard thunders too.

 

[Spyckie]

haha, thanks Anther - I agree; not spamming with pikachu is like not using falco's lasers in melee...

sadly, part of the reason why I'm not a pikachu main anymore (he still is my best character though) is that he is so... not aggressive (not that he camps, but you have to be really patient to play pikachu well...) Smash should be my entertainment, and pikachu's patient, wait for the opponent to mess up style really is quite tiring... I'd much rather charge in spamming G&W's bair or MK's fair... less thought required.

BTW, something useful - I've been looking at full hopped bair with Pikachu, and it's actually very, very good. Super high priority and great against people coming down on you from above. I'm not sure if it out-prioritizes G&W's key, but it catches people in the air very, very well and has no landing lag, so its hard to punish. The only thing bad about it is that you lag if you try to do it after a QAC...

Also, people just want to see QAC because its flashy. You only really need it to run away from people pressuring you, and maybe throw in a QAC -> thunder after a dsmash. That's the most success I have with it. Sometimes, I'll QAC under them if they full hop too much (which, because I spam so much, they do), but usually, its not really that successful.

 

[Sudai]

Spyckie, QAC is great to follow any attack, not just DSmash. After the hard hit on a FAir, a NAir, even a BAir. Not only that, it's a great approach when you want to mix things up. QAC > NAir. QAC through them with both parts hitting them > DSmash. It's freaking great to make them not know what you're gonna do. QAC around the stage a bunch then QAC at them and see if you don't catch them off guard. QAC right out of their range and just wait. A lot of people get surprised and just try to get an attack out. when something fast moves at them.

There's just so much versatility in QAC.

 

[Anther]

It's very true. Pika's not really as projectile dependent as you're making him out to be Spyckie. He still has incredibly fast follow-ups after landing aerials and lots of priority over most attacks.

 

[Spyckie]

haha, alright - I only play a MK, so my Pika's style is what is it.

After playing a lot of the characters, I would put Pikachu's close combat ability at mid-high tier. He can hold his own against many characters with just combat alone. I dunno who he's equal with, but he's definitely slightly below marth, G&W, and MK, (maybe jiggly and luigi too) preventing him from being in high tier. The spam just helps him with those fights.

QAC hasn't helped me much in terms of attacking. I can't really see the versatility of it to attack, and I use it extensively. The big problem with it is that while it is a sneaky attack, my friend keeps nairing me out of it, which sucks because MK's nair hurts and takes priority over all of Pikachu's attacks.

Maybe if you could say who it works well against, I would agree with you. This is however a Pika vs MK thread...

BTW, I have not yet seen any videos of a spammy Pikachu. lol where my homies at???

 

[Tagxy]

QAC hasn't helped me much in terms of attacking. I can't really see the versatility of it to attack, and I use it extensively. The big problem with it is that while it is a sneaky attack, my friend keeps nairing me out of it, which sucks because MK's nair hurts and takes priority over all of Pikachu's attacks.

The versatility is using it as a mind game. Try this, instead of QAC into them QAC in front of them and wait for them to attack. Then when they do punish them. That's what I do for zelda's. They have no clue whether your going in to attack them or QAC in place so they have no choice but to try and counter you and if they dont then you can go into them.


Also, since we're on the subject of thundshocks, I have some smexy moves I've been using recently I thought I'd share. The first is double jump thundershock -> QAC. Basically, double jump a thundershock and follow it, and when the lag wears out QAC to where the thundershock is going. Depending on how you time it you can get there before, after, or at the same time the thundershock arrives. It's amazing against characters that have some range like marth.

The second is the short hop thundershock approach. I know generally short hop and thundershock arent meant to be used in the same moveset, but this works really well. Simply, sh, ts, di forward, sh, ts, di forward, sh, ts, di forward. If you time it right they should have three thundershocks heading after them fairly quickly. And yes, short hops are best for this, the reason being that they allow you to do the maximum amount of DI movement per thundershockk. Once you get close to your opponent, walk forward and use a tilt or if your feeling adventurous a smash. This also works as the best type of ts retreat imo.

 

[Spyckie]

hey tagxy -

Thanks for the input. I've thought about double jumped thundershocks, but I've never ended up using them. They mess up my rhythm . They are good against pit and rob, 2 spammers than can mess your spamming up.

haha, and the best type of retreat is actually the QAC to full hopped thundershock imo. The sh ts is great cover, but it doesn't beat out QACing across the stage . Or rather, they're both pretty sick ;P.

What about the lag at the end of a QAC? do you just jump and hover over them while they're like WTH? I'm sorta confused if you're not attacking at the end... how far in front do you mean? like, fsmash range?

 

[Tagxy]

You're right, QAC is a better retreat. I guess sh thundershock is more of a good mini-retreat, in case you want to keep extra pressure on them and get back into the fray without going to far away. I'd think most people might do it intuitively, but the approaching 2-3 sh ts di is something im a bit fond of now when I want to get some tilts in. Its slightly more affective then full hop ts di though its also not as easy, but in general I switch between the two once an opponent starts predicting one way. Its also a little easier to get around reflectors

The reason I did the double jump was cause I wanted to find a way to be able to QAC after a thundershock in the air. While you can technically QAC after a full hop, the distance is so short its not helpful. But seriously, double jump -> ts -> QAC is incredibly sexy, its one of those things you want to do if you're having trouble finding a way to approach (or just to show off), but otherwise you're right its a rhythm killer its not something thats good to just randomly use in the heat of battle. It might be the best approach I know of so far (though certainly not fool proof especially if it gets predictable) but I won't say it is because theres probably something Im forgetting about like last time .

As for the QAC, my method was mainly in refrence to zelda's. They like to use usmash to outprioritize your QA and cover the area you'd go through to get to them. If you QAC outside their range though, their lag is longer then your lag and you can follow up with a tilt or smash. But that's because zelda's usmash lasts a long time. For characters with quicker attacks, you can QAC jump outside their range and wait for them to attack. And yeah, basically you hover over on your upward trajectory while they attack, and then come down on them with an attack of your own after their whiffed attack such as an fair - dsmash combo. Or if you want to keep distance still, a thundershock then head in after them. The nice thing about this is your in control, you dont have to go in right away. You can QAC just outside their range several times until you see an opportunity to either go in directly, or attack with the downward trajectory of your jump as mentioned earlier. They dont know when you're going to pull out of your QAC. And maybe instead you do something completely different like a skull bash. But as long as your QAC isnt predictable, you have an edge over them while you're doing it...except freaking olimar.

 

[Roller]

First vid. I felt like the distance you chose to keep to meta was too close... Like you kinda did attacks and floated around in his danger zone too much. And Quick attack into the stage so you can jump out of it. Landing lag from having to recover onto the stage with quick attack is a thing from the past, don't let it happen >=o! What the heck! lol <3.

Actually, you didn't QAC into the stage at all when recovering. You're giving him a free hit for no reason >=[.

Also the way you play looks seems like you kinda just going through the motions against his metaknight... I think you should be more observant about what he wants to do... cause he kinda projects what he wants to do next against you a lot. Also.. when he starts poking with dtilts, jump out of there asap, even if it means taking a hit, cause all you can gain out of that is getting dsmashed if you wait. And no rolling towards him ever. Just sets you up for an awkwardly DI'd dsmash.

Spyckie is a genius btw. The more spam you can do the better. You played falco in melee, it's a lot like that... except it was how you wanted to play pika vs jiggly... with a sword...

Also, the counter to the tornado, hold your shield, and when the attacks over, immediately release it and downsmash. Otherwise, if he pokes at your shield a bit and escapes, run away and jolt spam so you don't get shield poked by the next one.

Listen to this man. He knows what he's talkin about. =)

 

[Anther]

Pika pwnz olimar. no johns.

 

[Tagxy]

Olimar has one of his pikmin wear a pika fur coat just to taunt us.

 

[Spyckie]

anther tell us your olimar secrets

 

[Anther]

Heh heh heh.... no secrets no secrets ^^.
I posted a semi-tipful thing in the Pikachu vs Olimar Matchup thread. I'm not entirely sure if what I posted is concrete enough but it gives you some things to think about in regards of how I think the lil guy should be tackled.

 

[Tagxy]

Anther I noticed you have pika as your main again , we should ditto sometime.