Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[Single_Mom]

So how about songs, the Persona series is well-known for it’s catchy and upbeat soundtracks, which I think would fit perfectly into Smash.

Here are some songs I think could be in:

Poem for Everyone’s Souls (Velvet Room Theme)
Snow Queen (Persona 1)
Maya’s Theme (Persona 2: Innocent Sin)
Mass Destruction/Burn My Dread (Atlus Kitajoh remix) (Persona 3)
When the Moon’s Reaching Out Stars (Persona 3)
A Way if Life (Persona 3)
Pursuing My True Self (Persona 4)
Reach Out To The Truth (Persona 4)
I’ll Face Myself (Persona 4)
Shadow World (Persona 4 Golden)
Time To Make History (Persona 4 Golden)
Break Out Of... (Persona 4 Arena Ultimax)
Maze of Life (Persona Q)
Light the Fire Up in the Night (Persona Q)
Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There (Persona 5)
Life Will Change (Persona 5)
Beneath the Mask (Persona 5)
Last Surprise (Persona 5)
The Whims of Fate (Persona 5)
Rivers in the Desert (Persona 5)
Our Moment (Persona 3 Dancing in Moonlight)
Groovy (Persona 5 Dancing in Starlight)
Road Less Taken (Persona Q2)

When the Moon’s Reaching Out Stars and The Whims of Fate are the ones I'd like the most. Game (P4) or Price (P5) would be cool for a joke though.

 

[Black Link521]

I agree with the Butterfly or Jack Frost but I might as well add my own ideas. Could the logo be of Shin Megami Tensei since Persona 5 is still SMT I think? Or could it be The Fool Arcana? I'm not sure since the first protagonist was The Emperor and I don't know if the SMT logo would be considered controversial, but then again we have Simon Belmont. Maybe SEGA/Atlus or Sakurai would make one up for Smash.

 

[NintenZ]

Oh yeah, also Will Power from Persona 5 would be REALLY fitting for a game like Smash, it has that rock and roll vibe that’s the perfect energy for a game like Smash.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Hi everyone! I spend a decent amount of time making signature icons for people over in the sig icon thread. Figured this thread would appreciate not only Joker, but all of the Phantom Thieves. So here's these:

And a little bonus:

 

[NintenZ]

Hi everyone! I spend a decent amount of time making signature icons for people over in the sig icon thread. Figured this thread would appreciate not only Joker, but all of the Phantom Thieves. So here's these:

And a little bonus:

These are great as always Bradli! Love the little details you added on all of them.

And Jack is a lovely touch as well (If any Persona were to be playable on their own it would be him)

 

[Black Link521]

Akechi isn't there, actually, he doesn't have a render in his Prince Outfit unfortunately so it makes sense.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Akechi isn't there, actually, he doesn't have a render in his Prince Outfit unfortunately so it makes sense.

I tend to avoid adding Akechi to things bc he's kinda spoilery. Just my opinion on that though.

These are great as always Bradli! Love the little details you added on all of them.

And Jack is a lovely touch as well (If any Persona were to be playable on their own it would be him)

I absolutely love Jack Frost. I've jacked one up (pun intended) on my recent playthourgh of NG+. He's currently my highest level Persona in this playthrough at 42

 

[NintenZ]

I absolutely love Jack Frost. I've jacked one up (pun intended) on my recent playthourgh of NG+. He's currently my highest level Persona in this playthrough at 42

Omg same here, he’s currently my highest-level and longest kept Persona in my playthrough, I’ve also sacrificed a Persona for him in the Velvet Room as well as kept hin for training in the Velvet Room to make him stronger.

All-in-all I just love to use him, he’s overall just great!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Omg same here, he’s currently my highest-level and longest kept Persona in my playthrough, I’ve also sacrificed a Persona for him in the Velvet Room as well as kept hin for training in the Velvet Room to make him stronger.

All-in-all I just love to use him, he’s overall just great!
View attachment 159661

Yeah I keep mine caught up in levels by sacrificing high level personas from my first playthrough to him ^^' I could probably level him up a ton more, but I'm trying to keep him on-curve with the areas I'm in so the game isn't too easy.

 

[RandomAce]

Why am I still not on the support list?

 

[NintenZ]

I made a trailer for Joker:

Trailer starts with the Smash logo opening: Cut to an animated cutscene with Wario who we see in a large city, walking through minding his own business, when suddenly something is off, the city around him starts to change to a murky atmosphere, and Wario is horrified to find out that there are these creatures that are surrounding him, he pleads for help and all of a sudden out of nowhere a figure jumps in and shouts, “Show me your true form!”, taking off the mask, however it is weak and is instantly defeated on contact, the figure is revealed and exclaims “Power courses through me!”, cut to the tag line: “Joker Steals the Show!!”, after this Last Surprise starts playing, then we cut to gameplay with Futaba conversating with Joker simultaneously, giving him tips while also talking about how unfamiliar the territory is, we’re shown his moveset, which relies heavily on different Personas like Arsene, the Assist Trophy, Aigis, and the stage, the Velvet Room Arena, and finally it’s capped with Joker’s Final Smash, All-Out Attack with Morgana, Ann, and Ryuji. Cut to the Smash Ultimate logo and after this we see Joker confused saying, “Hm, Caroline and Justine, what are you doing here?” To which they say, “We’re not letting you escape this time, inmate.” Cut to black.

Please tell me what you guys think, I’d love to hear feedback.

 

[xelasseh]

I made a trailer for Joker:

Trailer starts with the Smash logo opening: Cut to an animated cutscene with Wario who we see in a large city, walking through minding his own business, when suddenly something is off, the city around him starts to change to a murky atmosphere, and Wario is horrified to find out that there are these creatures that are surrounding him, he pleads for help and all of a sudden out of nowhere a figure jumps in and shouts, “Show me your true form!”, taking off the mask, however it is weak and is instantly defeated on contact, the figure is revealed and exclaims “Power courses through me!”, cut to the tag line: “Joker Steals the Show!!”, after this Last Surprise starts playing, then we cut to gameplay with Futaba conversating with Joker simultaneously, giving him tips while also talking about how unfamiliar the territory is, we’re shown his moveset, which relies heavily on different Personas like Arsene, the Assist Trophy, Aigis, and the stage, the Velvet Room Arena, and finally it’s capped with Joker’s Final Smash, All-Out Attack with Morgana, Ann, and Ryuji. Cut to the Smash Ultimate logo and after this we see Joker confused saying, “Hm, Caroline and Justine, what are you doing here?” To which they say, “We’re not letting you escape this time, inmate.” Cut to black.

Please tell me what you guys think, I’d love to hear feedback.

I like it! It's very fun in terms of pleasing fans of persona 5. In the scenario we get a cgi Joker trailer, we most likely won't get a lot of p5 content in game, so to showcase small but memorable things from the game in the trailer is a good, subtle way of representation without overkill. Wario being the ragdoll this time sounds like a good watch. Futaba conversations in the trailer is a cool nod to the game, as well as the ending with the twin wardens.

I was actually typing one up myself a while ago for fun, as well as a moveset, but after reading yours i'm gonna go finish it. Making up these potential scenarios is really fun, even if it is a long shot, realistically.

 

[Opossum]

I agree that it wouldn't be the Phantom Thieves logo. That seems too restricting, no series logo as far as I know seems to only represent one game in said series.

Fire Emblem has Marth's Falchion as a series symbol despite that version of the weapon only appearing in four of the fifteen main games (really only two, since Shadow Dragon and New Mystery used a different design), to be fair.

 

[NintenZ]

I like it! It's very fun in terms of pleasing fans of persona 5. In the scenario we get a cgi Joker trailer, we most likely won't get a lot of p5 content in game, so to showcase small but memorable things from the game in the trailer is a good, subtle way of representation without overkill. Wario being the ragdoll this time sounds like a good watch. Futaba conversations in the trailer is a cool nod to the game, as well as the ending with the twin wardens.

I was actually typing one up myself a while ago for fun, as well as a moveset, but after reading yours i'm gonna go finish it. Making up these potential scenarios is really fun, even if it is a long shot, realistically.

I don’t think Joker’s trailer would be CG, rather I think it would be in the style of the animated cutscenes and Persona 5 The Animation.

 

[xelasseh]

I don’t think Joker’s trailer would be CG, rather I think it would be in the style of the animated cutscenes and Persona 5 The Animation.

My bad, I worded that wrong. A trailer that isn't like the smash 4 dlc trailers. A potential trailer for Joker could be anything really, whether it's anime or cgi, any kind would be awesome!

 

[Jomosensual]

Count me in as a supporter for Joker. The music alone would be worth it, but I'd be super hyped to play as him in smash

 

[amageish]

I made a trailer for Joker:

Trailer starts with the Smash logo opening: Cut to an animated cutscene with Wario who we see in a large city, walking through minding his own business, when suddenly something is off, the city around him starts to change to a murky atmosphere, and Wario is horrified to find out that there are these creatures that are surrounding him, he pleads for help and all of a sudden out of nowhere a figure jumps in and shouts, “Show me your true form!”, taking off the mask, however it is weak and is instantly defeated on contact, the figure is revealed and exclaims “Power courses through me!”, cut to the tag line: “Joker Steals the Show!!”, after this Last Surprise starts playing, then we cut to gameplay with Futaba conversating with Joker simultaneously, giving him tips while also talking about how unfamiliar the territory is, we’re shown his moveset, which relies heavily on different Personas like Arsene, the Assist Trophy, Aigis, and the stage, the Velvet Room Arena, and finally it’s capped with Joker’s Final Smash, All-Out Attack with Morgana, Ann, and Ryuji. Cut to the Smash Ultimate logo and after this we see Joker confused saying, “Hm, Caroline and Justine, what are you doing here?” To which they say, “We’re not letting you escape this time, inmate.” Cut to black.

Please tell me what you guys think, I’d love to hear feedback.

Wario is a good choice as the victim of the trailer, given P5's theming! I'm guessing you're teasing Caroline and Justine as a boss with that ending? As that's also a very good idea - definitely in my top 10 options for non-playable ATLUS representation in Smash.

 

[CloudedSun]

Sakurai did talk about running out of third parties to be represented in Smash, I totally think Joker would sell like hotcakes as DLC. And though Atlus is a branch of SEGA, Atlus in and of itself deserves some representation even as ther Persona 5 hype train is by no means slowing down anytime soon.

 

[NintenZ]

Wario is a good choice as the victim of the trailer, given P5's theming! I'm guessing you're teasing Caroline and Justine as a boss with that ending? As that's also a very good idea - definitely in my top 10 options for non-playable ATLUS representation in Smash.

Ah I see you got my idea, yes, I’m thinking Caroline and Justine would be a boss in the Velvet Room stage, and would function I imagine similarly to how they were as a boss in the game.

Additionally Margaret and Elizabeth could also appear as bosses together under special conditions, and maybe even throw Lavanza in there too?

 

[xelasseh]

After Nintenzilla posted their trailer mock-up, I decided to go back to mine I had cooked up for a while bc trailer mock-ups are fun, as well as a moveset idea.

Spoiler: Trailer

*smash cut*

Scene fades into Squirtle getting pushed back from an attack, with pkmn trainer revealed behind him. Switches to a overhead shot of a dark and shady stadium covered in smoke, unable to see the challenger. Pkmn trainer commands squirtle to use water gun, water gun hits smoke to clear, but challenger is nowhere to be seen. Screen shows a shocked Squirtle, with the shady challenger above him and hits him with an electric attack (Zio). Squirtle is knocked out.

Pkmn trainer, disgruntled, switches Squirtle out. Takes out his next pokeball looking at it, conveying its his trump card. Out comes Charizard. Charizard stomps and roars to assert his presence.

A close of shot of the challenger’s muzzle going from an unimpressed frown to a chuckling grin.

Charizard takes off towards the challenger, once they get right in front of the challenger, they take a sharp turn up into the air, Charizard charges up and releases a Fire Spin, surrounding the challenger, lighting the stadium up, showing the challenger’s silhouette. Charizard charges in with a Flare Blitz. The shady challenger throws something on the ground, propelling him up (Vanish Ball).

Upon impact is a wide shot of the stadium. Charizard recovers from his recoil, and looks around for the challenger. Suddenly a red and black aura surrounds Charizard and takes him out (Eiha), Charizard being in the middle of the screen, collapses. As Charizard falls to the ground, the shady challenger walks towards the screen, revealing to be Joker.

Cue splash screen, along with Last Surprise playing. After splash screen, Joker grins, and a “1 more” transition occurs from CGI trailer to gameplay.

Gameplay footage plays and ends with showing his final smash starting out with a down shot, then leads into an all out attack feat. Ryuji, Ann and Morgana, ending on the Persona 5 AOA splash screen.

Seemlessly goes back to CGI trailer with Joker doing the same pose from his all out attack splash screen. Close up of the top half of his body, camera moves to reveal a mysterious figure, Joker turns around, already knowing someone is there.

(I thought of two different scenarios)

Safe Scenario: Camera zooms in on figure for it to be Mewtwo putting their hand, surrounded by shadow ball aura, up towards Joker, challenging him.

Fun, unlikely Scenario: Camera zooms in on figure for it to be Champion Blue, spinning a pokeball on finger like a basketball, props it up and catches it and shows it to Joker, in a manner to challenge him.

(Some context: This is based solely off of a prediction of mine. Since the theme of Rivals are prominent in Ultimate and the unconfirmed mode where it seems we’ll have “boss battles”, I can see Blue being a boss battle in something like a run-off version of Pokemon Stadium, or a new map of the Champion’s room in the Indigo Plateau. Whatever Pokemon he’ll have it can vary, but I can see his staple Pidgeot, Rhydon and Alakazam being his team you have to fight.)

I thought having Joker face off against another RPG franchise would be cool, especially since Persona is considered the "adult version of pokemon"

Spoiler: Moveset

Moveset, based on source material and attributes of a Trickster/Thief

Jab:
Standard Melee attack, critical shot finisher

Dash:
sneak animation while attacking w/ dagger

Tilts:
Dtilt - Slide

Utilt - dagger swipe

Ftilt - Lunge (non-ambush overworld enemy encounter) (i know it's not called that but i didn't know what to call it) (also i know there's a physical attack called lunge but whatever)

Smash Attacks: (All Physical Skills) (All w/ Arsene appearing)
Side Smash - Cleave

Up Smash - Brave Blade

Down Smash - Varja Blast

Specials:
Up Special - Vanish Ball (infiltration tool, makes huge smokescreen, doesn’t disappear, propels him upward

Side Special - Ambush (Either a general leap or Zero Suit like aerial jump that lands on enemies ripping off their “mask”)

Down Special - Third Eye, “Stealable items gain a yellow glow” (reflects any projectile upon contact, animation is an immediate catch and release)

Neutral Special - Bullet Hail (can fire in rapid succession, no knockback)

Aerials: (Magic Skills, Combination of other Personas)
Nair - Garu (Kelpie)

Dair - Zio (Pixie)

Fair - Agi (Jack O’ Lantern)

Bair - Bufu (Jack Frost)

Uair - Eiha (Incubus)

Throws:
DThrow - shove to ground, stand on opponent with one foot followed with gunshot, sending opponent in the air,

UThrow - throws opponent above and stabs them with dagger

BThrow - fox like back throw

FThrow - standard throw but with the steal animation

Intro Animation: holding mask, metaverse phasing fx

Taunts:
Spins dagger (like how he spins his phone during a team meeting if your proficiency is high enough)

“come here” hand gesture (an idle from game mid-battle)

holds face, removing mask with aura surrounding him

Final Smash:
Down Shot stuns enemies, only in front of Joker, somewhat wide range, follows up with p5 cut in and all out attack w/ ryuji, ann and morgana

Some moves do not originate from Joker but rather his teammates, but Smash has done this before w/ other characters. Same with other things like vanish ball, it doesn't propel him up in game, but it seemed like a fun idea. I had fun making this, I tried to be different from other movesets I've seen people craft for him.

I'm not super knowledgeable w/ the persona series, 5 is the only one i've played, so sorry in advance if something seems super off.

 

[amageish]

Ah I see you got my idea, yes, I’m thinking Caroline and Justine would be a boss in the Velvet Room stage, and would function I imagine similarly to how they were as a boss in the game.

Additionally Margaret and Elizabeth could also appear as bosses together under special conditions, and maybe even throw Lavanza in there too?

That's a pretty great idea - it'd also allow for some bonus personae to be represented that aren't included in the main moveset or as assists.

Elizabeth, Margaret, and Theodore joining their siblings would be A+ service as well (Lavenza too, though I could see them leaving her out depending on if we're assuming people have played Persona 5 or not).

Another thought: If it's not already a transforming stage, then maybe the Battlefield/Omega versions could cover more games? Battlefield could use the random-floating-things design of the PQ Velvet Room with the Final Destination being the flat elevator of P3?

On a different note, while discussed in the main discussion thread, I don't think anyone pointed out these tweets here:

https://twitter.com/RelaxAlax/status/1033529139389710337

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1033915318786121728

While the petty part of me is thinking "Yes, I've been arguring that Persona 5 influenced the UI since E3; where have you been," it's great to see people important to the Smash community discussing the Persona/Smash UI connection and hopefully it brings more attention to the idea of ATLUS in Smash.

Personally, the idea of Sakurai telling his graphics team "Please make the biggest Nintendo game of 2018 that gets most of the gaming community hyped to a borderline-ridiculous level look like that comparatively-niche JRPG!" is exciting to me in of itself. Plus, it increases the chance of ATLUS getting represented as Persona would be on the mind. I'm still not betting on it happening, but better low odds are still better odds.

 

[CloudedSun]

That's a pretty great idea - it'd also allow for some bonus personae to be represented that aren't included in the main moveset or as assists.

Elizabeth, Margaret, and Theodore joining their siblings would be A+ service as well (Lavenza too, though I could see them leaving her out depending on if we're assuming people have played Persona 5 or not).

Another thought: If it's not already a transforming stage, then maybe the Battlefield/Omega versions could cover more games? Battlefield could use the random-floating-things design of the PQ Velvet Room with the Final Destination being the flat elevator of P3?

On a different note, while discussed in the main discussion thread, I don't think anyone pointed out these tweets here:

https://twitter.com/RelaxAlax/status/1033529139389710337

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1033915318786121728

While the petty part of me is thinking "Yes, I've been arguring that Persona 5 influenced the UI since E3; where have you been," it's great to see people important to the Smash community discussing the Persona/Smash UI connection and hopefully it brings more attention to the idea of ATLUS in Smash.

Personally, the idea of Sakurai telling his graphics team "Please make the biggest Nintendo game of 2018 that gets most of the gaming community hyped to a borderline-ridiculous level look like that comparatively-niche JRPG!" is exciting to me in of itself. Plus, it increases the chance of ATLUS getting represented as Persona would be on the mind. I'm still not betting on it happening, but better low odds are still better odds.

People argue the cut ins are a Fire Emblem thing, but Awakening had it before Smash 4 came to be. I'd agree that UI elements felt a lot like a blend of Smash and Persona, as Sakurai also said the UI in the latter can be a bit complicated.

Sakurai is a big Persona fan, even got invited to a concert by Atlus themselves. I hope Joker sees some spotlight in his eyes, because I feel like he'd be the perfect select choice for DLC that will catch everyone off guard and yet be extremely popular.

 

[Black Link521]

Just a little side thought, but with the possibility of Ultimate taking inspiration from Persona 5, the aesthetics of the victory screen in Ultimate have a more intense, colorful, and cartoon-like explosion popping out of the background. Here's Smash Wii U:

Now Ultimate:

 

[DogManStar]

The aesthetics definitely look very similar, and seeing how much Sakurai praised the UI of Persona 5, it’s reasonable to think Ultimate is taking a leaf out of the game’s book.

 

[Black Link521]

Just a little side thought, but with the possibility of Ultimate taking inspiration from Persona 5, the aesthetics of the victory screen in Ultimate have a more intense, colorful, and cartoon-like explosion popping out of the background. Here's Smash Wii U:

Now Ultimate:

I found a better picture for Wii U just for a fair comparison.

 

[CloudedSun]

I found a better picture for Wii U just for a fair comparison.

Oddly though, I had to say an explosion of color wasn't really Persona 5's thing, as in there weren't a bunch of shades of color, rather it focused on utilizing vibrant blacks, whites, and reds with subtle blue and yellow undertones.

 

[Robertman2]

Kinda want a Goro echo fighter to tag along too

 

[DogManStar]

Kinda want a Goro echo fighter to tag along too

Been thinking this for a long time now too. Maybe he could use bless effects instead of Joker’s curse.

 

[Black Link521]

Oddly though, I had to say an explosion of color wasn't really Persona 5's thing, as in there weren't a bunch of shades of color, rather it focused on utilizing vibrant blacks, whites, and reds with subtle blue and yellow undertones.

Well, yeah. It's just that the stylish nature of the new victory screens reminds me a little of All-Out Attacks.

 

[RedDragon64]

Low key want HECK High key want HIM!!!!!

 

[NintenZ]

That's a pretty great idea - it'd also allow for some bonus personae to be represented that aren't included in the main moveset or as assists.

Elizabeth, Margaret, and Theodore joining their siblings would be A+ service as well (Lavenza too, though I could see them leaving her out depending on if we're assuming people have played Persona 5 or not).

Yeah, I feel like the siblings could alternate between battles, maybe one battle you could be fighting Margaret while the next one Elizabeth and Theodore? Who knows, I feel there’s a lot of potential for the idea.

Another thought: If it's not already a transforming stage, then maybe the Battlefield/Omega versions could cover more games? Battlefield could use the random-floating-things design of the PQ Velvet Room with the Final Destination being the flat elevator of P3?

That’s a really good idea actually, and it fits with the heme of how the Velvet Room can change shape. I’d actually think that idea would be pretty good tbh.

On a different note, while discussed in the main discussion thread, I don't think anyone pointed out these tweets here:

https://twitter.com/RelaxAlax/status/1033529139389710337

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1033915318786121728

While the petty part of me is thinking "Yes, I've been arguring that Persona 5 influenced the UI since E3; where have you been," it's great to see people important to the Smash community discussing the Persona/Smash UI connection and hopefully it brings more attention to the idea of ATLUS in Smash.

Personally, the idea of Sakurai telling his graphics team "Please make the biggest Nintendo game of 2018 that gets most of the gaming community hyped to a borderline-ridiculous level look like that comparatively-niche JRPG!" is exciting to me in of itself. Plus, it increases the chance of ATLUS getting represented as Persona would be on the mind. I'm still not betting on it happening, but better low odds are still better odds.

I’ve always thought the UI was similar to Persona 5’s, and this really supports that idea. Especially since Sakurai considers the UI for P5 a “Gold Standard”, so everything falls into place.

Kinda want a Goro echo fighter to tag along too

As a person who’s in the band of people who hate Akechi (I don’t like him one bit as a character), I have to say that this is a good idea, he definitely fits as a Joker Echo and would add another something special to the roster that I can’t go into because spoilers, but yes, I really think Akechi works as a Joker Echo.

Also on the Smash Underdogs Discord server, we kinda debated on whether Mass Destruction could be in Smash because of it’s lyrics, but we came to a solution that it could use the Atlus Kitajoh remix which combines is with Burn My Dread and gets rid of most of the rap verses, so I have a feeling that this would be the version in Smash:

 

[RedDragon64]

Yo anyone have a joker stock for my Signature???
JOKER4SMASHULT

 

[amageish]

People argue the cut ins are a Fire Emblem thing, but Awakening had it before Smash 4 came to be. I'd agree that UI elements felt a lot like a blend of Smash and Persona, as Sakurai also said the UI in the latter can be a bit complicated.

Yeah, plus the cut-ins in Smash Ultimate are much more jagged then in Awakening. And if there is one thing P5's UI is known for, it's jagged geometric shapes.

Spoiler

Kinda want a Goro echo fighter to tag along too

I feel like Goro may be too different to really work as an Echo Fighter IMHO.

Spoiler: Persona 5 Spoilers

While he can switch between two Persona, it's not clear if he has the full power of the Wild Card like Joker does or just the power of having two personae. Plus, it seems like him switching personae also switches his outfit, which would be hard to animate if he switches between them on the go. If Joker were to fight only with Arsene (something that is possible, though disappointing in my opinion), then maybe they could replace him with Robin Hood only, but the hitboxes of Robin Hood would be different then Arsene... Plus, their guns and melee weapons are also quite different...

It could still happen and I don't want to be a party-pooper, but it would be fairly unprecedented in changes when compared to the Echo Fighters we've seen so far...

Yeah, I feel like the siblings could alternate between battles, maybe one battle you could be fighting Margaret while the next one Elizabeth and Theodore? Who knows, I feel there’s a lot of potential for the idea.

That'd definitely be cool, yeah. If there is a single-player campaign focused on bosses, then they could also save one of them for that while using the other three for the stage?

That’s a really good idea actually, and it fits with the heme of how the Velvet Room can change shape. I’d actually think that idea would be pretty good tbh.

Thanks~! I ocassionally have good ideas haha.

Also on the Smash Underdogs Discord server, we kinda debated on whether Mass Destruction could be in Smash because of it’s lyrics, but we came to a solution that it could use the Atlus Kitajoh remix which combines is with Burn My Dread and gets rid of most of the rap verses, so I have a feeling that this would be the version in Smash:

I'm not an expert on ESRB ratings, but I imagine some basic censorship could make the regular version work... I do like that remix though, so I'd also be okay with that...

If we're discussing music: What song(s) would you hope to get Smash Brothers exclusive remixes? I'd like a more rock-y version of the Velvet Room Theme, another remix of Last Surprise, and a new version of Light the Fire Up in the Night.

 

[Robertman2]

Yeah, plus the cut-ins in Smash Ultimate are much more jagged then in Awakening. And if there is one thing P5's UI is known for, it's jagged geometric shapes.

Spoiler

I feel like Goro may be too different to really work as an Echo Fighter IMHO.

Spoiler: Persona 5 Spoilers

While he can switch between two Persona, it's not clear if he has the full power of the Wild Card like Joker does or just the power of having two personae. Plus, it seems like him switching personae also switches his outfit, which would be hard to animate if he switches between them on the go. If Joker were to fight only with Arsene (something that is possible, though disappointing in my opinion), then maybe they could replace him with Robin Hood only, but the hitboxes of Robin Hood would be different then Arsene... Plus, their guns and melee weapons are also quite different...

It could still happen and I don't want to be a party-pooper, but it would be fairly unprecedented in changes when compared to the Echo Fighters we've seen so far...



That'd definitely be cool, yeah. If there is a single-player campaign focused on bosses, then they could also save one of them for that while using the other three for the stage?



Thanks~! I ocassionally have good ideas haha.



I'm not an expert on ESRB ratings, but I imagine some basic censorship could make the regular version work... I do like that remix though, so I'd also be okay with that...

If we're discussing music: What song(s) would you hope to get Smash Brothers exclusive remixes? I'd like a more rock-y version of the Velvet Room Theme, another remix of Last Surprise, and a new version of Light the Fire Up in the Night.

Honestly, about Echo fighters, the only ones (going by Verge's leak) that really work are Ken, and. especially doesn't work lol.

But yeah Robin Hood's hitboxes would be a problem.

 

[USAnyan]

Now that PQ2 is finally confirmed to be released on the 3DS, I can finally make this thread!

Joker is the cunning and stylish leader of the Phantom Thieves from Persona 5. While Persona itself has made minimal appearances on Nintendo consoles, Persona is only a part of the very expansive Megami Tensei series, with the core Megami Tensei games having a huge prominence on Nintendo consoles and most recent titles appearing exclusively on Nintendo. You might argue why not have a Megami Tensei character then? And to answer that, Persona 5 has hit massive success, having sold two million copies massively outselling the most recent Shin Megami Tensei game, and it was even nominated for game of the year having contested with the likes of Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild! Furthermore, a game titled Persona Q2 will be coming sometime this year on Nintendo 3DS and it's practically guarenteed to feature Joker, meaning he'll be making his debut on a Nintendo console fairly soon, whether or not he gets in Smash.

With him he brings his dagger, his pistol, his second self Arsene, and his snazzy dance moves. Joker's dagger are kinda short ranged and he sacrifices speed for style, but he makes up for that with his gun and Arsene offering ranged projectiles and priority, and his fancy footwork keeping him hard to hit. Opponents must keep their guard up; underestimating Joker would be no different to having a death wish.

Let me know what you think of Joker in Smash. Don't be afraid to let your voice be heard!

Spoiler: Moveset

Courtesy of @Xeno610
Neutral: Eiha - Joker summons a projectile from the ground that targets his closest enemy, but they can't be too far away from him. It does weak damage and knockback as a result.
Side: Sneak - Joker does a quick dash forward and it acts like a command grab. If he grabs someone, he throws them to the ground and he can follow up with whatever he wants. If it's done in the air and he grabs someone, it's basically a meteor effect; Joker will throw the enemy downward and he'll have another jump.
Down: Phantom Cloak - A counter with two different properties. If attacked by a physical attack, he'll follow up with a weak attack. If attacked by a projectile, he reflects the projectile back to the enemy.
Up: Wings of Rebellion - Joker gains the wings from Arsene and he glides upwards, like Corrin's up special.
Final Smash: All-Out Attack - A trapping cinematic Final Smash. Joker uses a curse attack and anyone caught in it will be attacked by him and 3 others (probably Makoto, Yusuke, and Morgana). The move does 30% damage, but it instantly kills anyone over 100% damage. If it's a stock match and Joker caught any remaining enemies that reached over 100%, then The Show's Over.

Neutral: Downward swipe -> upward and jump swipe -> finish with a downward swipe. His Attack animation in P5. If you are quick enough to do a smash attack, the last hit (his downward slash) would have its properties changed and he'll follow up with a shot from his gun. His regular neutral would have the final hit do minor knockback. The smash neutral needs you to do a side smash after the second slice (the upwards slice) and the downwards slice becomes a meteor smash where you can then follow up with his gun. This is to mimic his critical hit. The weakness with it is that the meteor is techable and the gunshot does no shield damage and will leave Joker wide open.
Side Tilt: A horizontal swipe, as if he was stealing a smaller treasure in P5.
Side smash: A vertical slice downward, as if he attacked an enemy in the overworld but didn't get the ambush in P5.
Up tilt: An upward slice that leads to Joker spinning his dagger.
Up Smash: I was thinking something like Guile's Flash Kick or Yoshi's up smash. An alternate idea I have is him doing a gunshot upwards.
Down tilt: A gunshot downward.
Down smash: Either a breakdance kick like the Mario Bros.' down smash or a slide.
Nair: Slices his dagger in front of him and behind him, like Robin's nair.
Fair: A karate styled kick or a gunshot forward. Uair: A bicycle kick.
Bair: A backwards kick.
Dair: He shoots downwards with his gun and does a little spin. The spin does minor damage, but the gunshots do a lot more.
Dash Attack: He does a little spin and does a downwards slice/stab.
Grab: He grabs with his left arm, the arm free from his dagger. His pummel is a punch.
Forward throw: He does a forward stab with his dagger.
Back throw: He elbows the opponent backwards.
Up throw: He punches his opponent upwards.
Down throw: He throws the opponent to the ground and shoots.

Idle: He stands, like when he is waiting for his turn in Persona 5. Occassionally, he will spin his dagger.
Idle Animation 1: Joker adjusts his mask as if they were his glasses.
Idle Animation 2: Joker gets in a battle ready pose, like it is his turn in P5. Or he checks his phone while waiting.
Up Taunt: Joker writes in his probation journal and says, "I should write something", "Let's do it," or "I'll just add this." It varies.
Side Taunt: Joker does a "come on!" pose like he does during his idle animation waiting for his turn in P5.
Down Taunt: Joker stomps one of his feet and rubs it. Think of the menu animation when you use a Skill like Dia.
On Screen Appearance: The Metaverse effect appears and Joker emerges from it.
Victory 1: Joker puts a hand behind his neck and moves his head as if he got a question correct in class. He either says, "It's a step forward" or "It's a change of heart".
Victory 2: Joker is opening a treasure chest, but when he notices the cameraman, he elbows them away and they land on the ground. Joker makes a quick escape afterwards.
Victory 3: This one is my personal favorite. Instead of a screen transition where there is a diagonal slash, Joker takes the very last frame of the fight and puts it in his pocket. He either says, "I won't forget this feeling" or "Looking cool, am I?"
Victory Theme: The P5 victory theme and it's on a loop like Cloud's.

Walk: Joker just walks like he does in P5.
Dash: Joker sprints like he does in P5 when you hold down the run button.
Sidestep Dodge: He steps back.
Roll: Joker does a roll so quick that you can only see the effects of him dodging. This is like in P5 when you go from one hiding spot to another. The roll has a similar affect to Mewtwo's and Palutena's. (note: sidestep and roll share a sound effect when Joker goes from one spot to another)
Jump: Joker flips on his first jump and does another flip during his midair jump.
Fall: He falls down like he does during the infiltration log.
Land: He lands like he does during the infiltration log.
Crouch: Similar to his land actually; he can't crawl.
Dizzy: The animation Joker makes when he is inflicted with a status aliment.
Sleep: Joker just sits down on the ground and sleeps.
Other animations, like his getting hit animation would be like the one from P5 and when he is hit to the ground facing forward it's his death animation. Facial expressions would be smug and confident, with a lot of smiles and grins.

The Phandom! (Supporter list)
Robertman2
@Xeno610
@DarkAuraful
@Lindow
@Strider_Bond00J
@Freduardo

Now that PQ2 is finally confirmed to be released on the 3DS, I can finally make this thread!

Joker is the cunning and stylish leader of the Phantom Thieves from Persona 5. While Persona itself has made minimal appearances on Nintendo consoles, Persona is only a part of the very expansive Megami Tensei series, with the core Megami Tensei games having a huge prominence on Nintendo consoles and most recent titles appearing exclusively on Nintendo. You might argue why not have a Megami Tensei character then? And to answer that, Persona 5 has hit massive success, having sold two million copies massively outselling the most recent Shin Megami Tensei game, and it was even nominated for game of the year having contested with the likes of Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild! Furthermore, a game titled Persona Q2 will be coming sometime this year on Nintendo 3DS and it's practically guarenteed to feature Joker, meaning he'll be making his debut on a Nintendo console fairly soon, whether or not he gets in Smash.

With him he brings his dagger, his pistol, his second self Arsene, and his snazzy dance moves. Joker's dagger are kinda short ranged and he sacrifices speed for style, but he makes up for that with his gun and Arsene offering ranged projectiles and priority, and his fancy footwork keeping him hard to hit. Opponents must keep their guard up; underestimating Joker would be no different to having a death wish.

Let me know what you think of Joker in Smash. Don't be afraid to let your voice be heard!

Spoiler: Moveset

Courtesy of @Xeno610
Neutral: Eiha - Joker summons a projectile from the ground that targets his closest enemy, but they can't be too far away from him. It does weak damage and knockback as a result.
Side: Sneak - Joker does a quick dash forward and it acts like a command grab. If he grabs someone, he throws them to the ground and he can follow up with whatever he wants. If it's done in the air and he grabs someone, it's basically a meteor effect; Joker will throw the enemy downward and he'll have another jump.
Down: Phantom Cloak - A counter with two different properties. If attacked by a physical attack, he'll follow up with a weak attack. If attacked by a projectile, he reflects the projectile back to the enemy.
Up: Wings of Rebellion - Joker gains the wings from Arsene and he glides upwards, like Corrin's up special.
Final Smash: All-Out Attack - A trapping cinematic Final Smash. Joker uses a curse attack and anyone caught in it will be attacked by him and 3 others (probably Makoto, Yusuke, and Morgana). The move does 30% damage, but it instantly kills anyone over 100% damage. If it's a stock match and Joker caught any remaining enemies that reached over 100%, then The Show's Over.

Neutral: Downward swipe -> upward and jump swipe -> finish with a downward swipe. His Attack animation in P5. If you are quick enough to do a smash attack, the last hit (his downward slash) would have its properties changed and he'll follow up with a shot from his gun. His regular neutral would have the final hit do minor knockback. The smash neutral needs you to do a side smash after the second slice (the upwards slice) and the downwards slice becomes a meteor smash where you can then follow up with his gun. This is to mimic his critical hit. The weakness with it is that the meteor is techable and the gunshot does no shield damage and will leave Joker wide open.
Side Tilt: A horizontal swipe, as if he was stealing a smaller treasure in P5.
Side smash: A vertical slice downward, as if he attacked an enemy in the overworld but didn't get the ambush in P5.
Up tilt: An upward slice that leads to Joker spinning his dagger.
Up Smash: I was thinking something like Guile's Flash Kick or Yoshi's up smash. An alternate idea I have is him doing a gunshot upwards.
Down tilt: A gunshot downward.
Down smash: Either a breakdance kick like the Mario Bros.' down smash or a slide.
Nair: Slices his dagger in front of him and behind him, like Robin's nair.
Fair: A karate styled kick or a gunshot forward. Uair: A bicycle kick.
Bair: A backwards kick.
Dair: He shoots downwards with his gun and does a little spin. The spin does minor damage, but the gunshots do a lot more.
Dash Attack: He does a little spin and does a downwards slice/stab.
Grab: He grabs with his left arm, the arm free from his dagger. His pummel is a punch.
Forward throw: He does a forward stab with his dagger.
Back throw: He elbows the opponent backwards.
Up throw: He punches his opponent upwards.
Down throw: He throws the opponent to the ground and shoots.

Idle: He stands, like when he is waiting for his turn in Persona 5. Occassionally, he will spin his dagger.
Idle Animation 1: Joker adjusts his mask as if they were his glasses.
Idle Animation 2: Joker gets in a battle ready pose, like it is his turn in P5. Or he checks his phone while waiting.
Up Taunt: Joker writes in his probation journal and says, "I should write something", "Let's do it," or "I'll just add this." It varies.
Side Taunt: Joker does a "come on!" pose like he does during his idle animation waiting for his turn in P5.
Down Taunt: Joker stomps one of his feet and rubs it. Think of the menu animation when you use a Skill like Dia.
On Screen Appearance: The Metaverse effect appears and Joker emerges from it.
Victory 1: Joker puts a hand behind his neck and moves his head as if he got a question correct in class. He either says, "It's a step forward" or "It's a change of heart".
Victory 2: Joker is opening a treasure chest, but when he notices the cameraman, he elbows them away and they land on the ground. Joker makes a quick escape afterwards.
Victory 3: This one is my personal favorite. Instead of a screen transition where there is a diagonal slash, Joker takes the very last frame of the fight and puts it in his pocket. He either says, "I won't forget this feeling" or "Looking cool, am I?"
Victory Theme: The P5 victory theme and it's on a loop like Cloud's.

Walk: Joker just walks like he does in P5.
Dash: Joker sprints like he does in P5 when you hold down the run button.
Sidestep Dodge: He steps back.
Roll: Joker does a roll so quick that you can only see the effects of him dodging. This is like in P5 when you go from one hiding spot to another. The roll has a similar affect to Mewtwo's and Palutena's. (note: sidestep and roll share a sound effect when Joker goes from one spot to another)
Jump: Joker flips on his first jump and does another flip during his midair jump.
Fall: He falls down like he does during the infiltration log.
Land: He lands like he does during the infiltration log.
Crouch: Similar to his land actually; he can't crawl.
Dizzy: The animation Joker makes when he is inflicted with a status aliment.
Sleep: Joker just sits down on the ground and sleeps.
Other animations, like his getting hit animation would be like the one from P5 and when he is hit to the ground facing forward it's his death animation. Facial expressions would be smug and confident, with a lot of smiles and grins.

The Phandom! (Supporter list)
Robertman2
@Xeno610
@DarkAuraful
@Lindow
@Strider_Bond00J
@Freduardo

personally I feel like his entrance animation would be him driving out of morgana in his truck form, but that’s just me.

I think Joker could be a good DLC character. Persona is one of the more popular monster catchers, and with the recent success of P5, I think it’s about time it got its representation in smash

 

[NintenZ]

If we're discussing music: What song(s) would you hope to get Smash Brothers exclusive remixes? I'd like a more rock-y version of the Velvet Room Theme, another remix of Last Surprise, and a new version of Light the Fire Up in the Night.

I feel like some songs that could get remixes are Snow Queen, Mass Destruction, Reach Out For The Truth, Light the Fire Up in the Sky, Last Surprise, and Life Will Change.

 

[amageish]

Honestly, about Echo fighters, the only ones (going by Verge's leak) that really work are Ken, and. especially doesn't work lol.

But yeah Robin Hood's hitboxes would be a problem.

Fair counterpoint haha. Assuming Shadow is in, that would also give precedence to SEGA characters ignoring half their logical powers to be an echo. So, maybe it's more possible then I think haha.

I feel like some songs that could get remixes are Snow Queen, Mass Destruction, Reach Out For The Truth, Light the Fire Up in the Sky, Last Surprise, and Life Will Change.

Ooo, Snow Queen. Nice P1 choice. If we're including the games that nobody talks about, then I'd love a Knights of the Holy Spear remix too.

 

[Robertman2]

P1 deserves no representation in this game at all


Also no Rivers remix, shame on you

 

[DogManStar]

Yeah, I'm not sure how plausible Goro as an echo really is, but it would certainly be hype.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I personally think Akechi as an echo is nigh-impossible. Atlus did what they could to keep this game under wraps to avoid spoiling others. The entire game is a blocked scene that isn't recordable without a separate capture card. A spoiler like Akechi's Persona usage and whatnot making it into smash, I think, won't happen. I know Sakurai doesn't really let spoilers stop him, but Persona isn't a Nintendo property that he has free reign over.