Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TempestSurge]

I believe too but let's just keep a bit of reserve on this guys. Remember how certain we were Isaac would appear in the last nintendo direct after theories and hints we had ? And the crisis after Isabelle's reveal ? This would be nothing compared to the deception and chaos this leak would bring if it turns to be fake, we don't want world war III.
I don't want to say hype responsibly because I think it's stupid, hype is hype. But just keep your two feet on the ground while enjoying all this till official confirmation.

Without even having to go full Sherlock Holmes on the leak, some of the characters just make sense regardless and like Isaac, haven't gotten debunked. Like after the August direct brought to life echoes, Shadow was a pretty popular one to bring up. And just like Isabelle, his assist trophy was also conveniently replaced and his assist is still nowhere to be seen. But because Verge (who didn't list Shadow) and box theory (limited spots left) were gaining traction, Shadow seemed to have fallen off of people's radar. And since the community seemed so convinced that we were in for 2-3 characters, for a moment I wondered if Shadow was a freaking boss in Spirits Mode or something cause it made zero sense that his assist would be replaced and cease to exist when he's a pretty popular Sonic character in general.

And I just got lazy so Isaac, Geno, and Ken have stuff going in their favor that I don't want to turn this into an essay lol.

If anything Banjo was the surprise to me, I felt that we were in for one more third party and it'd go to Geno and Banjo would be prime DLC or something.

 

[Jibunzo]

Hey y'all, long time supporter (13 years?) and first time caller. The possibility of Growth psynergy as an item has me all kinds of flustered. I've been trying to read everything here, so I may have missed it, but we actually do have some precedence of psynergy being represented by a bubble/sphere within Smash Bros itself. Check out Isaac's hand when casting Move in Brawl. Now I'm not saying this is any sort of definitive proof connecting the new item to Golden Sun, I just wanted to put it out there.

 

[FlawedAI]

My take on the Grinch leak is not the banner itself, but the circumstances surrounding it. The attitude of the leaker, the Grinch material, the resume, it all either makes the leaker the smartest person to ever live, or it makes the leak real. I choose to believe the latter.

On the characters, this is the best Smash newcomer pool ever. Period. No other game comes close. They all have their clunkers (Dr. Mario + Young Link in Melee, Zero Suit Samus in Brawl, Wii Fit, Dark Pit, Lucina, Corrin in 4), but this game has none (to me at least).

Inklings were the most expected, but the fact that they are a pressure/resource management character and not a zoner makes me so happy.
Daisy is cool, I guess. I like Daisy, but she's not very far up on my list.
Ridley is awesome. I'm not even a Metroid fan, but his presence shows that Sakurai is actually listening to the fans. It's such a great feeling knowing that we matter this time around.
Simon is hype, a shame he got leaked, but I'm pumped for his move set, even thought...
Richter is just a cooler Simon. I'm so excited to play as him.
Chrom is cool, I guess. He's not really for me, but it means a new Robin Final Smash, so that's cool (Grima pls).
Dark Samus, while I don't really care about the character, she means a lot more to the Metroid fanbase, so they deserve it.
King K. Rool is the most hype pick right out the bat for me so far. I actually have an emotional attachment to him, so his appearance is fantastic.
Isabelle is probably the least hype pick for me. She came when I was expecting Isaac, so she kinda got off to a bad start, but I just don't care about Animal Crossing.
Shadow is not really hype, cause I hate how Sonic plays in Smash and having another, edgier Sonic does nothing for me lol.
Ken is the echo I'm most excited for, if only because I like to play as Ryu, even if I suck at it lol.
Chorus Kids would be the second least hype pick, but if they have a rhythm/timing based move set, I think I might like them a lot.
Mach Rider is actually the second-most anticipated character for me, if only to see how he/she plays.
Geno means nothing to me personally, but I'm so excited for his fans.
Banjo - see above.
Isaac is literally the only character I want. I have a couple others I'd like (Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Phoenix Wright), but Isaac is the only one I will actively support, because I want Golden Sun back. Nintendo is really lacking a traditional RPG franchise, and Golden Sun has the potential to be another Xenoblade/Fire Emblem, but only if Nintendo tries. When I see that splash screen for Isaac, I think I might actually cry, for it will be a sight more beautiful than any heaven could ever be.

 

[NessAtc.]

I'm a boomer so I can't explain why that isn't a valid response, but Omni has: https://mobile.twitter.com/artsyomni/status/1055984200694857729

That's not an explanation. It's a challenge.

He doesn't provide any reasoning why the explanation doesn't work, he just says it doesn't.

 

[Nazyrus]

2014: "The ESRB leak obviously can't be real because Wario's eye is shoddily done and Shulk is a photoshopped Little Mac!"

2018: "The Grinch leak obviously can't be real because the background is shoddily done and Banjo is a photoshopped Smashified Banjo!"

Some things never change...

Yeah… the signs repeating actually make me more excited about this… I hope it happens again really. This leak's roster just makes sense as for what Sakurai would go with...

 

[BravadoMan_13]

Came across this in the Banjo Kazooie thread.

The mural image looks to be a little more clearer.

 

[THE 6r]

Came across this in the Banjo Kazooie thread.

The mural image looks to be a little more clearer.

Here's the other image with unconfirmed characters circled for comparison purposes.

 

[pholtos]

Weren't there items in golden sun you could use in battles with psyenergy effects?

Yup.
Bramble Seed - Nettle
Crystal Powder - Hail Prism
Oil Drop - Flare Storm
Weasel's Claw - Sonic Slash

Hey, I have a question for all of you. Outside of Isaac, what other characters in the leak are you excited for? I am rather excited for Geno, as he has always been at the top of my list. I am fine with the rest of the characters and glad that so many long requests are coming through, but my shock and curiosity over Mach Rider got me to look more into him/her and I am quite excited for the character now.

While I'm excited for fans of those wanting others in the leak, the only one besides Isaac that I have some sorta interest in trying is the Chorus Kids. Mostly cause I like playing dorb characters. That's it. My signature should basically give you an idea of the chars I like to play. (and Old Manondorf)

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

That's not an explanation. It's a challenge.

He doesn't provide any reasoning why the explanation doesn't work, he just says it doesn't.

Then please, PLEASE answer his challenge and prove him wrong. I want this leak to be real so badly but my gut is telling me Omni is right

 

[Gioka]

If this leak is real (which I believe is) what are we doing to send our gratefulness to Sakurai? I know it has been touched up before but I think we never actually came up with a plan

 

[EarlTamm]

If this leak is real (which I believe is) what are we doing to send our gratefulness to Sakurai? I know it has been touched up before but I think we never actually came up with a plan

Well, perhaps it would be best to reassure him that the leak did not spoil the gift of having Issac and the others in, if the leak is indeed real. I am sure Sakurai would be quite disheartened to see his game roster be leaked again, so it would be a nice thing to do.

 

[?!?!?!]

If anything Banjo was the surprise to me, I felt that we were in for one more third party and it'd go to Geno and Banjo would be prime DLC or something.

I recall reading somewhere that the latest banjo and kazooie trademark renewal was under Nintendo...not sure if that's true or not as I haven't looked into it, but if that's the case banjo would be a 1st party character!

Edit: on second thought they could still be owned by Microsoft so that's still 3rd party. Lol

 

[EarlTamm]

I recall reading somewhere that the latest banjo and kazooie trademark renewal was under Nintendo...not sure if that's true or not as I haven't looked into it, but if that's the case banjo would be a 1st party character!

There was a lot of recent trademarks for several of these characters, but I don't know about that.

 

[?!?!?!]

There was a lot of recent trademarks for several of these characters, but I don't know about that.

I don't have a link unfortunately, I kinda just browsed through it in the ultimate discussion thread a while ago. I'll just assume it isn't anything though because people would've been talking about it like crazy by now

 

[SundaeS]

The problem is, the kind of details lost in Snapchat video compression aren't the large details missing in the leak (the castle, waterfalls, and crystals). Perhaps the way it was clipped together explains some of the discrepancies in the areas where it was put together, but how does it explain the missing/changed clouds and waterfalls on the edges of the map where, coincidentally, characters were always covering?
I despise the proposition of box theory being all we get, and I want nothing more than for this leak to be true.. But with the evidence Omni presented I just can't believe it anymore.

I just think looking at these things too closely will drive anyone nuts. I've seen a lot of evidence for and against the leak so far not just Omni's and I like to keep an open mind to all this. Plus some of my own opinion forming from my own observations. I also like we moved past the box theory at least even for a while. I hope we get Isaac either waaay.

Hey y'all, long time supporter (13 years?) and first time caller. The possibility of Growth psynergy as an item has me all kinds of flustered. I've been trying to read everything here, so I may have missed it, but we actually do have some precedence of psynergy being represented by a bubble/sphere within Smash Bros itself. Check out Isaac's hand when casting Move in Brawl. Now I'm not saying this is any sort of definitive proof connecting the new item to Golden Sun, I just wanted to put it out there.

Wow I kind of wanna try photoshopping one of the Growth Psynergy Icons into that bubble. These are the kind of observations that get me really excited though.

Well speaking of observations that drive me nuts. I tried looking at the Sprout/Sapling in the Wendy's video. There was one specific thing about the Saplings I remembered in Golden Sun that they would move back and forth in the field. So I tried to look for that in the videos. Though the video shows the item for a very brief moment. I got the image of when it's teetering to the left and one I believe it might be transitioning and moving to the right. But the screen goes up so it may have distorted the image. I don't know it does seem it was standing straight though.

Also I have heard arguments about it being a Mario sapling and maybe to a lesser extent it could be related to Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons. I thought about it for a while but maybe it would be more appropriate to be a Nut if it was referencing Mario Odyssey where you need to get nuts to plant and make plants grow. In Harvest Moon you usually need seeds to plant stuff, but I have never seen any Harvest moon stuff in Smash so far so I'd be confused if they started now.

Eh that's all I have for this leak in terms of some serious speculation and thought. I could be wrong either way, but hey would I love to be right.

 

[Q-Long]

If this leak is real (which I believe is) what are we doing to send our gratefulness to Sakurai? I know it has been touched up before but I think we never actually came up with a plan

A thank you from fans. There are several ways we could do this.

Isaac - Thank you from fans of Isaac and Golden Sun
Obscure/Dead Nintendo Series - Thank Sakurai for giving dead / obscure Nintendo series a shoutout (Mach Rider, Chorus Kids, Isaac)
Thank you for putting in fan characters - Thank you not just for the above 2 things, but also for just more fan inclusions this time, from Ridley to Simon to any of these potential newcomers

The thank yous would come in the form of notes and pictures and stuff. Maybe not just pics of Isaac, maybe him interacting with the cast.

 

[FlawedAI]

The Banjo trademark was just renewed in September (with a supposed acceptance of December), so it lines up for a Smash reveal (though he could've just needed a renewal). But, it was by Rare (not Nintendo or Microsoft), so take that what you will.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I just think looking at these things too closely will drive anyone nuts. I've seen a lot of evidence for and against the leak so far not just Omni's and I like to keep an open mind to all this. Plus some of my own opinion forming from my own observations. I also like we moved past the box theory at least even for a while. I hope we get Isaac either waaay.



Wow I kind of wanna try photoshopping one of the Growth Psynergy Icons into that bubble. These are the kind of observations that get me really excited though.

Well speaking of observations that drive me nuts. I tried looking at the Sprout/Sapling in the Wendy's video. There was one specific thing about the Saplings I remembered in Golden Sun that they would move back and forth in the field. So I tried to look for that in the videos. Though the video shows the item for a very brief moment. I got the image of when it's teetering to the left and one I believe it might be transitioning and moving to the right. But the screen goes up so it may have distorted the image. I don't know it does seem it was standing straight though.

Also I have heard arguments about it being a Mario sapling and maybe to a lesser extent it could be related to Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons. I thought about it for a while but maybe it would be more appropriate to be a Nut if it was referencing Mario Odyssey where you need to get nuts to plant and make plants grow. In Harvest Moon you usually need seeds to plant stuff, but I have never seen any Harvest moon stuff in Smash so far so I'd be confused if they started now.

Eh that's all I have for this leak in terms of some serious speculation and thought. I could be wrong either way, but hey would I love to be right.

How could I have forgotten harvest moon! We need to pour through all the seedling sprites/models in Harvest Moon now.. I also think it's totally possible the sapling is a Mario sprout, but it would definitely be weird for it to appear in a bubble and have a thinner stem/flatter leaves.

 

[9Blades]

Since Harvest Moon was brought up, I decided to look through what spriters-resource had for that series. Immediately in Harvest Moon DS, I found these. Other than the sprouts being shorter, it's kinda similar? I'll keep looking through the series to see what else I find...

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Since Harvest Moon was brought up, I decided to look through what spriters-resource had for that series. Immediately in Harvest Moon DS, I found these. Other than the sprouts being shorter, it's kinda similar? I'll keep looking through the series to see what else I find...
View attachment 172498

Thanks bud!
The colors here are similar but they're nearly totally lacking stems.

 

[SonicLink125]

I keep reading both sides on this mural thing and it's really ticking me off that they're forgetting one (or several) crucial element of this whole thing: This mural is specifically made for a sky tube display, not for a wall poster. These are not just simple paper/posters, this is completely different material separated into three parts. Plus, there will possibility be light inside. If you wanted to make the characters standout and not get clashed with certain elements in the background, you would make certain edits to the background itself. And for a light being inside, ever tried a lamp with a different shade? It looks different when the light is on, right? Whatever colors their using for this sky tube, it's to make it so the light brings it to life.

I don't understand why no one talks about this. Unless I've missed it.

I'm no expert at this. Just observations I've been making. People are forgetting what this mural's purpose is for.

Edit: words

 

[?!?!?!]

Since Harvest Moon was brought up, I decided to look through what spriters-resource had for that series. Immediately in Harvest Moon DS, I found these. Other than the sprouts being shorter, it's kinda similar? I'll keep looking through the series to see what else I find...
View attachment 172498

It's kinda similar yeah. I'm actually kinda surprised harvest moon hasn't been represented in smash yet, isn't Natsume owned by Nintendo?

 

[THE 6r]

I keep reading both sides on this mural thing and it's really ticking me off that they're forgetting one (or several) crucial element of this whole thing: This mural is specifically made for a sky tube display, not for a walk poster. These are not just simple paper/posters, this is completely different material separated into three parts. Plus, there will possibility be light inside. If you wanted to make the characters standout and not get clashed with certain elements in the background, you would make certain edits to the background itself. And for a light being inside, ever tried a lamp with a different shade? It looks different when the light is on, right? Whatever colors their using for this sky tube, it's to make it so the light brings it to life.

I don't understand why no one talks about this. Unless I've missed it.

I'm no expert at this. Just observations I've been making. People are forgetting what this mural's purpose is for.

Are we allowed to broadcast this to every reach of the internet?

It's kinda similar yeah. I'm actually kinda surprised harvest moon hasn't been represented in smash yet, isn't Natsume owned by Nintendo?

No, they are not owned by Nintendo, just checked.

 

[Gioka]

Well, perhaps it would be best to reassure him that the leak did not spoil the gift of having Issac and the others in, if the leak is indeed real. I am sure Sakurai would be quite disheartened to see his game roster be leaked again, so it would be a nice thing to do.

Literally the only thing breaking my heart from that leak. I mean, it is a big game which makes the risk bigger as well but come on... I do think they made a mistake in terms of marketing by leaving such a long time without info in such a short reveal season. You need to keep communication going on, maybe the leak wouldn't have escalated so much

 

[NessAtc.]

just gonna stick this here and tell you guys to jump right on over to u/AceAssistant's posts

https://old.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9rqx5x/this_just_appeared_on_nintendos_japanese_youtube/

gonna bring this up and squish it at the same time

 

[SonicLink125]

Are we allowed to broadcast this to every reach of the internet?


No, they are not owned by Nintendo, just checked.

As long as my edit is used. Misspelled wall as walk. Lol

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hey, I have a question for all of you. Outside of Isaac, what other characters in the leak are you excited for? I am rather excited for Geno, as he has always been at the top of my list. I am fine with the rest of the characters and glad that so many long requests are coming through, but my shock and curiosity over Mach Rider got me to look more into him/her and I am quite excited for the character now.

Every single character in the leak is hype to me, you can’t imagine how I’m feeling.

In fact, every single newcomer, unique or Echo, for the game has been a character I wanted (except Richter, but I’m a huge Castlevania fan and welcome him with open arms).

Then again, I support many characters, so I got quite a bit of harsh disconfirmations. I’m against few characters, and those have very little chance of getting in.

 

[Delta64]

I said something similar earlier but, I wanted to follow up on it. First here is my original post.

Spoiler: Original Post

There is something I can't help but find weird about the banner leak (this is not evidence for or against the leak, just an observation). If this is a fake leaker who is an expert at graphic design and is a talented artist, it seems like it would make more sense for the image to be clear so that his work could be admired even after proven fake. But, the image is so low quality the artist's work cannot really be admired.

Think about some of the most famous fake image/video leaks we have seen (like the Rayman leak). Each one has had clear artwork and most focus on either a single character or a small group of characters (we have never had one attempt 7 and be this convincing). If this is in fact a fake leak, this leaker's art cannot be appreciated in the form it was put out. It's like making a terrific painting, spilling coffee all over it, and putting it out anyway.

In the history of image/video leaks for the Super Smash Bros. series, every time when there is a fake made by an individual, the person responsible for the fake will step forward and claim that they are the one who made it (the only times this doesn't happen is when the leak is easily seen as a fake). Some examples: Palutena hoax, Rayman hoax (made by Artsy Omni) and the Dr. Mario Stage leak all had their creators come forward and reveal they made the fakes. These artists often tend to show their skills through these leaks and sometimes even provide a video of them making the leak.

Yet for this leak the image has such low quality, there is no point to stepping forward and taking credit. If someone stepped forward to reveal they made this fake leak there would be nothing to be proud of because the image quality is so bad. Previous fake leaks gave us images/videos that could fit the style of the game and are creations that Artsy Omni and others can be proud of. But this? This image isn't even able to show the artistic craftsmanship that was put into it. If the banner leak is fake, then I cannot help but wonder what the point of all of that trouble was.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I keep reading both sides on this mural thing and it's really ticking me off that they're forgetting one (or several) crucial element of this whole thing: This mural is specifically made for a sky tube display, not for a wall poster. These are not just simple paper/posters, this is completely different material separated into three parts. Plus, there will possibility be light inside. If you wanted to make the characters standout and not get clashed with certain elements in the background, you would make certain edits to the background itself. And for a light being inside, ever tried a lamp with a different shade? It looks different when the light is on, right? Whatever colors their using for this sky tube, it's to make it so the light brings it to life.

I don't understand why no one talks about this. Unless I've missed it.

I'm no expert at this. Just observations I've been making. People are forgetting what this mural's purpose is for.

Edit: words

That's actually a good point, but wasn't the E3 background backlit as well? I've heard several people say that it was. I'm not sure what they mean bt backlit, though. Was the thing at E3 a screen or a poster?

 

[SundaeS]

It's kinda similar yeah. I'm actually kinda surprised harvest moon hasn't been represented in smash yet, isn't Natsume owned by Nintendo?

I don't think so and a quick google search of that shows doesn't show that's the case. Also I know it's weird, but Natsume was the one who published the games and the games were made by Marvelous/ Viktor interactive. Yeah and Harvest moon has had a ton of games on Nintendo systems, but maybe we could say the same of SMT. I didn't really bring up Harvest moon before, because even though I'm a big fan of the series I still want Isaac. But well I guess these counter-arguments have to be made sooner or later.

 

[NessAtc.]

That's actually a good point, but wasn't the E3 background backlit as well? I've heard several people say that it was. I'm not sure what they mean bt backlit, though. Was the thing at E3 a screen or a poster?

It was a screen, so it was backlit.

 

[FamicomDisk]

I don't have a link unfortunately, I kinda just browsed through it in the ultimate discussion thread a while ago. I'll just assume it isn't anything though because people would've been talking about it like crazy by now

Are you maybe referring to how Banjo-Kazooie's PEGI rating was added to the Nintendo UK website?

If so, it turned out to be them just updating old game pages - I think a Shrek game recently got updated too.

 

[SonicLink125]

That's actually a good point, but wasn't the E3 background backlit as well? I've heard several people say that it was. I'm not sure what they mean bt backlit, though. Was the thing at E3 a screen or a poster?

It was an animated one actually. A 3D render on a big tv if I recall. Completely different to the sky tube.

 

[THE 6r]

Ok, just posted SonicLink125 's light-fixture point in general and the other 6 threads of Grinch characters to make a point and give them hope.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

If this leak is real (which I believe is) what are we doing to send our gratefulness to Sakurai? I know it has been touched up before but I think we never actually came up with a plan

Yep, I won't go to much into detail but me and a few others have some things planned after Isaac is revealed via the IsaacForSmash Twitter account including a big thank you letter to Sakurai translated in Japanese like the King K.Rool fans

 

[SonicLink125]

Ok, just posted SonicLink125 's light-fixture point in general and the other 6 threads of Grinch characters to make a point and give them hope.

It's going to be extremely difficult to keep up with all the responses, but I hope this gets traction one way or another. Comparing a sky tube material to a poster is going to give you different results. I just hope people see that.

 

[THE 6r]

Yep, I won't go to much intro detail but me and a few others have some things planned after Isaac is revealed via the IsaacForSmash Twitter account including a big thank you letter to Sakurai translated in Japanese like the King K.Rool fans

As someone who's name is proudly on that K. Rool letter, this is the best course of action as not only do we express our gratitude towards Sakurai, but it may also humanize us in the eyes of many of our detractors.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

It needs saying here. Us hardcore smash fan's who follow all this junk may have some doubts, but the more causal community seem's completely content with this being real, and have accepted it as so. I've seen tons and tons of accounts on twitter of people thinking it's real regardless of Artsi Omni's analysis, or various Insider's saying it's fake. So while it may seem like the vast majority of people have accepted this as truth, we, the minority, the hardcore smash fans, are the only ones loosing hope. And the pure osmosis of being around fellow hardcore fans 24/7 is what's creating that mental picture. And in any case, the leak has stood up to so much critique at this point, we're approaching real territory mores so than exiting it.

 

[?!?!?!]

Are you maybe referring to how Banjo-Kazooie's PEGI rating was added to the Nintendo UK website?

If so, it turned out to be them just updating old game pages - I think a Shrek game recently got updated too.

That wasn't what I had in mind but I remember hearing about that yesterday. I search around a bit and the trademark renewal happened last month, but it wasn't actually by Nintendo. It's still under rare which is of course owned by Microsoft

 

[9Blades]

So after looking through available Harvest Moon sprites, the closest I could find was the first form of the Tomato in Harvest Moon SNES. (Which I think was the first one, so maybe it makes the most sense to reference that one?)

Much like how nothing exactly matches from Golden Sun, nothing from Harvest Moon seems to be an exact match.