R1ngo
Smash Journeyman
OK, no one on the MK forums seems to know how to approach Olimar.... If anyone would like to divulge any of these mystical secrets on how to approach Olimar, especially with MK, we would all be very thankful.
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- Thread starter R1ngo
- Start date
TrueRedemption
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 278
Haha, I suggest checking out shrinkray's video thread, unless by some weird twist of fate your not the same R1ngo as the MK struggling to approach him in his latest videos =P However, I can't promise you that you'll get much help here, the general undeserved hate and complaints about Olimar have made this group somewhat cold to outsiders looking for advice to beat our main. Good luck!
-True
-True
R1ngo
Smash Journeyman
I have no hate of Olimar he is an awesome character, and yes i am the same ringo that plays with shrink, i've been getting better but any other approach tips would be greatly welcomed
keeper
Smash Champion
Shuttle Loop, angle down and aerial attack at the ground over and over. <_<
R1ngo
Smash Journeyman
thats quite punishable, and that happens to be shrink favorite thing to do... punish me for repeating an attack, i'll see what happens tho
shrinkray21
Smash Ace
ME??? Punish someone for repeating attacks...i never! 
...From what I've found out in the past few days I have 2 new approaches that you should try
1) running nair - it kills my pikmin at if you do it right on me, if I shield, you'll land far enough behind me, also try nair, jump nair again until I get out of shield.
2) short hop dair - same principle as above - the goal is to get me out of my shield - jump dair, jump dair, repeat.
...From what I've found out in the past few days I have 2 new approaches that you should try1) running nair - it kills my pikmin at if you do it right on me, if I shield, you'll land far enough behind me, also try nair, jump nair again until I get out of shield.
2) short hop dair - same principle as above - the goal is to get me out of my shield - jump dair, jump dair, repeat.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
uhhhh.... MK having trouble with olimar?
uhhhhh.... use your insane priority to win? MK should be a shoe-in win against olimar, either your staying on the ground way too much, or your being way too predictable
SH dair uair works nice, nair, etc. Overall, you can out-prioritize just about any of olimars attacks. If you keep the pressure on an olimar as MK, it becomes VERY difficult as olimar...
uhhhhh.... use your insane priority to win? MK should be a shoe-in win against olimar, either your staying on the ground way too much, or your being way too predictable
SH dair uair works nice, nair, etc. Overall, you can out-prioritize just about any of olimars attacks. If you keep the pressure on an olimar as MK, it becomes VERY difficult as olimar...
R1ngo
Smash Journeyman
Smash community > Any other
Thank you guys for actually helping and not shooting me down and telling me to go back to the MK forum
Thank you guys for actually helping and not shooting me down and telling me to go back to the MK forum
R1ngo
Smash Journeyman
you do just need to realize tho, Smash Bros. has the most amazing community of any game that is competitively played, I personally would give any advice i could to another player in the spirit of being competetive. Allowing people to get better is what the forums is about, it's not a place where characters are dissed or players flame each other, it's a place for help. It's awesome, its not war just friendly competition
NC-Echo
Smash Lord
N-B a lot, there is really no reliable was to knock you out of it (not for Olimar anyway). A particularly good time though is if you ever see the Olimar in the air, even if they have only short hopped.
TrueRedemption
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 278
You've got to make Olimar miss, thats the place to start.
In a theoretical argument on paper, Olimar's range and move set allows him to beat all of MK's methods of approach, period.
Fortunately however, no one plays this game on paper
NC Echo offered neutral B, which is definitely the most difficult approach to deal with. What makes it so difficult to deal with? The limited options and precise windows of opportunity Olimar has to use in order to deal with it. So consider your move set, what your good at, what Olimar is bad at, and what Shrink is bad at. Your best options are obviously the ones that MK is good at but Olimar is bad at dealing with, layered even further by what parts of MK your good at and what parts of Olimar Shrink hasn't quite developed all the way. Olimar has limited options to deal with opponents coming in diagonally for instance, UpB. Does Shrink make good use of UpB, even in quick situations where you jumped from just outside his range, floated over the treacherous FSmash/grab potential hit boxes, then came in at 45 degrees with an attack in his face? Maybe you'll catch him flustered, or not thinking to immediately go to the UpB the moment you commit to that diagonal approach? Thats the kind of stuff that figuring out match ups comes down to, on paper creating difficult situations for your opponent, opportunities for him to make a mistake that allows you take advantage of the mistake.
No one is perfect or any where near it, same is true in brawl. Paper arguments only help you develop before and after a match, but all of it means nothing if you can't make use of it. MK isn't a character who makes his living by knowing the exact right counter to every possible situation, hes quick, he can improvise very well. You don't need to figure out specific approaches that you can practice and practice in hopes of perfecting. To approach better, and overall play better but most importantly in approach, you need to become familiar enough with MK and comfortable enough playing him that your no longer thinking about what buttons to press or worrying about timing and instead get creative, what can you do to force a mistake? Approach in ways that look deceptively open, encouraging an attack that maybe your opponent thinks is open, but you have the control and knowledge of MK that your sure you'll be fine, either with a roll or dodge or even because you just are spaced correctly outside of that moves range. You'll need to know if you roll towards if your going to have enough time to attack, or dodge again before you'll get hit, you'll need to know if you shield an attack whether you'll need to take 2 steps and then DSmash or can hit from where you are. This "supreme knowledge" of any character however is again, perfection, we've crept back a little too close, but hopefully see my point. If you know the game better than your opponent, and you can make use of it, you'll win any match up your familiar with.
So, back to reality with a simple example to take paper back to controller again. You can't hit Olimar before he hits you unless you force a miss, we've established this. The ways to make an opponent miss are not limited to the 6 or so simple approaches anyone could write down, no different here or on the MK forum. What does your opponent do when you start to dash at them, and then SH out of range as if to FAir, but instead, before your too far and can be hit, you DI back and land safely out of range again? Sure you didn't land a hit, but was the Olimar forced to guess an UpB to protect himself? Run in and take advantage of it. Or what if you actually just ran away from Olimar for a solid 25 seconds, with your jumps rolls gliding and dash speed this isn't really that hard a task. Is the Olimar so frustrated now though that they are trying far less safe tactics, desperate to hit you and stop the game of chase? Can you punish those attacks? Don't take this too literally, I'm not going to sit through shrink's videos if they are all 10 minutes because you run away for half of them, not to mention you probably will have trouble finding people willing to play against you. But do take the spectrum of this paragraph seriously, getting creative isn't just randomly mixing in a dash -> USmash to your normal routine of dash -> attack and dash -> grab routine.
Approaching has a distinct advantage, it pressures the opponent into making a correct action to deal with it. It also has a distinct disadvantage, the more your opponent sees a particular approach, the better they become at making a correct choice to it. Good approaches force difficult decisions that require great reaction time or prediction of which way you'll go in order to make the correct choice. If you fall into habits, good approaches become bad approaches because your opponent knows both what to do, and which move your going to try most the time. Doesn't matter if that move is an attack, a dodge, a jump, whatever, if your opponent knows whats coming how could they lose? So make use of all the options and do too many different things for your opponent to ever know whats coming.
-True
In a theoretical argument on paper, Olimar's range and move set allows him to beat all of MK's methods of approach, period.
Fortunately however, no one plays this game on paper
NC Echo offered neutral B, which is definitely the most difficult approach to deal with. What makes it so difficult to deal with? The limited options and precise windows of opportunity Olimar has to use in order to deal with it. So consider your move set, what your good at, what Olimar is bad at, and what Shrink is bad at. Your best options are obviously the ones that MK is good at but Olimar is bad at dealing with, layered even further by what parts of MK your good at and what parts of Olimar Shrink hasn't quite developed all the way. Olimar has limited options to deal with opponents coming in diagonally for instance, UpB. Does Shrink make good use of UpB, even in quick situations where you jumped from just outside his range, floated over the treacherous FSmash/grab potential hit boxes, then came in at 45 degrees with an attack in his face? Maybe you'll catch him flustered, or not thinking to immediately go to the UpB the moment you commit to that diagonal approach? Thats the kind of stuff that figuring out match ups comes down to, on paper creating difficult situations for your opponent, opportunities for him to make a mistake that allows you take advantage of the mistake.
No one is perfect or any where near it, same is true in brawl. Paper arguments only help you develop before and after a match, but all of it means nothing if you can't make use of it. MK isn't a character who makes his living by knowing the exact right counter to every possible situation, hes quick, he can improvise very well. You don't need to figure out specific approaches that you can practice and practice in hopes of perfecting. To approach better, and overall play better but most importantly in approach, you need to become familiar enough with MK and comfortable enough playing him that your no longer thinking about what buttons to press or worrying about timing and instead get creative, what can you do to force a mistake? Approach in ways that look deceptively open, encouraging an attack that maybe your opponent thinks is open, but you have the control and knowledge of MK that your sure you'll be fine, either with a roll or dodge or even because you just are spaced correctly outside of that moves range. You'll need to know if you roll towards if your going to have enough time to attack, or dodge again before you'll get hit, you'll need to know if you shield an attack whether you'll need to take 2 steps and then DSmash or can hit from where you are. This "supreme knowledge" of any character however is again, perfection, we've crept back a little too close, but hopefully see my point. If you know the game better than your opponent, and you can make use of it, you'll win any match up your familiar with.
So, back to reality with a simple example to take paper back to controller again. You can't hit Olimar before he hits you unless you force a miss, we've established this. The ways to make an opponent miss are not limited to the 6 or so simple approaches anyone could write down, no different here or on the MK forum. What does your opponent do when you start to dash at them, and then SH out of range as if to FAir, but instead, before your too far and can be hit, you DI back and land safely out of range again? Sure you didn't land a hit, but was the Olimar forced to guess an UpB to protect himself? Run in and take advantage of it. Or what if you actually just ran away from Olimar for a solid 25 seconds, with your jumps rolls gliding and dash speed this isn't really that hard a task. Is the Olimar so frustrated now though that they are trying far less safe tactics, desperate to hit you and stop the game of chase? Can you punish those attacks? Don't take this too literally, I'm not going to sit through shrink's videos if they are all 10 minutes because you run away for half of them, not to mention you probably will have trouble finding people willing to play against you. But do take the spectrum of this paragraph seriously, getting creative isn't just randomly mixing in a dash -> USmash to your normal routine of dash -> attack and dash -> grab routine.
Approaching has a distinct advantage, it pressures the opponent into making a correct action to deal with it. It also has a distinct disadvantage, the more your opponent sees a particular approach, the better they become at making a correct choice to it. Good approaches force difficult decisions that require great reaction time or prediction of which way you'll go in order to make the correct choice. If you fall into habits, good approaches become bad approaches because your opponent knows both what to do, and which move your going to try most the time. Doesn't matter if that move is an attack, a dodge, a jump, whatever, if your opponent knows whats coming how could they lose? So make use of all the options and do too many different things for your opponent to ever know whats coming.
-True
FmAiGkGeO
Smash Cadet
That's way too much text for what needed to be said.
I would say just wait for the 8:00 (6:00) minute stock timer I would assume is on, run around the stage. Then, here's the golden part, beat him in super sudden death. If you can just shield some of the attacks and get a quick smash in, I don't see how it couldn't work!
I would say just wait for the 8:00 (6:00) minute stock timer I would assume is on, run around the stage. Then, here's the golden part, beat him in super sudden death. If you can just shield some of the attacks and get a quick smash in, I don't see how it couldn't work!
TrueRedemption
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2007
- Messages
- 278
0,o
*blink*
0,o
-True
*blink*
0,o
-True
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
tell me when u get there
...R1ngo
Smash Journeyman
thank you so much guys, i've been workin on changing things up and have even started beating shrink's olimar, i appreciate all the work u put into ur reply tru!!
R1ngo
Smash Journeyman
Thats why its so great!
shrinkray21
Smash Ace
I love the Sig!! and yes, R1ngo getting better does help me in the endit's funny how helping R1ngo will symbiotically improve his friend's overall gameplay.