Help with Forward Air-1

[HenryXLII]

I am used to much slower characters, but really want to stick with Joker since I am a really big Persona fan, so I have to relearn certain aspects of the game. There is a particular bad habbit that is stopping me from learning the character fully. On most of the characters I play, the short hop shortcut does wonders for getting my attacks out as fast as possible, and I have come to rely on it. But with Joker, doing short hop forward air with only one hit seems to be a really important part of his kit, and I am struggling to pull it off consistently.

There are two issues I am having. One is just performing a regular short hop during battle, when I am focusing I feel like I don't have the mental dexterity to lightly tap the jump button, especially when I need to very quickly hit the A button just a few frames after. Does anyone have any advice on building muscle memory with this?

The second issue is that Forward Air is a fantastic move, but its not super strong for approach. I could be wrong since I hardly get to pull off forward air, but it seems like NAir and DAir are much safer approach options. So when is the best time to use it after I actually learn how to do it consistently? I am really struggling at kill percents because I am missing this option.

 

[leafgreen386]

Does anyone have any advice on building muscle memory with this?

Try just grazing it. Flick the edge of the button and slide your thumb off. After enough practice, it should be second nature.

I could be wrong since I hardly get to pull off forward air, but it seems like NAir and DAir are much safer approach options

Well, that's because they are. Fair is a bit of a cheeky move to try to land raw, but can be made more or less safe by spacing it. It's got a lot of lag, though, so even if you're out of the opponent's shieldgrab range, you may still get hit afterward.

 

[Uninstall]

I definitely think you should check out Izaw's Art of Smash series, and especially spend some time with his training video, which is in that playlist. He also has a specific guide for Joker, which goes over his entire moveset and a few combos.

Something to note about Joker is that all of his aerials are safe against most characters if you land with them (with good spacing, of course,) but landing with aerials out of short hop takes some timing practice. I also wouldn't land with Fair on shield against anyone with a faster, long shieldgrab like Luigi or good horizontal OoS options like the FE swordies.

 

[The_Marth_Madness]

When shorthopping think about letting go of the button as fast as possible instead of thinking about pressing it quickly.

 

[haxfactory]

I'd say the best way to do it is just to sit around and do it for a while.

If you're getting full hops when you mean to short hop it's more so that you clench the controller when things get tense.

There is no quick and easy way to get over that. You just basically have to build the muscle memory so it doesn't happen even under stress.

As for the fair 1. Short hop and fair at the peak of the short hop and immediately fast fall.

Pretty much the moment you see the fair animation starts you should be starting to fast fall.

The much harder thing is consistently doing fair 1 into fair 1, which I would argue is much more important than just fair 1 on it's own.

And for those that struggle with that, the key is to understand that the opponent is in hitstun a lot longer than you think they are.

When you put too much pressure on trying to reach them with the second fair in time, you typically end up inputting a rising fair and get both hits.

Go into training mode and do short hop fast fall nairs until you can do 30 in a row without making a mistake.

Then practice doing it with a bit of directional movement added in.

Because if you only ever practice it stationary you'll probably fail to ever hit it in a real set.

 

[JeremiahJUX]

I'm working on Fair 1 as an approach tool too since it combos into a ton of other great options for kill confirms. However, I would recommend trying the 2-button jump for your short hops and see if you like it. Since the 2.0 update, you can press 2 jump buttons to input a short hop automatically and I've remapped my L trigger as a jump button since I don't use it. This helps with falling aerials since the shortcut you mentioned only inputs rising aerials.

 

[haxfactory]

I'm working on Fair 1 as an approach tool too since it combos into a ton of other great options for kill confirms. However, I would recommend trying the 2-button jump for your short hops and see if you like it. Since the 2.0 update, you can press 2 jump buttons to input a short hop automatically and I've remapped my L trigger as a jump button since I don't use it. This helps with falling aerials since the shortcut you mentioned only inputs rising aerials.

The primary reason why I don't like this. Is that it is harder for your brain to synchronize inputs between two different hands. So while it might break a lot of muscle memory if you want to use the macro, I'd suggest using a shoulder button/trigger on the right side over one on the left side.

Also if it's a GameCube controller, I don't personally recommend it at all unless it's modded to remove the spring. The resistance of the spring could impact the timing of the inputs.

Frankly, I don't like the idea of relying on macros personally, relying on them could negatively impact your play in other Smash games and I feel like it potentially could have negative affects in Ultimate too, but I can't think of any obvious examples.

I'd honestly turn those macros off if I could as they tend to get in my way more than they help. Getting short hop aerials when I want to full hop sucks. I play claw so I already had no problem getting my aerials to come out at the right time. I'm much more likely to get a buffered short hop aerial from the macro now by accident than getting a full hop when I meant to short hop. But that is just my opinion.

The only thing I'd absolutely suggest about doing that is getting the macro onto one hand and reducing issues with dexterity and things that could impact the timing. As obviously missing to input the macro correctly could mess you up worse than mistiming a short hop in the first place.

 

[nshoes]

The primary reason why I don't like this. Is that it is harder for your brain to synchronize inputs between two different hands. So while it might break a lot of muscle memory if you want to use the macro, I'd suggest using a shoulder button/trigger on the right side over one on the left side.

Also if it's a GameCube controller, I don't personally recommend it at all unless it's modded to remove the spring. The resistance of the spring could impact the timing of the inputs.

Frankly, I don't like the idea of relying on macros personally, relying on them could negatively impact your play in other Smash games and I feel like it potentially could have negative affects in Ultimate too, but I can't think of any obvious examples.

I'd honestly turn those macros off if I could as they tend to get in my way more than they help. Getting short hop aerials when I want to full hop sucks. I play claw so I already had no problem getting my aerials to come out at the right time. I'm much more likely to get a buffered short hop aerial from the macro now by accident than getting a full hop when I meant to short hop. But that is just my opinion.

The only thing I'd absolutely suggest about doing that is getting the macro onto one hand and reducing issues with dexterity and things that could impact the timing. As obviously missing to input the macro correctly could mess you up worse than mistiming a short hop in the first place.

Two things. One, I don't think relying macros have any downsides in Ultimate, but it definitely does effect playing other Smash titles. Two, I use a Pro controller and macro short hops with X + Y; it is insanely easy and consistent. Since I didn't grow up playing Smash games it's really hard for me to short hop, and if the game provides me a shortcut that has no real world side effects for me, then I'm gonna use it!

+1 on the two hands point, it would feel very weird to time that properly. The time put into that should be put into just learning how to short hop if using a GC controller.

 

[KenanTheFab]

On the topic of macros, I've found that pressing X and the right trigger (which i have bound to jump) then quickly moving my thumb back to the c-stick to perform a fair as push down on the control stick to fast fall causes just enough delay between press X + ZR and fair that I consistently hit fair 1

Try it if you are having issues!