Help wanted: F-air/b-air sweetspot

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm enjoying the newly improved Zelda. She has lots of moves that work out well; n-air, all of her tilts, all of her ground smashes, u-air, and so on.

However, I have one problem: I can't get her b-air/f-air sweetspot down. I occasionally do it right; once every so often. But for the most part, all my b/f-airs when I play online are weak hits for about 4% damage.

What I'm wondering is this: Is there anything specific I can do to get the sweetspot down? Something more specific than "just keep practicing"; I've been trying it for hours and not able to consistently do this on wifi play. Or even offline play for that matter, but I live in such a small area that online play is honestly my only hope for multiplayer.

Any help would be really appreciated...

 

[rampant_apart]

You know the spark is a good graphical representation to go by, both in duration and placement. At least it works for me.

 

[blink777]

Somebody (I believe it was Ryoko) made a nice little diagram showing the sweetspot for the Lightning Kicks, along with an in-depth explanation. After a quick browse, I couldn't remember where this was posted, so if you're interested, get looking.

But honestly, every other thread in this subforum has discussed Zelda's sweetspots at some point. The Zelda Information Thread is always a good place to look: there's plenty of discussion on her Fair and Bair sweetspots in the last few pages.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

The best advice I can give from experience is to avoid using them as an approach strategy for this game. Sourspotting a Fair/Bair is asking to be punished, and it's not like Zelda doesn't have other good options in Brawl (This wasn't a choice in Melee. She pretty much had no other approach strategy.)

I use them to punish a lousy recovery attempt. And as mind games. But that's about it.

 

[Ztarfish]

Yeah, Fairs and Bairs aren't really an integral part of her moveset anymore, so it's not critical you get it down. It is however awesome when you sweetspot it at exactly the right time and you're like OMGWTFBBQ. So the best advice I can give you is (I know you didn't want this) but keep practicing. You'll come to a point where you can feel the sweetspot. Like you'll totally be able to tell in the split second before it hits whether you sweetspotted it or not.

But again, Ledger Damayn is right, lightning kicks are more of a surprise attack this time around.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Yeah, I felt the same way. I've been amongst those howling at Zelda match vids, going "Oh for (censored)... she has more usable moves than f-air/b-air this time around! Use them!"; it's just that said move was my only sore spot so far.

The bit about the spark is helping, though. Thanks!

 

[Leram]

don't worry about landing the kicks on wifi, as it's most likely not going to happen (due to input lag, you'l be aiming the kick for where you THINK the opponent will be in the next half second, which isn't a good idea).

In offline, i find that getting the middle of the spark on the edge of the enemy sweetspots every time.

 

[bladeofapollo]

It doesn't seem to be as far out as it used to be. My friends and I called it "The Toe" in Melee, but it actually seems to be the heel this time; it might even be her ankle.

To get a personal feel for it, just go to Training Mode to find it. Then just develop the spacing required to hit it after that.

But yea, try hitting a little further in than in Melee.

 

[Syde7]

Try to hit it so that the hem of her dress is barely touching/just in front of the opponent. That's what's been working for me. It takes a bit of practice to get the timing down, and then work on spacing.

 

[Damax]

its simple, actually what make you miss is probably a too fast execution of the kick, the kick comes out real fast. To easily tipper only spacing and timing matters. YOU MUST NOT execute de move until you are sure the target is on the sweetspot (can be seen as a circle when doing the move in the air)

the lightning kick are instant, unlike in melee where you could pull it off a bit before and still sweet spot if you did hit with the good part of the move. this time, its seems easier to sweetspot, as long as the move hits on the very first frame(s)

 

[Soluble Toast]

I think it's all about going down to your opponent in Brawl. Height is a big issue this time. I've found the sweetspot for most opponents is typically JUST away from the ground.

The timing I don't think many people have a problem with. You have to think of when a realistic time for a great kick would be.

 

[Drake3]

When I first got the game I had to pause it several times when she does the kick to actually get the position of the sweetspot into my head. For me it helped alot.

 

[Tsuteto]

Meh, to me it's a touch closer to her body from the farthest and shortest distances of the kick. I just like envisioning a stilletto heel completely crushing into a person's face before it sends them flying across the map.

 

[rageagainst]

I wouldn't go so far out and call the kicks "surprise not integral moves," sure unlike in melee, you don't have to know the kicks to be a fairly effective zelda, but its all about potential, to be the potential best at your character you must utilize all options, and from that standpoint the kicks are a very integral part of her moveset because they kill at 67% (if you didn't deteriorate your kick by using it before the kill) and above.


As approaches, yeah, they aren't that good since the sweetspot is so small, that even if you are an ace at nailing the kicks, your other options are much less risky. BUT once you get inside, the theoretical best zelda player in the world predicts the enemy's movements and uses the kick as the kill move. If learned well enough, it is almost like a sweetspotted fsmash on someone tall, which ill explain soon.


to get better at zelda, you'll need to learn the kick, I'm trying to learn it by placing mid-sized characters, short hopping and nailing the kick, trying to make it almost like an fsmash. IF your just starting, do it with someone like Dedede. Start out doing kicks out of the air as arial moves since they are generally easier to perform than the short hopped kick. Now try the shorthopped kick. After that, make dedede do other things such as jump, walk, attack, and the hardest, run. After you did all this move to midsized, and then finally to small (note: you can't do shorthopped kicks on small chars like an fsmash, you have to do the short hop and hit them on the way down.)

 

[rampant_apart]

Rageagainst makes a very good point. Practicing sweetspots against larger targets and working your way down to smaller targets helped me a bunch.

Heck, if you really want to start off easy, find some of the larger enemies in Subspace Emissary or a Giant version of someone in Classic Mode. There's a reason my Zelda is my "boss-killer" in SSE.

 

[J-mar]

I'm still trying this out so forgive me if I'm wrong:

If you used Zelda in Melee you can see that when she kicks she's almost completely horizontal and therefore her hitbox for the sweetspot was her foot on a straight plane. Well in Brawl she kicks about the same but the sweetspot is a bit above her foot which in my opnion is why it seems a bit harder to hit with. Also, in Melee you could use your body to push people away and into the sweetspot with the foot, I think it's harder to do that in brawl.

 

[Tsuteto]

Slightly above? I have a better chance hitting slightly below, I swear it XD

One of the things that, for whatever reason, make the kick easier for me is to go towards the enemy in the air, and then move back a bit and then kick, seeing as they generally approach you. Generally. If they're standing still, you may not want to go back as much as stop your forward momentum from messing up the kick.

I just wish the kick pushed opponents back further when they shield the kick....

 

[Isaku]

Stand about a body width away from a training mode target (or sandbag waiting for an online game) and shorthop into a f/bair. If you watch this enough you can see about where the spot for a sweetspot is and get it stuck in your head. Once you get a feel for it knock them in the air. Practice it every chance you get and it will be notime till you start landing kicks. http://blip.tv/file/751480

 

[K Balls]

forward air and back air sweetspot are really hard to put off on someone, even for the best Zelda players.

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

I think it's more like the edge of the dress this time in Brawl, and not the foot.

 

[blueriku]

actually from my experience the sweetspot for me seems to be around her entire foot however even though this might sound easy to land their's a catch, first off f-air and b-air hit boxes now includes a very small space beyond her dress( meaning you can still hit with the tip of the dress barely touching your opponent ).
what this means is that the sweet spot is not at the tip of the foot like it was in melee ( meaning as long as you hit with the tip of her f-air/b-air it sweetspots. when you hit with her L-kick her foot have to connect with your opponent your else it will sourspot. now the second catch to it is timing, it seems that the sweetspot only last for about a frame or two. so if you hit with her L-kick it has to be in the right timing to sweetspot. now under these conditions you would not think it would be hard to land, but the reason it is imo is because of the floatyness of all the characters, plus on top of that its kind hard to L-kick really low to the ground because of how light the gravity is.

 

[RedMage8BT]

It seems to be the heel of the foot... at least for me.

 

[hario.hige]

Sandbag is easy. Players are not. Even when you think you have it, you don't. It's a surprise for both players when I connect.