help w/ fox.....

[Byped]

my marth is probably still considered a newb. ive got some respectable mind games but i just keep getting pwned by fox. ANY FOX . its kinda stupid. all it takes is up throw and u-air(x3) and i die. this has become soo obvious that complete newbs have seen this strategy and pulled it off on the first try....


how do i get past this?


(i can do most of the advanced stuff but only use what i need)






*can marth use invincibility frames, from grabbing the edge of a stage, to waveland and do a f-smash?

 

[balladechina212]

(i can do most of the advanced stuff but only use what i need)

Your version of 'what I need' is not enough. I've seen you play and you can do the advanced techniques, but you sometimes choose "newb" tactics in their place (such as constant rolling, instead of wavedashing, which you are fully capable of).

You have to play conservative against a Fox. In fact, most of the times Marths should play conservative. L-cancel all your aerials and try to chain fairs (double SH or not). The best way to kill a space animal, however, is too chain grab and lead to a tipper. After they reach the percentage that you can't chain grab them anymore, either utilt into a tipper, or position yourself for a tipper. Also, some Foxes (KrazyKnux) like to DI the up-throw at mid percentages, setting themselves up for a tipper.

The advice above is a combination of my experience and Andy's.

 

[ArcNatural]

And practice DIing the upthrow from fox up and smash DIing to avoid getting wrecked from upthrow to upair. Once you can do this the matchup is a lot more even.

 

[WhiteOblv]

DI better bud, if they hit you with uairx3 all the time ur not DIing good or at all. Jus try oyur hardest to watch out for uthrow to ****.

 

[KrazyKnux]

Also, some Foxes (KrazyKnux) like to DI the up-throw at mid percentages, setting themselves up for a tipper.

If the foxes don't DI the upthrow at mid percentages, then just take a small step and fsmash for the same result. The fox DIing doesn't make a huge difference because of this (DIing does make it slightly easier though).

Anyway, like they said you should try DIing. Nothing is easier than uaring someone on an upthrow who didn't DI. And DIing the uairs will help prevent another uair or death. You should know when it's coming (drill shine -> wavedash -> grab -> uair ownage) so prepare yourself.

Like balla said, marth has just as good as a grab game as fox does when he's up against foxes. You can chain grab them and then tipper if they DI at mid percentages (or if they don't DI: chain grab them until they reach mid percentages, take a small step, and fsmash).

If you want to pull off the grabs against an aggressive fox (or falco for that matter), then replace any unnecessary rolls you use with wavedashes and dashdance more. This helps you space yourself well until you can find an opening.

 

[flaco]

Well is like mew2king said a fox player technical player that tries hard to take down a marth it will bit a bit harder but the version you said like up throw and the air attack is the gay way of playing fox so I reccomend that you learn to di better thats your bet also dont try to grab a fox when he drills you or try chain grabbing becuase a good fox will shine you.

 

[Lesheik]

Use Marth's long-range attacks as an advantage over fox.

 

[Nightblade]

Use Marth's long-range attacks as an advantage over fox.

Isn't that Marth's strategy against everyone? >_>"

Also, it isn't always that easy. Here's the thing, a lot of players, not only Marth players but in general use the same strategy stock after stock after stock. A lot of players will not use certain moves because the "pros" think they suck.

People say Marth's Forward+B sucks outside of recovery, but it comes out fairly quick (at least the first two strikes) and your opponent won't see it coming. It throws them a curveball they haven't seen, and against most players due to them being human, will hesitate giving you a chance to take control of the stock/point.

Also, against a good Fox I find the Counter works well when timed well (you can't hit it early at all). Because of their fast-falling nature, you get them off you and give you an opportunity to start your own combo.

The Dolphin Slash has always been a very situational tool in my opinion. Use at your peril, and only if they are REALLY close. Shield a smash and Up+B right out is an average strategy (but better against slower smashes) and if you use it more than once or twice, they'll get the hang of it and massively punish you with its lag.

 

[Virgilijus]

Properly spaced fairs can wreck havoc on foxes; they keep him at your preferred distance while keeping him far enough away and at low percentages can set up for a grab (which is followed up by a chain grab, stage permitting). If the Fox is on a low platform directly above you, utilt (but don't make it obvious so he can dodge). If you have the timing right you can hit him again before he lands down and repeat. If the Fox is a little slow it may take him two or three blows until he DI's out of it, but that's good enough.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Isn't that Marth's strategy against everyone? >_>"

Also, it isn't always that easy. Here's the thing, a lot of players, not only Marth players but in general use the same strategy stock after stock after stock. A lot of players will not use certain moves because the "pros" think they suck.

People say Marth's Forward+B sucks outside of recovery, but it comes out fairly quick (at least the first two strikes) and your opponent won't see it coming. It throws them a curveball they haven't seen, and against most players due to them being human, will hesitate giving you a chance to take control of the stock/point.

Actually I've found the side B extemely useful for killing fast fallers. If they get hit by either the first or second hit they will be set up for the third. If spaced at the tip they can't DI out of it. It doesn't work at too high of a percent (100 and up), but it will surely knock them off the stage and then you can make use of Marth's amazing edgeguarding.

 

[Tyson651]

dont mind fox's lasers, its just to make u mad and approach him blindly, take ur time and patience, always keep moving, never sit in ur shield too long, cause nair -> waveshine -> grab set up ***** all the time, try to keep spacings, and remember, nair ***** fox/falco.