Help vs Marth?

[Inverity]

What are some general guidelines I should follow when trying to combat Marth's range? I'm taking a more aggressive approach to the match up and I'm very frequently punished for approaching with an F-smash from the opposing Marth player. However, I'm also having a hard time punishing Marth's for F-Smashing on some occasions. I'll try to Nair or Bair them when I see they'll be vulnerable but sometimes I'll just get grabbed out of shield after my shine because I'm not very good at applying shield pressure.

What should I be focused on the most here? Should I continue my aggro method of approaching the match up and work on my shield pressure? Or should I change the way I'm combating Marth entirely, play more passively and get better at reading his approaches and punishing. Also, what are some conceptual ideas that Fox should follow when facing Marth? (General match up tips).

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Dash dance is your best friend when baiting out Fsmash happy marths. Punish it with a grab into upthrow upair. Trying to penetrate marth's zone with SHFFLs and shield pressure is honestly not the best way to fight marth. Forget about that and try to use fox's speed to out-maneuver and PUNISH marth for every mistake he makes. Keep your distance, laser, and PUNISH hard especially with grabs. Also, never get grabbed in this match up. If youre not amazing at shield pressure, which a lot of people arent, and you still insist on attacking marths shield then I would use shine grabs on him. Nair shine grab. Dair shine grab etc.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Dash dance grab up throw up air.

 

[dRevan64]

what hypnotoad said
also he does stuff that's harder to grab punish running waveshine is amazing and since you keep momentum from the run it's easy to confirm that into a grab or an upsmash or a whatever you feel like doing to him, since you're fox and that's 'anything'

 

[Pichu Guru]

Dash dance Uthrow Uair is a good combo.

 

[Sizzle]

When both of you are dash dancing, think about all the situations you want to run in and nair, and try something else instead. The hardest thing for me to learn about playing against Marth was that all my nair approaches were really obvious, but I never realized it. So instead of running in and nairing, try to just run up grab, running shine, run up shield, etc. Mix those other ones in see how they react.

 

[Oskurito]

You can also bait his f-smash with dash dancing from distance then shield->wavedash->grab or aerial (i like dair/nair shine to grab just to rack up more damage) but you'll have to be really quick so you grab him before he can retaliate.

 

[SAUS]

Basically, dash dance. Dash dancing is broken in this game.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Dair shine and grab > crouch

You can do all of them out of run or dash

Marth sucks when he's above people and those three moves set that up

Marth has weak OOS options

So pressure and grab him a lot