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Help my Marth please! (Critique)

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA

UMBC Super Smasher

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
1,077
Location
University of Maryland Baltimore County
I could tell you were experimenting a lot in these videos, especially with the dair. If you were playing seriously in a tournament, just forget all those dairs and focus on using the fsmash for edgeguarding.

Your marth looks ok. Technically you are where you need to be with marth. All I can say is keep playing and experimenting.

You might find it easier to play the ice climbers if you eliminate one of them. I saw a couple opportunities where you let the cpu ic (nana?) run right back. Kill the 2nd IC and you cripple your opponent.
 

3GOD

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
745
Location
Athens, GA
I could tell you were experimenting a lot in these videos, especially with the dair. If you were playing seriously in a tournament, just forget all those dairs and focus on using the fsmash for edgeguarding.

Your marth looks ok. Technically you are where you need to be with marth. All I can say is keep playing and experimenting.

You might find it easier to play the ice climbers if you eliminate one of them. I saw a couple opportunities where you let the cpu ic (nana?) run right back. Kill the 2nd IC and you cripple your opponent.
Yeah these were friendlies, so I was playing around a good bit with the dair especially...it actually cost me a few stock throughout the night, but I think it's a good thing to try different tactics from time to time.

Thanks for commenting! :)
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
Having style is more important than winning. Spike kills are worth like 10 style points.

Man, that white Marth sure is good.

I'd say you should play more aggressively. Marth can put on a lot of pressure and make people screw up.

Oh, and could someone tell me what the heck happened at :51 in the second IC video (#21)? Marth's fsmash hits Nana from behind. There aren't even any hitboxes back there. WTF?
 

bGoss

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
12
It looked like Nana dashed in at the last second and Marth's fsmash has a AoE?
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
You can't really critique these matches the way Shai played. To me it looked like he was trying to beat you without shielding at all. This made it pretty easy for you to just dashdance around a shffl and hit him right when he landed. Judging from the good technical skill Shai has I think he was doing it on purpose. It basically made your Marth get a lot of easy hits in, essentially making you look good. But in reality a lot of those hits could have been shield grabbed, or at the least easily shielded. So it's hard to comment when I'm not sure how well your approach would really work if he just shielded more after shffl's and such.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
You can't really critique these matches the way Shai played. To me it looked like he was trying to beat you without shielding at all. This made it pretty easy for you to just dashdance around a shffl and hit him right when he landed. Judging from the good technical skill Shai has I think he was doing it on purpose. It basically made your Marth get a lot of easy hits in, essentially making you look good. But in reality a lot of those hits could have been shield grabbed, or at the least easily shielded. So it's hard to comment when I'm not sure how well your approach would really work if he just shielded more after shffl's and such.
lol there were quite a few more matches we recorded where I wasn't being as stupid and actually won. I'd probably played about 100 matches by the time these games were recorded and I wasn't being very smart.

Oh, and my ICs are obviously terrible. I haven't been playing them long at all. And I don't know which particular games you were talking about regarding the shield grabbing, but CF can't really shield-grab Marth unless he doesn't space correctly.

Check this thread for some more Marth vs. Falcon
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=99734

Or just look under 3god's youtube profile. There are something like 20 matches up.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
Shield grabbed or at the least shielded, obviously Falcon will shield or roll more than he could grab in this case . Falcon for example can sh nair or upair out of shield when Marth shffl's a fair in, you can also roll or etc. If you watch all your videos on this page in particular basically alot of what he did was dash dance, you shffl'd and aerial (regardless of what character you were) and you would just l-cancel and not react or at least not react in time. It looked like you were essentially l-canceling for no reason, as you just stood there for a second like you would if you didn't l-cancel, especially if you didn't hit him with the aerial. Falcon's best option out of shield is to roll or jump (sh or fj your preference) for the most part since his wavedash isn't that good. But Marth, IC can easily do those, grab, and wavedash out of shield either away or forward.

I watched the videos were you owned him, and the evenly matched ones. You still do the same thing. You hardly ever play passive, even when he is approaching with an aerial. Sometimes he would be in the middle of a nair or a fair and you would just jump right into it or try to dash away and you would get hit lol. Sometimes it is better to just shield, then sh out of your shield with an aerial to counter. Definitely look into sh aerials out of shield, it is a very good tactic for Falcon since his standing grab range is so little. If you noticed 3GOD likes to fj fair to spaced falling fair on top of you. This is usually great for Falcon, since you can dash to shield sh jump out of shield to upair combo before he can get his second fair out. It's the same if he is sh fairing, you can dash to shield (as long as you don't let go of forward while your dashing/running you can shield immediately) slide into range to grab or sh aerial.

I feel bad because I'm commenting the Falcon more than the Marth heh. I just see huge openings coming from the Falcon since you don't really shield anything. So essentially there is a huge defensive block for both of you. He spams aerials regardless of where the Falcon is because the Falcon is either A) going to run or jump into it, or B) dash dance to grab, which doesn't work that often as long as he spaces it far enough away. And you don't take advantage of this, as you don't pressure him by staying inside of his sword range with the shield. As I'm sure you watch videos, watch how Darkrain and Isai often shield straight to aerials, and maybe you will understand where I'm coming from.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
Yeah I don't attack from shield as often as I should because it's a pretty awkward motion for me. I claw and use my right middle finger to shield, index on Y to jump, thumb for A/C-stick. When I do aerials from shield sometimes I accidentally full-jump. When you claw everything is awkward at first, but eventually it feels natural. I'm just not there yet with this particular tactic, but I will be.

Wavedash from shield is awkward too, but I'm practicing wavedashing with my thumb on X and left index on L as well as right index on Y and right middle on R. It's easier to wavedash very fast this way anyway, but I haven't quite mastered the timing for using L. I can do it for Ice Climbers but waveshielding with Marth or CF is a little more difficult.

As for me jumping into his attacks--I honestly didn't notice I was doing it that often. I guess when I'm CF I tend to just go hyper-aggressive and want to throw NAIRs everywhere. Thanks for pointing this out; I'll definitely work on it.
 

tw0 side

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
134
You have a well-rounded Marth in my opinion. Just practice some more combos.
 
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