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Help my Marth? I haven't gotten better in months T.T *More Matches Up*!!

M

Marth/Falco Pro

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
1,211
Location
Anaheim, SoCal
Well, it's been a while since I got critique'd and barely anyone critique'd me so I wanna have another try. I havent been getting better for months and I could really use some help! Here are several matches of me playing a friend. All of them are Marth dittos, sorry xD
*note: please dont pay attention to the effeminate pre-pubescent voice of mine...
Match 1:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TimfbBK6_ls

Match 2:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bkeBwBSUbM0

Match 3:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KMLqILQD2rQ

Match 4:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=20fJIEnUHw8

Match 5:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aWRDjyK2bpc
 
S

Salaad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
936
Location
Irvine, CA
I don't know, your good (Better than me xD). I think I saw too many mistakes where you could've easily 3-4 stocked him. Overall In my opinion, I liked it. (and your voice =p)
 
T

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
Getting there.

Lol...I had to give you help after hearing you talk about your voice.

I only watched the first one, unless you did exceedingly well in another or played with a completely different style I think that will help you enough by pointing out the obvious things you need to work on that are probably present in the other videos. But I will watch another if you need

Why did you jump and f-air at the begining after the f-throw?..he was in perfect f-smash range. Then instead of f-smashing him on the ledge..you dash attacked. If the green marth was a better edgeguarder, that would have been your stock.

at 0.17..your spacing was bad off so you missed your edgeguard attempt. The lightsheild edgeguard doesn't work in marth dittos...And it almost got you killed. You should have simply edgeguarded with f-smash or leaped out and b-aired.

Nice combo from .41 to .48 but instead of f-smashing after the f-throw which could have been easily done, you tried jumping and f-airing again..I seen thats a bad habit of yours.\

at 1.21, your edgeguarding was sloppy and it let him back. The counter wasn't too bright but the falling d-air was extremely stupid and it brought him back.

Your edgeguarding and follow up attacks need serious work. You also didn't use any set combos or many up-throw setups. At 0%, marth can f-throw another marth twice then up-throw to set up for combos..And the way the other marth di-ed, you probably could have f-throwed him many times due to him not knowing how to di it. Your spacing was decent at some points then very bad at others, keep praciticing. Very sloppy gameplay but you will get better.
 
balladechina212

balladechina212

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
680
Location
Chicago, IL
F-throw --> fair will NOT work on people who know how to DI. Even if you could do it, like bluedeath said, you would do better to fsmash.

You're using the lightshield edgehog too much. Whip it out once in a while to be sexy, but don't abuse it.

Too much running around and swatting fairs (not properly spaced either), you WILL get shield grabbed.

You don't usually hear people say this to Marth players, but USE FSMASH MORE! A lot of the combos that you did could have ended in a fsmash, but you instead kept fairing or went for a Ken combo.
 
S

stek55

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
29
Im not exactely a pro marth (far from it :)) but here are a couple things i noticed...

Whats with the f-throw > f-air? F-throws in marth dittos are MADE to be followed up by an easy f-smash or grab.
You obviously have real nice tech skill so thats not a problem and you clearly had no trouble beating that other marth. But probably my biggest critque is in your approach and edge guarding. It seemed like every time you got near the kid it was dashdance, wavedash a few times, and f-air. Mix it up... run in with a grab (you didn't really grab that much at all, especially for a marth ditto). You have the tough stuff pretty much down (l-cancel, chaining f-airs was all really good)... just work on mindgames, keep your opponent guessing. You dont have to go for the F-air > ken combo every time. And with your edgegaurding... dont light sheild edgehog in marth dittos. Im pretty sure that doesn't work. Also you edge guarded mainly with the d-tilt. When different options, like an easy f-smash or neutral b for example, would have been better. Your opponent SDed a LOT but against higher level players, you would have paid more for those edgegaurding mistakes. It's clear you can get people off the stage really well... now keep them there.

In terms of improvement... your marth is really good overall. Definatly way better than mine. You have the tech skill as shown by some pretty nice combos. Just work on things like spacing, edgegaurding, and (most importantly) MINDGAMES! Oh and by the way... if this is the only kid your playing against, you need some stiffer competition to get better ;)
 
balladechina212

balladechina212

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
680
Location
Chicago, IL
I'm nearly 91% sure that I heard Kizzu state that it DOES work in dittos.

I'm just kidding, but if you say it doesn't work, how does it not work? Do you fall over or something? Or does your opponent have to do something special to mess you up.

Or maybe we do the edgehog differently. I roll towards the edge and during the roll, I press Z and hold the control stick away from the edge. This way, I do not grab or roll after I have my shield up by the ledge.
 
M

Marth/Falco Pro

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
1,211
Location
Anaheim, SoCal
thanks for the critiques guys! so in a list I need to:

1. mix things up
2. dont go for fthrow > fair
3. fthrow > fsmash more
4. work on edgeguards and mix them up
5. work on mindgames

is this right? Thanks again, and umm, balla and blue death, the light shield does work against Marth but not as well as fast fallers. Marth falls too slowly to grab the ledge befpre the recovering Marth. It mindgames me sometimes cuz I think I'm the one grabbing the ledge but I'm really falling. xD thanks guys, please feel free to point anything else out that I'm doing wrong!
 
ArcNatural

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
2,964
Location
Boston, MA
The light shield hog doesn't work IF THE UPBING MARTH SWEETSPOTS!!!!!!!!!!
If they don't sweetspot it will work. The end.
 
T

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
If the marth doesn't sweetspot when he sees you doing this, hes ********. its not a good tactic at all.

Theres much better things to be doing in marth dittos.
 
T

TierWhore

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
362
Location
Bronx, Ny
Thought I'd just post that one of the things I noticed that your opponent was doing and you were probably doing was diing towards your opponent when they were comboing. You extended your combos a lot more because your opponent wasn't diing correctly. I also see the same lack of fluidity that happens in a lot of marths when they don't play a lot of people, generally because the same movement patterns fake out some1 a lot. Idk how many people you play on a regular basis, but increasing the amount of good people or just other people you play would also help your game a lot. I know it's kinda vague, but i don't have that much time right now, i'll post back later prolly.
 
balladechina212

balladechina212

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
680
Location
Chicago, IL
After some testing, I still think you can do the edgehog if you fastfall onto the edge (like M2K does). If they are absolutely perfect, maybe not, but I'm still willing to use this tactic in Marth dittos.
 
T

thebluedeath1000

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
2,348
Location
N.C, Bladenboro
I say its much better to edgeguard them standardly with d-tilts and f-smashes after ccing their up-b or to simply edgehog them or edgehop to b-air. That method isn't very reliable.
 
S

Shinespiked

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
7
I'm far from a Marth pro, but I definately think your fifth battle was your best because you stuck to simpler edge-guarding tactics and didnt suicide. Also, you might try dash-dancing after a f-throw to try and create more combos. If sushi had shielded then grabbed you he could have stopped some of your combos. I dunno, it's just what works for me.

Great stuff though, you are quite a good Marth player.


Oh and I liked the spikes. Spikes are fun =D
 
M

Marth/Falco Pro

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
1,211
Location
Anaheim, SoCal
Cactuar

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
To answer an earlier question: I should be going to OC3, assuming nothing ridiculous happens to my current plans.
 
M

marth8000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
38
i thought you where very good but maybe you should try doing more smash attacks get them on about 80 or 90% and one well placed smash should take them out with marth. try grab up throw and depending where he DI's smash that way it works well
 
Virgilijus

Virgilijus

Nonnulli Laskowski praestant
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
14,387
Location
Sunny Bromsgrove
Here are a couple of things I saw:

-You can juggle really well, which, though essential to Marth it isn't always the best choice in every circumstance. I saw a couple of times where you SH Double Fair'd them near the edge, then up tilted to send them back towards the center of the stage, full jump Bair'd Fair'd, then Fair'd them again. While that got them up to pretty high damage, getting them off the edge with Marth's ledge gurading game (especially against Sheik) is almost always more desirable. Sheik's landing lag on her Up B takes up a lot of time. I saw you pull very nice pivot->backwards wavedash edge hogs, so try to sneak them in against Sheik and make her land on the stage. From there you can SH back on and time your Nair right to send her backwards off the edge (have her body be on your back by the second hit) and re edge guard or SH wavedash on, grab her and throw her back off ala M2K.

-I know you even commented on it in one of your matches, but Samus was just crouch canceling all of your poorly spaced Fairs and down smashing you. Work on being able to consistently hitting those with tippers so she can't punish you out of her shield. Also, I know Samus is very hard to edge guard, but when she's bombing back try to disguise your ledge guarding; a lot of times you just constantly crouched showing down tilt the whole time.

But you do have a decent Marth, so keep working on it and you'll keep getting better :)
 
S

Salaad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
936
Location
Irvine, CA
I saw the last match...and it was beautifull (I'm a noob) I just wanted to comment you on that...very nice.
 
knightpraetor

knightpraetor

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
2,321
well i liked your play personally, but i'm not really in the mood to critique..the suicides were kinda sad though...also personally there were a few points where you ledge hogged early when the samus was coming in high...you were switching up (on the ledge) and down (on the edge) positions when in reality i think you'd be better off just staying high and forcing the samus to drop lower

oh one other thing..less SHDFairs..there were a few places where it seemed like you were spamming them..focus more on spacing instead...SHDFairs have their place..mostly to combo with..but when you use them as an opener you always have the risk of throwing off your spacing if you miss..so either don't miss ever..or just use them a little less i would say
 
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