Nitro_Hamster
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2013
- Messages
- 55
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Help my brother and I get better please (video)
- Thread starter Nitro_Hamster
- Start date
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
Two things you should know about Ganondorf: You can use your second jump again after an aerial warlock kick; and if you use your forward special off of the ledge and hold backward toward the ledge you'll grab the ledge. <This is a really nice edge-hog tool for both Ganon and Falcon. Also, with Roy, you can short hop toward the ledge, do a side-special in the opposite direction to turn you around, and grab the ledge. <Also nice for edge-hogging. Other than those things, the only thing I saw lacking was shield grabs (R/L + A). The round where you played as Roy there were a lot of dash attacks that both you and your brother got hit by. A couple of those could have been avoided if you (or your brother) had just shield-grabbed the guy out of his dash attack. Note: this only works if you are actually facing the guy. Both Roy and Olimar have really nice grab ranges, so take advantage of them. Another thing about your Ganondorf: your down throw, 50% of the time, will lead into your up-tilt at fairly low damage depending on where your opponent DIs. If he DIs in front of you, use up-tilt, if he DIs behind you, b-air, u-air, or maybe even a flame-choke. All that being said, grabs are nice. Now I'm sure that there are a lot more people out there who know way more than me, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Marthmario
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,297
Your Roy seems pretty tame in his assault. Watch out for bad spikes. Mmmm I only play Roy so. :/
Just you need to be more aggressive, if you land that first hit, chase him around and make him feel like a tennis ball.
Just you need to be more aggressive, if you land that first hit, chase him around and make him feel like a tennis ball.
Marthmario
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,297
Use Dtilt to start combos too.
Orngeblu
Smash Ace
I'll have a go at this, although this won't be character advice. I'm gonna critique Roy/Olimar/Ganon player as best I can. I just think you choose a lot of unsafe options, like how you would use Dash Attack a lot in general, which is unsafe on shield. (Although it happened to work on your brother anyways, haha) You did it 2-3 times in a row sometimes. One time you were falling back onto the stage with Ganon and you did a Side-B predicting he could jump up and use an aerial attack and you got punished for it.
Chzrm3
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2008
- Messages
- 625
- 3DS FC
- 3926-5442-3703
You're Roy in the first match, right? One thing I'll say is that I don't think you were L-canceling his dair - if you do that, it's gonna speed you up a lot. I think that move has the most endlag of all Roy's aerials.
I could be wrong though - if you were L-canceling it, ignore me! =) But if you're not, it's definitely a good idea to do that, because that simple change will help you be a lot faster. There were a few times where you did a dair and then tried to follow up on your brother, but he got away just in time. If that had been L-cancelled, you'd probably be getting some nice follow-ups.
There's probably something to be said about using dair that heavily as Roy to begin with, but I think it's fine. =) I don't wanna mess with your personal style, or how you play the character. Also I really don't know a lot and am very bad, so maybe dair is Roy's best move!
So if you're gonna use it like that, definitely practice L-canceling it. I have this same issue as Marth sometimes, cause the timing on that dair is a little tricky. But with some practice you'll get it and then you'll be smoooth.
I could be wrong though - if you were L-canceling it, ignore me! =) But if you're not, it's definitely a good idea to do that, because that simple change will help you be a lot faster. There were a few times where you did a dair and then tried to follow up on your brother, but he got away just in time. If that had been L-cancelled, you'd probably be getting some nice follow-ups.
There's probably something to be said about using dair that heavily as Roy to begin with, but I think it's fine. =) I don't wanna mess with your personal style, or how you play the character. Also I really don't know a lot and am very bad, so maybe dair is Roy's best move!
So if you're gonna use it like that, definitely practice L-canceling it. I have this same issue as Marth sometimes, cause the timing on that dair is a little tricky. But with some practice you'll get it and then you'll be smoooth.
Brim
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2010
- Messages
- 819
- NNID
- Bitterbub
When you were playing as Roy (I think it was you anyway) you just needed to do a number of things. First and foremost, know your character's spacing and the range of the attacks your using, I saw you swing blindly a lot in the air where if you had just used a different attack had landed more hits and be just more consistent. Another perfect example is using your Dancing Blade more; you barely touched the move, and hardly used it while trying to come back from the stage, honestly it's a move with a lot of utility.
Also, just a general observation: you barely used your grab while running to your opponent or otherwise. Remember the grab spacing in this game is kind of touchy, but it is an effective tool. And, during your runs you seemed to do nothing but Dash Attack, don't ever forget how punishing that move can be, and don't be afraid to mix it up.
Also, just a general observation: you barely used your grab while running to your opponent or otherwise. Remember the grab spacing in this game is kind of touchy, but it is an effective tool. And, during your runs you seemed to do nothing but Dash Attack, don't ever forget how punishing that move can be, and don't be afraid to mix it up.
PastLink
Smash Journeyman
first and foremost, nice sound strack. really catchy.
and second I'm just gonna give you some olimar advice since i know him better out of the three, first and foremost, you never used your pikmin whistle to order your pikmin, the whole goal of olimar is to manage his minions well and use the right ones for the right times. this isn't to say you can't hit people with pikmin regardless of type, because you can you'll still get the hits in which is important, but you need to really learn which pikmin are good for what situation so you can put as little effort as possible into killing the opponent. Another important thing, while pikmin throw isn't bad, it's not really a move to be used from an extreme distance as it makes your pikmin very vulnerable, plus, only the purple pikmin actually hits the opponent to stop advance, so while you're throwing reds/blues/yellows/whites, they're still getting closer and you're out of an arsenal to use your aerials and smash attacks with (something you should use more often because olimars are SO good) another point about the pikmin throw is that you can use the pikmin whistle to call them back to you early, before they even hit the opponent, and there's a million different ways you can use that.
but, all in all, you played alright, you knew how to follow up well from throws and it succeeded in earning you kills, which is important, and you made good use of his aerial pluck as a fake out (one of my favorite usages). keep practicing and you'll get better, just as all of us do every week, every day, and (for those select few) every hour.
and second I'm just gonna give you some olimar advice since i know him better out of the three, first and foremost, you never used your pikmin whistle to order your pikmin, the whole goal of olimar is to manage his minions well and use the right ones for the right times. this isn't to say you can't hit people with pikmin regardless of type, because you can you'll still get the hits in which is important, but you need to really learn which pikmin are good for what situation so you can put as little effort as possible into killing the opponent. Another important thing, while pikmin throw isn't bad, it's not really a move to be used from an extreme distance as it makes your pikmin very vulnerable, plus, only the purple pikmin actually hits the opponent to stop advance, so while you're throwing reds/blues/yellows/whites, they're still getting closer and you're out of an arsenal to use your aerials and smash attacks with (something you should use more often because olimars are SO good) another point about the pikmin throw is that you can use the pikmin whistle to call them back to you early, before they even hit the opponent, and there's a million different ways you can use that.
but, all in all, you played alright, you knew how to follow up well from throws and it succeeded in earning you kills, which is important, and you made good use of his aerial pluck as a fake out (one of my favorite usages). keep practicing and you'll get better, just as all of us do every week, every day, and (for those select few) every hour.
Thane of Blue Flames
Fire is catching.
TOO
MANY
DASH ATTACKS
Sorry, had to get that out of my systems.
You don't mix up your approaches, you're too predictable and easy to bait, you don't dash-dance yourself and lack a certain degree of patience. Aggression is fine but you don't have quite the spacing, approaches or presence to mind to pull it off consistently.
You're unfamiliar with your characters' recoveries. Aerial Wizard's Foot refreshes Ganon's jump, you would have made it back twice during the match where you just up-B'd after the Foot. Shield more, shield grab more and grab more in general. Also, your edge-hogging game is non-existent. Fix that.
MANY
DASH ATTACKS
Sorry, had to get that out of my systems.
You don't mix up your approaches, you're too predictable and easy to bait, you don't dash-dance yourself and lack a certain degree of patience. Aggression is fine but you don't have quite the spacing, approaches or presence to mind to pull it off consistently.
You're unfamiliar with your characters' recoveries. Aerial Wizard's Foot refreshes Ganon's jump, you would have made it back twice during the match where you just up-B'd after the Foot. Shield more, shield grab more and grab more in general. Also, your edge-hogging game is non-existent. Fix that.
splat
Smash Lord
I can't really help you out because I'm pretty awful at Smash (sorry!), but I can't help but ask: what is the name of that track? Sounds awesome.
HyperrCrow
Emotional Reality
Work on your DI. That's all I gotta say.
uCooL
Smash Ace
I was only able to watch the first match, but the things i would say:
TOMMY:
should be jump cancel grabbing instead of dash grabbing, i didn't see Roy grab that much so I'm not sure if he was.
both:
Throw in a few more mind games i.e. dash dancing.
PS. Can you post that epic song somewhere for download?
TOMMY:
should be jump cancel grabbing instead of dash grabbing, i didn't see Roy grab that much so I'm not sure if he was.
both:
Throw in a few more mind games i.e. dash dancing.
PS. Can you post that epic song somewhere for download?
Nitro_Hamster
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2013
- Messages
- 55
Thanks everyone for the help. I'm unfamiliar with these terms you guys use. Sorry.
As for the track, I don't know what it's called. I just downloaded iMovie on my phone and it was a default track. Sorry
As for the track, I don't know what it's called. I just downloaded iMovie on my phone and it was a default track. Sorry
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
These links should help.
"DI": http://www.ssbwiki.com/Directional_influence
"Dash Dancing": http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dash-dancing
"Mindgames": http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mindgame
"Edge-hogging": http://www.ssbwiki.com/Edge-hog
"L-canceling": http://www.ssbwiki.com/L-canceling
Nitro_Hamster
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2013
- Messages
- 55
Thanks this really helps
ShadowGanon
Smash Lord
Oops, missed a few.
"Spacing": http://www.ssbwiki.com/Spacing
All the aerials have their own little nicknames. For example, the forward air is call a f-air or fair. Respectively, the others are the shortened to n-air, b-air, u-air, and d-air. And for some characters that have a tether grabs (a grab that can grab ledges or hit people while in the air) there are z-airs.
"Spacing": http://www.ssbwiki.com/Spacing
All the aerials have their own little nicknames. For example, the forward air is call a f-air or fair. Respectively, the others are the shortened to n-air, b-air, u-air, and d-air. And for some characters that have a tether grabs (a grab that can grab ledges or hit people while in the air) there are z-airs.
As a rookie trying to improve myself, I found solace in a quote from Mango (winner of Evo 2013). When asked how to improve, he listed several different mindsets and conditions, and above all he mentioned "Melee is ****ing hard." Just don't let the difficult of improving get to your head.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Mango also said "[PM] is okay... just play Melee instead."
Role Model Status: Questionable
Role Model Status: Questionable
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
You can always try the KDJ method.
Vashimus
Smash Master
Does your brother taunt after every kill no matter how obvious and unimpressive? Would've slapped him in the face.
HyperrCrow
Emotional Reality
10/10 method proven to work
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Just money match every living thing in the building. I JV3'd a poinsettia last week.
Phuriate
Smash Rookie
You're lucky that you have practice partner potential in your brother. I'd be very careful with dash attacks and not use them too much. As someone else stated above, there are different ways to recover with each character and they usually give you more distance than jump and Up B.
I'd also recommend learning dash dancing and wave dashing to mix up both your approaches and your spacing. Chuck in some L- cancels and you're good to go. These will make aerial moves slightly safer!
I'd also recommend learning dash dancing and wave dashing to mix up both your approaches and your spacing. Chuck in some L- cancels and you're good to go. These will make aerial moves slightly safer!
Ginge
Smash Ace
I do this. But it's out of habit from my Melee days when fighting computers in Single Player modes. It got you that extra 100 points for Instant Poser. And I know it's a horrible habit. Any time I play someone, it's done by reflex. But I apologize to the person I'm playing and say it's nothing personal.